“name five of their songs” questions person A’s (the one wearing the band t-shirt) knowledge of the band.
“name five women who trust you” questions person B’s (the one who asked the 1st question) relationships with women in their life.
therefore “name five women who trust you” is much more loaded than “name five of their songs”, making it a response that is, perhaps, too rude and unnecessary. although, assuming person B asked person A to name the songs unprompted (this is probably what usually happens), this could be an appropriate counter-question as sometimes a ruder response is necessary when dealing with annoying people.
People who have only just met me typically ask if I have kids (even though they rarely ask my husband the same question). And when I say that I don’t, 80% of those people think that “Why not?” is an appropriate follow-up. And about half of them will go on about how having kids is great and I should really do it and that someday I’ll change my mind.
Now, I made a choice not to have kids. It’s not a difficult subject for me, even though it’s annoying to have strangers insinuate that I don’t know myself well enough to make that decision. But I have several loved ones who have suffered miscarriages and fertility issues, and I know that they feel really uncomfortable answering that question.
So right around the time I turned 35, my standard response became, " You know, when a woman gets to be a certain age and she doesn’t have kids, there’s usually a reason, and she usually doesn’t want to discuss it with strangers."
That usually stops those people in their tracks. And I hope it has stopped at least one of them from asking a really invasive question to a person who’s overly sensitive about the fact that they can’t have kids.
All that to say that humoring someone and naming the five songs (or saying that you can’t) out of politeness just reiterates that they were correct to act as a gatekeeper. Pointing out how rude the question is might actually change their behavior in the future.
And I hope it has stopped at least one of them from asking a really invasive question to a person who’s overly sensitive about the fact that they can’t have kids.
For having this mindset, you deserve all the good things in life
Makes sense
To be fair, you actually don’t know if you’d be happier with kids since you don’t, you know, have any kids.
And now imagine you do have kids and actually know that you were happier before …
Thats a bummer. You should get out of there, kids can tell when a parent doesnt want them.
Don’t worry, this was just hypothetical. I actually love my kids.
I approve this emotional roller coaster, it had a good ending!
Its always fucking unprompted
I had it happen once with Eluveitie. Fuck me for not remembering song names in ancient Gaulish I guess.
My sister was wearing a Harry Potter shirt and, in a grocery store, got confronted by some random girl that got super excited about it, and she showed my sister her tattoo of the Deathly Hallows. My sister had no idea what it was cause she never read the books and didn’t finish the movies, but she enjoys the shirt cause our mom loves the Harry Potter universe. The girl got all sorts of upset and threw some judgy looks at her. My sister doesn’t wear the shirt anymore.
Post just reminded me of that story, not trying to make a point or anything, just want to join in on the discussion.
Inb4 anti-JK Rowling commentary, you’d be preaching to the choir.
This is why people should either left harmless stranger alone or ask politely before assuming something about said stranger.
Idk, I’m fine with strangers engaging with others in public. We’re missing a genuine sense of community. I do feel that with more of this type of engagement, people won’t be so awkward when it goes in an unexpected route and maybe we’ll develop more kindness for one another.
I have been known to be too optimistic, though.
The comments on this post are examples why there are so few women on Lemmy lol.
I’m so disappointed by these comments. It is a very specific situation, why do they all take this so personally and think it is an attack against all men?
These comments remind me very much of the bear vs men “debate”
deleted by creator
Yep
It’s a vicious cycle.
It’s a big reaso why !WomensStuff@lazysoci.al is women only, the misogynistic types can’t come in and troll us. And they HATE that
My job includes doing a lot of events on college campuses, so I see a lot of t-shirts for classic rock bands. I see a Dark Side of the Moon shirt at nearly every event. I’m a huge lifelong musician and music lover, so I often ask if they’ve listened to that album. If they have, we have a nice discussion about Pink Floyd. If not, I encourage them to give it a listen, because it is an album that has literally changed people’s lives.
One girl told me she hadn’t heard it, but her GRANDMOTHER told her it was the greatest album ever made. First of all: Grandmother? That hurt. Secondly, I told her grandma may be right, go listen to that album.
Recently, someone was wearing an Abby Road shirt, so I asked. They turned out to be a huge Beatles fan, and we had a nice conversation about it.
OTOH, one girl had on a Kiss shirt, so I asked her, and she didn’t even know that Kiss was a band. She just liked the shirt.
Not everyone asking is looking to start an argument. Often we are just older music fans who are thrilled to see young people embracing the great rock music of the classic era, and want to talk to them about it. Engage those older music lovers, they may be able to tell you about other albums or artists you might like, or tell cool stories about shows they’ve been to. In my case, I worked for many years on the record biz, and have lots of stories of personal meetings and backstage experiences with truly legendary musicians. Young music lovers enjoy my stories, but if you responded with “name 5 women who trust you,” I’d just write you off as a defensive, confrontational jerk, and ignore you. No fun stories for you.
This is lovely and wholesome, but you’re not the type of person the post is about.
Edit: sorry I just realised my comment was kinda glib, so let me elaborate. You didn’t specify but I assumed you approached those women with a friendly air, having a genuine desire to have a conversation with them as equals, and said something like “oh I love that album, have you listened to it?” Putting yourself in their shoes, compare that to a guy who approaches them aggressively, having a deep seated resentment for all women, and lashes out with “pretending you like that band huh? Prove it then, name 5 of their songs!”
Thank you for a common sense response to my post. The problem is that ALL standard-issue white boomer men like me have become the enemy, and we all take the blame for assholes who would behave poorly no matter what their sex, age, race, etc.
I have become somewhat activist about sweeping generalizations about people. It isn’t right when MAGA Nazis disparage undocumented immigrants as a whole, and it isn’t right when young people or women, etc. disparage older white men as a whole. Most of us are decent reasonable people, it’s just that the jerks are far louder, so they get the attention.
As a standard-issue white boomer man we should be mad at the assholes for being assholes and not the people who want to avoid the assholes.
Those assholes make us look bad, and there’s not really anything we can do but speak up if and when we see it.
That’s the thing. I’ve never actually seen it in real life. Only in videos.
Just spent four days at a metal festival, people are going to be excited if you have a shirt of a band they wanna watch too. Spent a bunch of time talking to people about the band shirt i was wearing. There where women involved and people of all ages. It was brilliant. At some point one guys asked around the table what our favorite songs where. No weird "stop a random and demand 5 songs. "I sometimes think this is an america-only occurance.
This was disappointing to read. This post was talking about a specific type of person that was not you, it was not about “how all older white men are the enemy,” and you took it personally. When someone gently told you that you weren’t being targeted, you doubled down and got even more defensive.
I’m sorry, but no one was making sweeping generalizations. We’re talking about a very specific situation that was never stated to be all men.
I don’t understand how your feelings are hurt by a post that had nothing at all to do with you. Judging from your comment, you were never one of the bad ones this post was calling out. It’ll be okay. And there may be other situations where it makes sense to talk about blanket distrust of men that might make life harder for genuinely good guys, though it’s not relevant in this post specifically.
But do you understand how offensive it comes off to equate MAGA Nazis on the same level as mens’ feelings being hurt? The rule of law is being ignored, people are being disappeared, we’re moving closer to Gilead, and the Lemkin Institute issued a genocide warning regarding MAGA blood libel and trans people. How are hurt feelings in any way comparable?
I wish we could have one post in a woman-centric community sharing difficult situations without one of the good men lashing out because they felt personally attacked.
“Boomer” isnt restricted to age. Its a mindset.
Consider finding another word for “Boomer mindset” or just use the full phrase if you wish to be widely understood.
Ok boomer.
The difference is you’re asking a legitimate question, while the original post is a test.
I think the German saying „Der Ton macht die Musik.“ fits very well here. There is a massive difference between you bringing it up as an conversation starter and an incel jerk using it as a challenge.
There’s a difference between oh cool “i love that band, do you like it too?” and “name 5 songs” where the implication is that you assume they can’t and are fake
honestly Ive listened to DSOTM, and while I like the songs, it doesnt feel life changing to me
The Wall however…
The Wall is my favorite album of all time, but DSOTM is still special. I only remember seeing two album covers for the first time - Sgt Pepper, and DSOTM.
Back in the 70s and 80s, I worked in record stores, and DSOTM sold multiple times, every single day, even though it had been out for years, and they had three subsequent albums. I knew people who played it every day, and had to buy a new copy every year. I knew plenty of people who came to love music and record collecting after they first heard DSOTM, and it became their favorite album. It changed lots of lives.
Obscured by Clouds
Atom Heart Mother
Not bad, but not their very best. The Big 4: DSOTM, WYWH, Animals, The Wall are the peak with Meddle and The Final Cut as Honorable Mentions.
Coincidentally, I just listened to something vaguely floydy today. Tangerine Dream’s first album. Electronic Meditations.
Then we must agree to disagree.
WYWH, yeah sure, on my top 5 list. And meddle, sure. And ummagumma and zabriski point.
But ya, those others, not so much.
That said.
Who do you like that’s modern with a similar vibe? Some of M83, BOC for me maybe
Try mid-70s Yes - The Yes Album, Close to the Edge, Fragile.
Also Rush, Tool, Emerson Lake & Palmer (Brain Salad Surgery).
Funnily enough, in your eagerness to rewrite the post to fit your own assumptions, you ignored the premise of the comments and the actual issue, proving the point entirely.
Then you doubled down, just quality all around 💯👌
This is how to be a decent person. I’m glad there are people like you in the world.
And yes the grandmother comment would have definitely hurt… oof.
I once knew a girl who shaved her head bald. Her default response to “Does the carpet match the drapes?” was “That depends, is my head bleeding?”
How often is she asked that question though?
Isn’t once enough ?
OP said it was their “default response” which suggests this happens often which seems weird.
I can’t really assess whether that question is common, because I am a man and no equivalent of it exists in french, my native language. So I would trust the commenter above that this is a common enough occurrence that their friend has a default response for it
I was a doorman at a popular niteclub, she was out partying damn near every weekend for a while, I saw it happen twice in person.
Drunk people arent all that witty and they are very predictable.
Blonde and ginger women get asked plenty.
I can easily see a shaved head elicit the same dubious approach.
Any woman I’ve ever talked with has their fair share of weird, inappropriate crap thrown their way, this just par for the course.Using my powers of induction: “mmm… often enough to need a default answer.”
You’d be sickened to your core if you heard the kind of vile shit women get asked on the regular. Im on a certain kink website and it’s actually crazy seeing the sexual harassment on display.
This sounds like a US thing.
People just don’t go to other people saying some random shit where I’m from. Unless they’re crazy, beggars, or tourists from the US. If you come to anorher person and don’t start your sentence with “excuse me” or “sorry”, you’re getting ignored.
It’s not common but I have had this weird interaction once:
Stop at random convenience store for a drink, take drink to counter, cashier looks up, sees my Dave Matthews Band shirt, and while doing the transaction for my drink says:
“I know that band! I hate that band! Take your shit and get out!”
It was confusing as hell. Who the fuck hates the Dave Matthews Band? 🤷🏻♂️
Personally, can’t stand them, but I support people listening to what they enjoy and the musical tastes of others shouldn’t dictate what anyone else enjoys. Music is art and no piece of art is universal.
Satellite is a solid track, though.
The gate keeping in anything, music or otherwise has always been lame. I want to meet and talk to people who are passionate about things I don’t know about and can talk to me about that. I’ve always found the “you can’t like this…” Mentality annoying.
What a weird story. And what did he do, refill the shit tank on the bus with waste so it was full when they checked afterwards, or did he swap plates to a different bus? I don’t deny this guy was responsible, but that’s a strange detail.
I also can’t stand DMB his voice is obnoxious and all the songs sound the same. Obviously idgaf if you like them and it doesn’t change how I feel about people just dont invite me to one of his shows.
I do.
That’s because it’s a straw-man. Unless someone has serious social deficiencies, this doesn’t happen. The experience is 99% ignore, 0.9% might get “like your shirt”, or “cool band”, 0.1% some weirdo - who would have found something else anyway if it wasn’t your shirt.
It’s a type of negging. I can guarantee you women wearing band shirts riding a subway, at a bar, etc, have been asked this kind of question with negative ulterior motives.
The post doesn’t make any sense unless you already know that this is a trope passed around by organized manipulators. It sounds like it could be excused as friendly smalltalk from a fellow fan wanting to connect.
Unless someone has serious social deficiencies
social deficiencies like "being a raging misogynist to the point that literally anything a woman does is percieved as lying in some way?
because those guys are everywhere, and they do shit like this all the time. in this very thread even.
It doesn’t happen in the US either. These posts are made up social media rage bait.
Both people in this made up conversation sounds like douches.
I’ve seen it happen when I was in high school. It was usually a call out between friends and 90% of the time it was a led zeppelin shirt. Never seen it between two strangers on the street though
Shower comeback energy
Nice notion, but won’t work.
Those people will happily list every women they know, however distant.
Many men don’t even have a concept for this kind of “trust”.Just what kind of trust you need? Many trust me, they also think I’m a moron and look down on me.
My girlfriend trusts me pretty much with her life, I think. Her mom, trusts me not to rob their house since I have a key (she lives with her parents) All the women I have a work related relationship with trust me at least to the extent of being in the same room together, I’m sure.
So yeah, not hard to think of people who have an amount of trust to say the very least, but yeah, I too wonder how much trust the question is really asking about.
It’s just like saying “I could care less” - pretty sure a lot of women I know COULD trust me less, than they currently do. Which means there is at least a minimal amount of trust there.
Who gives you the right to challenge if someone is truly “trusted” or not? You don’t know the person or the people they are citing, so you are just convicting men without any evidence at all.
Not OP, but men tell us themselves. They tell us when we’re in a relationship and they say that no one else ever understood them like we do. They tell us when we see them talk about their loneliness across the internet. To deny it is to deny the pain that so many men admit for themselves, albeit only when in private or anonymous spaces.
A lot of men don’t have this deep trust in their lives, and I say this not out of malice but out of sympathy and concern. You deserve to know the kind of trust referenced here.
Valid, but you still can’t assume that’s the experience for EVERY man. Plenty of men are 100% trusted by those around them. My father was one of them. I have never spoken to anyone who didn’t view my father with true respect, including my mother. Trustworthy men exist, but women are taught to NEVER trust ANY man, no matter what. And BTW, plenty of women aren’t trustworthy either.
If we can ever get the political issues in this country settled to some extent (wishful thinking), we need to focus on the war between the sexes.
you still can’t assume that’s the experience for EVERY man.
Yep, which is why the rest of us are using words like “many,” “most,” and “a lot of.”
Ohh! How nice! I was wondering why if I would ever have to block someone on here!
Is that comeback considered “good”? Why? It doesn’t even make any sense.
The sort of men who come out with phrases like that are (almost universally) arseholes. Having a default response, that can be rolled out quickly, and hit at emotional sore spots is useful.
As for why it works, if they are willing to come out with that line, then either a massively misogynistic, or badly socially stunted and rude. Both will drive women away aggressively (and likely a lot of male friends).
How often does that line happen? I can definitely see “What’s your favorite song/album?”, that’s just making conversation based on a common interest. And it can be kinda disappointing if you thought you were gonna get to talk about a band you like, but the person just liked the design and hasn’t even heard them.
But “Name 5 songs”? I thought that just happened in memes.
What do you think the memes were based on? Gatekeeping is a real thing, and the “name 5 songs” is a genuine thing they’d to to “test” people as “real” fans.
Seemed mostly like “What’s your favorite song by them?” getting exaggerated, for the most part. I’m not saying gatekeeping never happens, I just wouldn’t expect it to be anywhere near as common as sincere attempts to strike up conversation with a fellow fan.
I think how common it is depends on your gender. It’s less common now that the gatekeeping assholes are shamed for it, but still.
It’s a bit of a weaponised meme. A small number of guys will use it as either a put down, or a really bad attempt at a negging pickup line. Unfortunately, they are the sort to do it to a depressing number of women, without thinking that maybe they are the arsehole, not the women turning him down.
It’s also quite dependent on the demographic. E.g. It’s far more likely to come up at music festivals etc.
The kind of scene where one person is excited to meet a fan and the other just liked the shirt can be so awkward and sad for everyone involved :(
But sometimes you make friends anyway!
It does only primarily happen in memes. I’m 50, lived a very unsheltered life and never once heard someone ask something so stupid in the flesh.
Not to discount your personal experience, just offering a different one, but people pretty regularly used to gatekeep in this way to me, I’ve been asked the “name 5 songs” question or some variant of it at least a dozen times when I was in school, it slowed significantly down in college and adulthood though.
I will note however that prior to my transition I read these things as “male social purity tests” and post transition I read them as “teenage boys need to be right so bad they’ll attack anyone for anything” and I think a lot of this comes from our society ignoring the emotional needs for validation among young men and boys, causing them to lash out in this at potential friends who they see as a target for humiliation, instead of bringing these people closer.
Are you a woman? It might also be something that developed during very young gen X/millennial generation, because it was at that point I believe the band shirt trend escaped the “die hard fan” category into just general audience category. Maybe it’s location based, or appearance based. If you don’t “look the part” whatever that means to the person, you’re a suspected “poser.”
I’m younger than you and am a woman and can confirm this has happened to me on multiple occasions. I had an ex that liked band merch and I often wore their clothes out when I stayed over and just kinda kept them because they looked cool. I was generally happy to say I didn’t know the band, but it happened enough times that I started telling people I got the merch off a corpse. It was generally a left field enough response that they didn’t try to continue speaking to me. I can’t remember the number of times it happened but it was enough to prompt me to change my response from “it’s my boyfriends” to something to make the conversation stop.
Him asking her to name 5 songs is nasty, it shows he’s a bully whose looking to embarrass her. That indicates women are less likely to trust him
Still, you can expect a comeback to not be a complete offtop.
Yes, the first phrase has a goal of embarrassing the owner of the t-shirt, but comeback in the style of “yo momma is so fat that…” is embarrassing to the giver, not to the receiver.
Even “Can YOU name 5 songs?” would be much-much better.
That’s totally misrepresenting it. And you know that.
I’m wondering if maybe they don’t know that? Seems like they completely missed the point lol
Eh, misrepresenting?
“Can YOU name 5 songs?” would be much-much better.
Holy shit, no it is not. This is like dousing a grease fire with water.
If someone is coming at you with a “prove you’re a real fan” question, they’ve got friends or they’ve got a video camera. The last thing you want to do is appear desperate.
Because the kind of guy that asks random people to prove their fandom probably does not have many close friends.
Even more so the point is that they’re a creep.
Men policing women’s clothing is creepy, or talking down to other people as gatekeepers … also creepy.
The response is pointing out they’re a creep.
I hope my fellow men can understand.
deleted by creator
Because it’s an asshole thing to say. Any comeback will be good.
Agree. I’m thinking “why do you even care whether I’m a big fan or not?”, or “I don’t need to prove anything to you”, would work better
That still leaves you as the subject. The meme response puts the focus on the asshole.
I wouldn’t engage with someone who did that. Win!
ITT the guy in the meme gatekeeps women’s day-to-day experience with men
Suddenly realizing how many women I knew have come out as non-binary “Uhhh, uhhh… Well my wife? Wait, no, um, my friend? No, they’re not- uh,”
I live in fear of this type of person, especially as someone who listens to metal which tends to be male-dominated. I’m an album person and I’m not always checking the table of contents when I listen. There are bands I’ve been a fan of for over a decade that I don’t have five songs memorized for. I love these bands and I don’t think I’m fake for liking them or wearing a shirt.
My brain just doesn’t respond well to those type of questions anyway. Most brains don’t, which is why those ‘gotcha’ street interview videos are so common. Most of those people aren’t idiots, they’re just panicking.
“Name 5 nations” “…uhhhhh, Antarctica, Canada, Texas, London, Taiwan”
“Oof, two out of five, no money for you, just public shame.”
My daughter taught me a good response for when people ask random questions that are intended to be passive aggressive, or just terrible comments from a nasty person in general. You just respond “YUR cool” and nothing else. It actually stops most people in their tracks because they don’t know how to respond.
Just remember you don’t have to prove yourself to anyone. People that gate-keep like this aren’t worth your time anyways.
I (~40 year old dude) had a similar thought when I saw this post. I like spaceslug a lot (and I’m wearing one of their tshirts right now!) but I don’t really know individual songs. Lemanis is a great album and Memorial has some good tracks, but names? Uhhh
“Oh you are a Valkyrie fan? Name every Valkyrie in existance” meme.jpg
deleted by creator
Just tell them to fuck off, who cares about assholes
People who wear band shirts, does this actually happen?
Hey mostly men on Lemmy, does this even happen? No? Checkmate, women.
I wasn’t asking a particular gender. I was asking people in general. I don’t wear band shirts so I was curious what those who did had experienced. I’ve never witnessed it even when I was younger and band shirts were practically the dress code. The original screenshot isn’t even gendered so I’m not sure where this hostility is coming from.
The screenshot is gendered and was posted in the witchesvspatriarchy community.
The only gendered part about it was “especially as a young woman” which implies that either men or women could be asked that question. Unless something has changed recently and only women can wear band shirts now. But whatever, I’m sorry my post offended you. I didn’t intend for it to be dismissive towards women.
Nope. Every once in a long while someone will say “Nice shirt!”.
To me, a dude, who’s been wearing band shirts for the past 18 years? Never.
My girlfriend who buys band shirts at shows I take her to because she had just heard them for the first time and thought they sounded cool? Also never.
I had a person in the grocery store run up to me and recite the first half of a verse to me hoping I’d respond. I said something like “what?” as they pointed to my shirt and repeated themself. I then appropriately finished the verse and smiled.
You and I are very different people. I don’t care if I had the bands entire discography memorized, there is no way I’m rewarding that behavior.
Aww, that’s a little sad. If somebody is so jazzed about a band that they get up the courage to sing in public, I can certainly return a few bars.
I had a person come up to me at pride yesterday and blurt out something about my wardrobe. It was kind of awkward and my first response was to be defensive because I’ve received a lot of abuse in my life, but I remembered where I was and it enabled me to see that probably, this person did not mean me harm and just wanted to interact. We did and I made a new neurodivergent friend. Maybe we can both lighten the fuck up.
Maybe we can both lighten the fuck up.
Certainly couldn’t hurt… This did remind me of the time some random dude in the shampoo isle at target started a conversation with me about my watch. It’s not a particularly nice watch or anything but he had just bought one himself and was excited to talk to someone about it. It kind of weirded me out at first but it wasn’t a bad experience overall.
… no. Although 2ce when I wore death metal band t shirt while walking my dog a car started blasting one of their songs. At least I thought it was one of their songs…. I went to the show that time and saw them live and they were great so I wanted to support them by buying merch. I have a ton of shirts like that.
My friend was wearing a Ramones shirt and I asked her to name a single member of the band.
Beethoven shirt. “Name five songs”, “sure, allegro, allegro vivace, scherzo, adagio, andante cantabile.”
1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th symphonies.
Those are albums.
Beethoven only wrote 5 symphonies, the 3rd, the 5th, the 6th, the 7th and the 9th.
I’ve listened to Vital Remains’ Let Us Pray once every couple weeks for the past 15 years and can’t name one song off of the album. I can play the guitar parts along to it, half the time I can’t even remember the name of the band. This is not vital info to my brain.
I would suggest telling them to go fuck themselves and moving on.
There are very few bands I could name five songs from, even though I really like music.
