• Kultronx@lemmygrad.ml
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    21 小时前

    I wouldn’t say revolutionary. There are likely revolutionaries in their ranks that long for a return to the USSR and unaliving Nazis is good, but I wouldn’t call it revolutionary in the way we want it to be.

    • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
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      20 小时前

      It’s revolutionary in the sense that it inflicts a heavy defeat on the imperialists and severely depletes their arsenals. Already the conflict has greatly accelerated the global transition to multipolarity, encouraging Russia but also other countries in the global south that have seen how fickle of a partner the West can be, to reorient, develop alternative trading networks, and reduce their dependence on institutions and financial mechanisms controlled by the imperialist West.

      It also destabilizes Europe, one of the two main centers of Western imperialism, politically and economically. This takes pressure off of revolutionary movements in the global south and opens the door to anti-NATO and anti-EU forces in Europe to take advantage of this defeat to agitate for breaking free of these institutions of hegemonic imperialist control which are directly responsible for the severe crisis many European countries now find themselves in.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
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        19 小时前

        There’s also another aspect to this which is that the breakdown in trade with the West forced Russia to start developing economic ties with the Global South. Developing countries are now directly benefiting from Russian resources and technology. Russia helping Niger build a nuclear reactor is a great example of this dynamic. So, while the West being weakened forced to pour their remaining resources into a futile war, the rest of the world is enjoying an improved economic situation as a result.

          • TrueStalinistPatriot@lemmygrad.ml
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            8 小时前

            Russia can both oppose western imperialism and be imperialist itself is it too hard to comprehend?

            Napoleon was both a monarch and subjugated other monarchies. Just because he overthrew european monarchies doesn’t mean he was anti-monarchy

            Anti-european monarchy sure but not anti-monarchy in general

            • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
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              50 分钟前

              Russia can both oppose western imperialism and be imperialist itself is it too hard to comprehend?

              https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Imperialism

              In certain circles, there have been attempts to paint the Russo-Ukrainian conflict as a war between two imperialist countries, the United States and Russia. Similarly to the above Chinese example, this is incorrect.

              Unlike the western powers, Russia does not have any capital monopolies that control the world market or supply chains. Russia having Gazprom and an extraction industry doesn’t mean they are imperialist. The essence of imperialism is monopolistic on a global scale, which is precisely why Russia is not imperialist, not whether they have capital generally. A perfect example of monopolies that share the world amongst themselves is the West, specifically the United States in their control of the WEF, IMF, World Bank, and UN Security Council, allowing the western powers to enforce this dominance through jingoistic foreign policy, embargoes, and hindering the development of other countries. Neither Russia nor China has anywhere close to this level of global power through finance capital.

              Russia lacks finance capital and division of the world’s resources. It only has 4 of the top 100 corporations in the world and 6 of the top 500. 82% of Russian exports are raw materials, including 58% oil, 11% metal, and 6% food. In 2017, Russia imported $106.2 billion worth’ of machine goods and only exported $12.8 billion. Russia does not have any of the top 100 corporations in terms of capital export, and most Russian capital export is capital flight to tax havens. Russia only controls 0.7% of the world’s wealth and has much less wealth per adult than the United States ($8,843 vs $336,528). Russia has intervened militarily in other countries such as Yugoslavia, Georgia, Ukraine, and Syria, but not to seize natural resources like imperialist countries do.[8]

              Note: This doesn’t mean Russia is run by anti-capitalists. It just means they are not acting in an imperialist way thus far. When people here talk of support for Russia, they usually say “critical support,” i.e. something like: support them insofar as they act in an anti-imperialist manner, but don’t take the rest of it for granted as being on the side of the working class.

              As far as I’m aware, much of the burgeoning multipolar world is not explicitly anti-capitalist. China is explicitly run by communists, but even it is not trying to scold other countries about their capitalism, so to speak, as far as I know. This makes a kind of sense if you consider it from the standpoint that China and others are shifting the balance of power largely via trade relationships. If AES states were to all say “capitalist bad” and refuse to deal with them, they would cede power over trade and become easily isolated and encircled.

              The shift away from western hegemony is not clean and simple, but it is necessary to support sovereignty and self determination in countries that would otherwise face “regime change” and subsequent hollowing out from the west. So far, Russia seems pretty consistent on supporting sovereignty against that brutality, in spite of being run by capitalists, given its ties with AES states and others who just want self determination in the face of the western empire. Given their capitalist leadership, I suppose one could ask if this some kind of long game opportunism, so that they can turn it into their own predatory relationship down the road? But that’s speculative reaching next to the realities of what is going on right now and those countries they are dealing with are plenty capable of analyzing the relationship as they go and keeping an eye out for malign evolutions in it.

            • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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              41 分钟前

              @yogthos@lemmy.ml

              Russia did indeed nearly make a deal with Ukraine in Istanbul before the west told Ukraine that they wouldn’t get security guarantees if that happened. From that point on it became an actual war that Russia is currently winning. The fact that you think the war is about territory shows that you have absolutely no clue regarding the subject you’re opining on.

              Meanwhile, Russia successfully reorienting its economy away from the west shows just how irrelevant the west has become now. Russia’s economy is now growing faster than any western economy. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68823399

              The World Bank just reclassified Russia as a high income country https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/opendata/world-bank-country-classifications-by-income-level-for-2024-2025

              я не из калининграда@lemmy.ml (not a native english speaker, I believe)

              i do not support the current administrations internal actions, as capitalism has brought nothing but injustice, suffering, poverty, crime and corruption. but i absolutely do support its foreign policy, especially regarding the ukrainian question. the putin government has evolved to become one of the most effective anti-imperialist forces on the planet and even if you ignore the terrible nature of the terrorist zelensky-regime one has to be grateful to our military for fighting the biggest enemy of mankind, america.

              so lets detail the happenings that led to the current situation:

              (it may be important to note that the current russian administration pushes a slightly different narrative due to sadly being a right wing state)

              banderite collaborators parading in front of nazi officers the banderites (see picture), members of the fascist “organization of ukrainian nationalists” led by stepan andreyevich bandera were a gang of rapists and murderers who collaborated with the invading german hordes and assisted them by conducting acts of terror against civilians. It is important to note that popular support for them was close to zero. after the victory of the heroic red army, the majority of those parasites fled to the west, predominantly to canada. they received funding from american and british intelligence agencies, which were more than happy to welcome “former” nazis into their own anti-communist ranks. another subset of the banderites remained in the ukrainian ssr and conducted a campaign of terror and sabotage against the civilian population. their bloody deeds were supported by the cia and its european puppet agencies through the so called “operation aerodynamic”.

              spoiler

              referendum on the preservation of the ussr. its results were ignored by the anti-communists

              After the illegal and undemocratic dissolution of the ussr, the leaders of those fascist gangs were glorified by the ukrainian far-right, with support from the cia. efforts to further their “rehabilitation” were primarily directed by nazi expatriates in canada. outlets such as voice of america portrayed them as “heroes”. (aerodynamic, some of these were manufactured in the U.S under Operation Mockingbird like a lot of U.S state dept. bullshit)

              election before cia intervention. this division between neonazi northwest and pro-russian southeast is visible to this day

              in 2004, the west sabotaged the ukrainian presidential elections and installed their puppet, viktor andreyevich yushchenko, through a color revolution. he was a terrible leader, not only dismantling the remaining aspects of the ukrainian economy and managing to make life even more miserable than it already was, but also granting “hero of ukraine” status to banderite leaders and holocaust perpetrators stepan bandera and roman iosifovich shukhevich.

              (not adding picture of 2014 ukrainian nazis since you have already said you believe in that)

              in 2014, america and the west orchestrated another coup, this time not even bothering to hide the involvement of neo-nazis. the new regime perpetrated unspeakable atrocities against the russian population, whom it consideres “subhuman,” as well as against ukrainian anti-fascists. in odessa alone, 39 people were burned alive in the local trade union building.

              those developments led to the revolution in the predominantly russian populated donbass-area and the creation off the donetsk and lugansk peoples republics, as well as the referendum in crimea that led to the peninsula finally rejoining russia. from 2014 till 2022 the majority of humanitarian aid to the donbass republics came from the cprf.

              the reason for the smo is the ukrainian western-aligned nazi regime violating the minsk accords by refusing to demilitarize, trying to join the fascist nato-block and murdering russian civilians for years on end. the russian government showed itself extremely lenient, to lenient even, as any sensible politician would have staged a military intervention much earlier. if you need further proof for the tyrannical nature of the kievan regime just look at the fact that zelenskiy has banned all opposition parties in his country, refuses to hold elections and effectively rules as a military dictator. furthermore he has outlawed the russian language, made any negotiation with the russian state illegal and is currently selling whatever is left of his country to the highest bidder. combine all this with the fact that the west and its puppets need to always be opposed due to them being a cancer of humanity and you’ll get a pretty good picture of why to support the russian military.

              [Query: Do communists have to support Russia?]

              from @davel@lemmygrad.ml

              In a word, no. In a few more words, support for Russia (not Putin, as historical materialists don’t subscribe to great man theory) is only a partial, temporary, tactical one, in the context of imperialist liberation. Russia is still a capitalist state, though, so it’s a two stage strategy: first liberate colonized bourgeois states from colonizer states, and second revolution within those liberated bourgeois states.

              Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers. This occurred during Putin’s administration, which is why he is especially hated by the US. So now the support for Russia is in the context of keeping the colonizers from recolonizing it, and supporting Russia to the extent that it helps other states liberate themselves. But Russia isn’t trying to “liberate” Ukraine, at least not all of Ukraine. It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas, and it’s trying to resolve the imperialist military expansion at its border.

              Also, Ukraine really does have a fascism problem and has for a long time, and the coup government has materially supported it.

              from [@muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml] https://mronline.org/2019/01/02/is-russia-imperialist/

            • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
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              7 小时前

              Did you actually read anything of what was said in the thread i just linked? Have you read the resources that were provided there, such as: https://mronline.org/2019/01/02/is-russia-imperialist/ ? Seems like you didn’t. You continue to argue based on a false premise.

              Did you listen to the video in this post? Have you actually taken the time to understand what this conflict is about? Here are some more resources you can use to educate yourself: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/9212334

  • VaqueroRed@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 天前

    Revolutionary? I don’t think so. Progressive? Probably so given that the war in Ukraine is a NATO proxy war.

    • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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      35 分钟前

      It is if you consider the fact that the one capitalist state is breaking away from Western hegemony and imperialism of the dominant capitalist ideology thus engaging in anti-imperialism which is inherently anti-capitalist.

    • baffled_and_aghast@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 天前

      I don’t honestly recall that line, is that from when Jyotishman plays devil’s advocate?

      Anyways I think Joti does a good job of analyzing the geopolitical situation in Europe in terms of Leninism, in particular with reference to Stalin’s Foundations of Leninism, and the question of whether or not national liberation is progressive even if not explicitly socialist. The fight against western imperialism is truly the principal contradiction of our time.

      • TrueStalinistPatriot@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 天前

        I don’t honestly recall that line, is that from when Jyotishman plays devil’s advocate?

        I should’ve made it more clear. This is not a line from the discussion it’s my parody of the title

        Edit: but after watching some of this video I guess I don’t really understand the whole of this war and where it really came from. I’ll have to learn more I guess

          • TrueStalinistPatriot@lemmygrad.ml
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            21 小时前

            Might’ve been wrong to question myself there lol. Her argument revolves around “Well Russia was provoked so they’re actually fighting an anti imperialist war” and the predisposition you’ve to have in order to agree with her argument is that you believe most or at least a big part of the official Russian narrative.

            Even if Russia really was provoked and is fighting for it’s own sovereignty (by invading another country? but ok) then it’s still a capitalist nation that’s preying upon the nostalgia of its Soviet past and it’s absolutely not becoming even slightly more communist by the day. Why should I care whether it’s the thirteen colonies or the British empire that wins the American civil war?

            Stop clicking the down arrow button and answer my question

            https://www.idcommunism.com/2022/07/union-of-communists-of-ukraine-on-war-and-the-tasks-of-the-working-class.html?m=1

            • rainpizza@lemmygrad.ml
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              21 小时前

              Her argument revolves around “Well Russia was provoked so they’re actually fighting an anti imperialist war” and the predisposition you’ve to have in order to agree with her argument is that you believe most or at least a big part of the official Russian narrative.

              First of all, it is wrong to entirely dismiss the Russian side in the Ukrainian conflict. Russians have as much of a right to explain their side as the bloodthirsty West. Also, it is important to remind you that the West is not a truthful/reliable source as you think it is.

              Continuing with that thought, the information mentioned by the Russians was also echoed plenty of times by Western media. This was collected by comrades in this thread post below and it is specially tailored for people that yet operate in the western framework(just like you are doing as of now):

              Even if Russia really was provoked and is fighting for it’s own sovereignty (by invading another country? but ok) then it’s still a capitalist nation that’s preying upon the nostalgia of its Soviet past and it’s absolutely not becoming even slightly more communist by the day.

              You keep looking down on our russian comrades with this other statement. What if I told you that Russia has way more probability to become socialist again than the whole European countries(that are actively rushing into fascism)?

              It is better to take a step back on your contempt and investigate what russian comrades have achieved so far.

              • TrueStalinistPatriot@lemmygrad.ml
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                13 小时前

                West is not a truthful/reliable source as you think it is.

                You’re putting words in my mouth. Just because I don’t trust the Russian narrative doesn’t mean I trust the western narrative.

                You keep looking down on our russian comrades with this other statement. What if I told you that Russia has way more probability to become socialist again than the whole European countries(that are actively rushing into fascism)?

                It is better to take a step back on your contempt and investigate what russian comrades have achieved so far.

                So your whole argument is that I’m supposed to support Russia because it has the possibility of turning socialist? How does that dismiss ANY of the arguments against this war denouncing it as imperialist?

                Okay another argument is Ukrainian warcrimes (especially those against Donbass and part of the population that likes Russia). You obviously haven’t heard “two wrongs don’t make a right”

                The Russian bourgeoisie has taken a contradictory stance with regard to the LDPR: on the one hand, it provided military and economic aid to the Donbass republics, but on the other hand, it did not politically recognize them and did not incorporate them into the Russian Federation like Crimea, but went to recognize the legitimacy of the pro-fascist Turchinov-Poroshenko-Zelensky puppet regime and signed the Minsk agreements with this regime. This did not bring peace to the LDPR and made the war a latent state on the line of contact for eight years, allowing thus the Ukrainian government to create a strong and Nazi-motivated army that became a threat not only to the LDPR but also to Russia itself.

                https://www.idcommunism.com/2022/07/union-of-communists-of-ukraine-on-war-and-the-tasks-of-the-working-class.html?m=1 This is a statement of one of the organizations that was banned by the Ukrainian government

                • rainpizza@lemmygrad.ml
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                  2 小时前

                  You’re putting words in my mouth. Just because I don’t trust the Russian narrative doesn’t mean I trust the western narrative.

                  Oh, so you are the worst case scenario! You haven’t actually investigated anything about this conflict and just based your entire opinion on one Ukrainian “marxist” organization(out of many that there are available). If your aim is to only base your opinion in Ukrainian orgs, then I assume that you also read what the CP of Ukraine has said so far, right?

                  Establishment of the neo-Nazi regime in country, violation of generally accepted citizens’ rights and freedoms in particular linguistic were the main reasons of dangerous aggravation of the situation in country and finally led to actual loss of Crimea and fratricidal civil war, unleashed by the Kiev regime against citizens of Ukraine, living in Donetsk and Lugansk areas, to sharp deterioration of the relations with Russian Federation.

                  Ten thousand military personnel and peace citizens including children, women and elderly are died and injured. More than two million lost their homes and became internallydisplaced persons or search protection abroad. Innocent blood continues to flow. Economy of the Donbass is destroyed in large scale. The state bears huge loss. To justify crimes, committed regarding its people, neo-Nazi regime represent this started by it civil war as the war between Russia and Ukraine.

                  On February 27, 2020, the Kiev City Council by a majority of votes adopted a resolution on the celebration in Kiev of memorable dates and anniversaries. This year, Kiev will celebrate the anniversaries of the birth of Nazi killers, thugs, executioners and anti-Semites:

                  In an information message on the site of Kyiv City, they shamefully hid these anniversaries. But the head of the faction of the ultra-nationalistic party “Svoboda” Yuri Sirotyuk published the full text of the resolution.

                  Dear comrades, the Communist Party of Ukraine is asking you not to ignore this flagrant manifestation of neo-Nazism and the fact of the glorification of Nazi criminals. We urge you to disseminate this information as widely as possible in the media, from parliamentary stands and to condemn the similar practice of the Ukrainian authorities in their appeals.

                  Dear comrades and friends, we have no doubt that this decision will be used to unleash a new wave of repression against the Communist Party, its members and supporters.

                  In these circumstances, we urgently need your support!

                  Any actions and statements condemning the criminal decision of the Constitutional Court and the repression of the ruling regime will be useful to us!

                  After reading your other conversation in this thread, I doubt that you will read any of what I or anyone in this thread have shared with you. I can only call you to challenge that falsehood of “Russia being imperialist” in Ukraine and urge you to investigate without any bias what is happening in Ukraine. If you are still on denial, then I can only request you to open a post c/asklemmygrad and see what others have to say about the topic.

                  I leave you with the story of the antifascists brothers Kononovich:

                  In the Facebook posts from 2019 to 2021 that formed the basis of the accusation, it was stated: “The crimes of the authorities and Ukrainian nationalists in Donbas have no statute of limitations! Criminals must remember the inevitability of punishment”, “The Kyiv regime condemned the elections in Belarus. This is said by Nazis who are waging war against their own people and its history, in a country where opposition members are burned and killed, and where thousands of political prisoners are held in dungeons”, “Every Ukrainian must fight against euro-fascism in our country, each in their own place”, “Return the communists”.

                  However, as nationalist and neo-Nazi sentiments grew in Ukraine in the years following the collapse of the USSR, Georgiy Vladimirovich Buyko established and headed the “Antifascist Committee of Ukraine” in 2007 to combat the glorification of fascism. In 2011, the “Antifascist Committee of Ukraine,” under his leadership, along with the Communist Party of Ukraine and the Russian Bloc party, organized and participated in protests in Kyiv against nationalism and neo-Nazism.

                  Georgiy Buyko’s only “offense” is his political views and sharp criticism of neo-Nazism and fascism, for which the current anti-people’s regime has decided to imprison the 77-year-old communist.

    • baffled_and_aghast@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      2 天前

      I realize they’re problematic but this is one of the most based and theoretically correct anti imperialist takes on Ukraine I’ve heard. Also some good analysis of English mainstream politics further in. Credit where credit is due. Hoping they will evolve out of the TERFy stuff.

      • blobii@lemmygrad.ml
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        11 小时前

        Problematic?? They’re just as bad as bourgeois religious institutions attacking people for something like being trans and just trying to survive.

        • baffled_and_aghast@lemmygrad.mlOP
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          7 小时前

          As much as I disagree with CPGB on transgender issues, I can’t think of a single bourgeois religious institution that has consistently good analysis of imperialism, which is at the moment the principal contradiction in the world.

          My understanding of their position on transgender is that it’s based on concern for what they see as men in women’s spaces, as well as the notion that transgender is anti-materialist, liberal and metaphysical. Their position is wrongheaded but not religious. Ultimately, trans rights are human rights, some of our best comrades are trans, and CPGB must come to recognize this.

          • blobii@lemmygrad.ml
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            6 小时前

            The problem is that it’s not a political issue. It’s human rights. So something like this isn’t a ‘ohh but atleast they have good analyses’, it’s a yes or no solely depending on this question. When I go to see if I support something, the first thing I do is search ‘X organisation lgbtq rights’ because I can’t support something if it doesn’t support my right to live life safely and normally.

            But this is just for me, you can think what you think.

            • baffled_and_aghast@lemmygrad.mlOP
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              6 小时前

              I try to keep in mind that Mao allied with the Kuomintang even after they’d conducted a war of extermination against the communists. It was worth it to chase out the Japanese and achieve national liberation. The CPGB is of course hardly as bad as the Kuomintang despite their regressive gender views, but it’s a good reminder of the importance of tactical alliances.

              • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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                36 分钟前

                it’s a good reminder of the importance of tactical alliances.

                Something an impressive amount of ultras seem to forget.