Either in regards to the current political situation, or for other reasons. What drew you to the idea of living in another country? Do you think whatever benefits it offers are really worth it, or is the grass just greener on the other side of the fence?
I’ve encouraged others to leave. I’m single and have no plans to ever have children. I don’t have people that depend on me to look out for their best interests.
That means I have the freedom to stay and fight for my country, whatever form that fight takes.
Its unrealistic. My parents have too much invesments in the US, hard to liquidate.
If my US citizenship is gone, I’d either be:
(A) Stateless, which is um… not good, too much bureaucracy to get another citizenship, and I’d have to learn a new language.
(B) If PRC wants me back, oh jeez I think that makes my asylum claim in a western country even harder, since its very difficult to “prove” my fear of persecution. And if my fears become real, it’d be too late to leave. What’s that saying: “Out of a frying pan into the burning fire”? or something, so yea that… very bad.
Country on my go-to list are:
Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Maybe other EU countries, Singapore… then idk…
These are the countries with a decent amount of Chinese Diaspora. As much as I love EU, less than 1% ethnic Chinese in some of the EU countries seems like I’d have a difficult time fitting in… idk.
I’ve considered Taiwan, but PRC is already aiming the cannons there, seems like a bad idea.
I’ve also been considering just ending it. I don’t have the will to live anymore. It’s too much…
You need help bro.
…and hookers.
Maybe spend a few days surrounded by Alt-Chicks titties while being choked on by their thighs.
It will warm up your soul.
.
Or alt-dudes, whoever makes you loose.
It was always my intention to retire overseas. Thought my wife was onboard until retirement. She suddenly told me she wanted to stay. She wanted to be near family. I sure hope this doesn’t turn into one of those, waited too long scenarios.
We hadn’t solidified where. We have both lived overseas earlier in life. I have family in Germany and could probably get German citizenship so that seemed like an obvious choice. Scandinavia seems to have the best countries, but it’s way too cold for me. We also seriously considered Equador. I prefer Europe and once you’re in, I think movement within the EU is easy.
The problem seems to be that fascism is on the rise everywhere. I guess we’ll just stay here and hope to stay under the radar. It’s a real shame, it was a great place to grow up.
When I was single and without kids I just felt untethered enough to do so.
Nowadays, politically speaking, I have more the Michael Bolton Office Space perspective. They’re the one’s who suck, why should I be the one to leave?
The problem is that the same forces that affect the US seem to affect everywhere. Look at the UK, even with their supposedly “center left” government they’ve lost arguably more freedom than the US in the form of the draconian KOSA, and will probably have a rightwing government next. The EU is trying to implement chat control. It unfortunately seems like authoritarianism all the way down, so I’ll just stay in the US and fight for liberty and justice for all.
I’m ready to pack my shit and move to Marseille tomorrow if my husband would agree to it. He’s concerned he won’t be able to learn French☹️
Honestly, we have pocket translator devices nowadays, its not that hard as it used to be.
I mean, I came to the US around 2010, and there were to smartphones to help. I bet those arriving in 2015 or later would just have the teacher use their phone to translate class instructions, or perhaps with school’s permission, use their own phone as a translator tool throughout the school, like as a transition phase before actually mastering the language.
This is a very valid concern. “I want to move my wife to the Netherlands even if she doesn’t speak the language.” Would fire red flags everywhere. Not speaking the language is isolating and gives all power to the person who does. Learning is challenging. If not, just learn before moving.
Did you read the conversation? The real move is in France.
If you are concerned about France, why did your comment only reference “the Netherlands”?
If you wanted to give an example of a country where about one-third of people speak English, you could have used Italy or maybe Poland (“However, other surveys show that over 50% of Poles can speak English. Another study shows that 89% of Polish students are learning and/or can speak English.”).
Because it’s a conversation… That’s how conversations work, you don’t repeat every piece of context in every sentence.
Sorry that went over your head.
I feel this strongly. My partner is very resistant to moving to the Netherlands despite the many, many reasons that doing so would be better than staying in the US
Have y’all taken any trips there? Honestly just living out of an airbnb, taking the chance to go to the grocery store and cook at home a few times, (like you are “living that life” in the smallest sense) and taking day trips with the trains is what eased my family’s fears.
Arriving in a beautiful airport, walking downstairs to the train station, learning that the paper train tickets can be tapped to let you in (and later just the credit card), then being at our bnb in like half an hour without stepping foot in a car was so magical to us. Then we stopped by the grocery store (surprised at there being 2 within a 5 min walk), and we noticed that the prices of everything was a fraction of what we normally pay, but also tastier and healthier. Then compounded over the next few days with day trips to other cities, seeing actual historic places (unlike the US, at least the west), and seeing that everywhere just has… a better quality of life-- Strictly speaking from locality to parks, grocers, cafes, and the very low risk freedom of movement without a car.
It also helps that their english literacy rate is equal or better than the US… I’m learning dutch so I can assimilate better when I move, and you’d probably need to know it for many jobs, but luckily it isn’t too difficult to learn. Hardest part is finding resources imo, but the discord for learning dutch has weekly practice sessions.
I’ve visited before, yes, and I know exactly what you mean lol. I felt the same way when I was there, the freedom of movement and quality of life about everything is so incredible that you just have to experience it yourself to believe it. I think visiting with my partner would help, but that’s a lot of money at a relatively short timescale to prepare in case things get really bad. We could do it, but…
What’s the Discord you’re using to learn Dutch? I’ve actually been “learning” for a few years just using Duolingo and I’ve been pretty lazy over the last year so I’ve stalled. Netherlands was actually always my goal before I even started dating my partner, which is partly contributing to our problems I think.
I’m in the same boat. Our while lives we talked about moving overseas. Once we reached the point where we could do it, my wife didn’t want to.
I hate to say but, if things got bad enough, I might just go without her.
That’s very sad, I’m sorry. I hope it doesn’t come to that for you
Me too. Ironically this very site could be my downfall. I haven’t been very favorable to the current administration.
I’ve looked into it deeply enough to realize that I probably can’t afford it.
So I contribute in ways that I can.
Seen a few YT vids on my feed of Americans going to Albania as a first step recently.
I was born and raised here, but I’ve always had an affinity for my grandfather’s ancestry in the UK.
I intend to stay here and fight for my homeland, but if things are at an obviously insurmountable point and I have to fall back, I wouldn’t mind my grandfather’s homeland.
I think the UK is right behind us. You might have to keep moving.
I’m planning on moving to Uruguay where I can live on half my salary and half my hours and not have to worry about Burgerland anymore.
What drew me to moving out of the country was the idea of not investing in a country when I don’t think it’s worth the investment.
A few benefits I’m looking forward to is a more close-knit community, cheap healthcare, and free college.
I just moved from the US to a small European country and it’s much more of a mixed bag than you could imagine.
I don’t want to dox myself too much, but I moved from a very tech-centric city to a smaller nation that’s not going to be one of your 1st or probably even 2nd guesses.
I didn’t move due to politics, although I’d be lying if I said they didn’t have an iron grip on my thoughts as I spent too much time unemployed. It was the tech industry that did me in. I had spent the past decade clawing my career out of the gutter only to have it slam-dunked right into the dumpster by a bunch of gormless tech CEOs who don’t see the value in anything. I would’ve happily stayed and voted, fought and gone down with the whole fascist ship to protect my trans, queer, and minority friends. But I seriously doubted my ability to continue to support myself in that environment, nevermind anyone else.
Maybe these are all just excuses, but when it came time to consider relocating, tearing myself out by the roots and losing all my friends and connections for the sake of finding someplace new I could afford to support myself, I cast a wider net than all that. There was no place in the US I wanted to be more, so I looked further.
And still the opportunities came up short. Everywhere is hurting. I took my modest savings and started a college program. It was an “easier” foot in the door and a chance to upskill myself and hopefully compete better in the market (so I hope, so I tell myself). I cannot stress how difficult and expensive every step of this process has been.
You can tell yourself it doesn’t matter, but for as long as I live I’ll never outrun the guilt or shame for what ultimately feels like a very selfish action. My therapist says I need to treat this as a reward for positioning myself in a way so as to even be able to take advantage of an opportunity like this, but that really sugarcoats it. There’s no even guaranteeing this will pay off. There’s no guarantee I eventually find a job or stay here, I may well end up back in the States, only this time without any of the possessions I gave up to get here.
You can’t take stuff. I mean not unless you’re RICH. It’s just costly and takes so much time and effort. Are you going to pay to keep it in storage while you’re gone? With the intent that you might never be back? Shipping things over is subject to so much regulation, I couldn’t even take my computer with me, they turned it down at the airport and I had to send it home with family. Maybe they’ll be able to ship it for me some day. In the end I was giving things away, throwing the last bits of my life into the dumpster just to be able to close out the apartment.
So much paperwork. ALL OF THE PAPERWORK! And so little guidance and no guarantees. I’m still waiting on things to be finalized and while there’s no reason they shouldn’t be, that uncertainty hangs over my head like a knife. Living on savings for now and they’ll hold awhile, but inflation has hit here pretty hard, too. Everything is expensive. And now I’m so much farther away from any support systems I may have had.
I don’t want to sound too thankless, this has been a wonderful opportunity. I love getting to see a new country and acclimate to a new culture. My head is a bit clearer without having all the politics cluttering it up but I assure you watching things from afar while I still have so many friends and family affected is no comfort at all.
It’s not an easy out. It’s not a golden ticket. For a lot of people it’s just not an option at all. I’ll die furious at what they’ve done to me, to my life, to my friends and everyone I love, to my country. Best I can hope for is some day I have more to bring home for the fight …
Sounds like Estonia. But in any case, when you move somewhere, it’s what you make of it. It’s definitely hard at first, but once you do get settled in, you may grow to enjoy it. All I can say is make sure you get out and experience the culture and really what they have to offer. If you are just living there, then why does it matter if you do that in the states or elsewhere? Politics wouldn’t interfere with any of that. You would still go to work to make money just to survive. You can do that anywhere.
For sure, and I do appreciate the advice. I didn’t want to sound too negative, it has been lovely here 😉
But I just want to communicate to others looking to get out that it’s not so simple as picking up and leaving. It’s very difficult and much like a plant that has been uprooted and transplanted, there’s more trauma involved than you’d think. As you pointed out, it does take that active effort to make something of it, it’s not just a simple continuation of the life you had only somewhere else.
I moved to Taiwan asking with my entire family and 2 dogs. It’s the best decision of my life. It’s a very young democracy and the government really cares about the people.
Anyone can be a business owner and the infrastructure is setup that way. Meet this Hawaiian guy that moved here. He couldn’t really find a job since he couldn’t speak the language. He decided to buy a food cart for 500usd and sell tacos and burritos downstairs where he lives. This was 3 years ago and this year he opened up a store.
Taiwan is going to get bombed by china.
Why not another country?
Bombing Taiwan defeats like 90% of the purpose of owning Taiwan - the chip fabs.
Hence why the owners have dynamite strapped to them for self destructions.
China would rather take it over the way they took over Hong Kong initially - corruption.
China have always controlled HongKong, PLA is literally already there.
We are not going to get bombed. At least it’s not yet a concern. China needs Taiwan to be the scapegoat. Our tiny island is the reason for their citizens agony, not the PRC.
Yeah. Don’t get me wrong, fuck China, but their imperialism isn’t always like western imperialism. Here, we see an “enemy,” and they better get ready for some democracy. China seems more willing to engage with maintaining an oppressive opinion without necessarily acting on it. Personally I think it has more to do with the fact that western nations are still democracies; if someone offers to put nuts on the table for established propaganda, they’ll usually get into political office.
Remember, democracy looks very similar to demon crazy
Moving to another country is a lot of work. Europe is stereotypically seen as having a lot of practical benefits like walkable cities and generally sane culture around stuff like healthcare. America is a big country though and blue states offer a lot of the same benefits.
Not really to the same levels, and federal fuckery seeps into everything nationwide.
Back alley abortions common in the EU? Because we’re less than one lifetime from the age of septic pregnancy wards and could easily go back if mifepristone gets banned
I don’t wish to but I’ve thought about it, mainly as an emergency exit in case I get targeted by state violence. But barring that I don’t plan to leave.
Unfortunately, I’m as home grown as they come so I don’t have any other citizenship I would qualify for. And with the level of anti-immigrant sentiment happening in most of the world right now, nowhere seems like a great option. But I’ll do what I have to do if the time comes.
For now, I’d rather keep resisting tyranny here though.
I personally like the culture of my community and am very happy here. If only the thugs would leave us alone things would be great. So having to learn another culture and possibly language to assimilate into doesn’t sound very appealing. I have lived abroad before and it’s harder than I thought it would be.
But I’ll do what I have to do if the time comes.
I may already be too late, depending on how much time it actually takes to secure an opportunity for immigration. e.g. do you even have a passport? Do you belong to one of the groups the government might start targeting? In my mind, it’s clear the trump regime is going to start locking its people in, it’s really common for dictatorships.
As a former undocumented immigrant, you too are thinking inside the box, when the time comes, legally immigrating is the least of your concerns.
Immigration destination countries will generally close their borders long before they’ll start kicking their legal immigrants out en masse.
But what I was actually getting at was that at some point, the USA will probably start making it really difficult to physically leave the country. It’s the difference between going somewhere with some amount of wealth by plane or car and trying to flee on foot over a green border while being hunted by the border police.
EU passport seems like a good option.
Trouble is trying to find a job with transferable skills, being willing to pick up all my roots and move, and fitting into a community that speaks a different language, and ‘jealous passport’ countries that ask you to give up your US citizenship when you claim the new one.
Wish it was easier.
I did moved away from the states a long time ago, for reasons other then political fear. I mean I was afraid of what the US was turning in to but not like it is today. Finding a way to immigrate is a lot harder then it looks, but the EU isn’t the only option. The second part is a lot harder then it sound and it some ways easier. Picking up a second language is easier in a country where everyone is already using it. The hardest part is getting most people to stop trying to practice their English on you and to let you practice you new language on them. And the fitting in isn’t that hard if you are honestly excited about it. Don’t grumble because this isn’t the way you’re used to doing it think of it as new chance to be part of the lucky 10,000 almost every day. But picking up your roots is harder then you think everyday I’m haunted by the fact I’ll never see my old friends and my family again except through a tiny screen, never hug them, never cry on their shoulder, hell never even have them understand what my day was like because they don’t understand all the cultural clues I do. I’ve lost frames of reference to my family and it’s not something I really expected or would have been able to understand if did. It’s weird / hard to have cultural gulfs between you and your family not to have a shared pool of reference.
I wish it was easier too, but I’m glad I did it every day.
