cross-posted from: https://lemmy.one/post/27858506

This post serves as notice that Lemmy.one will be shutting down in 90 days.

Unfortunately, the moderation features in Lemmy never progressed to the point required to continue maintaining this service, and Lemmy simply does not have the userbase to justify the cost of this service. Myself and the moderation team apologize for the inconvenience this will cause.

This is sad news. Hopefully the comms can migrate to other smaller instances.

Edit: just saw this

as this is a fairly active community we just wanted to let you know that this community is no longer federating with Lemmy.World due to defederation from lemmy.one for lack of moderation.

Our announcement can be found here: https://lemmy.world/post/28173093

We recommend migrating to a community on an instance that is maintained better.

I guess it’s been an issue. I think the lemmy.one meant they needed better administration features

  • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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    5 hours ago

    people are too addicted to reddit to leave(even if they are banned they try to repeal again and again) , and most people dont know about lemmy

  • fireweed@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    “Joining the fediverse isn’t hard bro, your instance doesn’t matter, just pick one.”

    “Stop using Lemmy.world, we need to redistribute to smaller instances.”

    The number of times I’ve heard these fucking lines when people discuss why Lemmy/the Fediverse isn’t growing like corp-owned alternatives…

    • galaxynova@lemmy.ca
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      6 hours ago

      this wouldn’t be so bad if you could easily transfer your account from one instance to another

      • Saleh@feddit.org
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        5 hours ago

        You can transfer all your subscriptions and blocks. What you cannot transfer is your imaginary internet points that aren’t summed up by default in lemmy anyways.

          • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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            3 hours ago

            If instance A stops existing, instance B doesn’t have any specific knowledge of that versus it no longer federating. Existing posts and comments will stay. My instance is no longer federated with some, but I still see the communities from them.

          • Saleh@feddit.org
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            4 hours ago

            AFAIK they would remain tied to your old account. The instances copy everything off each other. So if reddthat.com would go down, your comment would still show as EndlessNightmare@reddthath.com If you were to make a new account on a different instance it would not have your posts and comments “attached” to it.

            This could be an issue if you rely on reputation for something that is tied to your account. In that sense having some mechanism to proof the old account to be owned by you would be good.

        • utopiah@lemmy.world
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          4 hours ago

          you cannot transfer is your imaginary internet points

          Ironically enough, even though “imaginary” this aspect might be key to moderation. Assuming (and that’s a flawed assumption) that people would upvote/downvote based not on their opinion but rather on how healthy/unhealthy to the discussion a comment is, then those “points” would be useful to see above/below a threshold one would want to interact, e.g. show content or not (or even now show even as to unfold).

          • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            Nah the points are laughably easy to game even in centralized reddit since this moderation aspect never made any sense. As if bad actors can’t upvote themselves, buy upvotes or just repost any random garbage to /r/funny.

            Its a terrible system that turned Reddit into a content desert. Once you decline some new person because “they dint have enough karma” they’re never trying to contribute again and you end up with power users who have a moat around content production.

            Shared moderation lists already do all of this in an actually functional way. You can subscribe to Bob’s list of douchebags and have the client block them. This is something bluesky added quite recently but it already exists on fediverse to instance admins tho afaik not individual users yet.

    • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      15 hours ago

      “Joining the fediverse isn’t hard bro, your instance doesn’t matter, just pick one.”

      It’s true, especially in cases like this when users have 3 months to pick another instance.

      “Stop using Lemmy.world, we need to redistribute to smaller instances.”

      Also true. Should LW go down in 90 days in a similar way, is it better if LW has 50% of the users, or a smaller number?

      • fireweed@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        I don’t disagree with the sentiments behind these statements, but you’re basically asking a fish to leave their large school to join a smaller school because it will benefit the species as a whole if the species is divided into multiple schools rather than one giant school. While it might be true that the species is safer that way, it’s much more dangerous for the individual fish to be in a smaller school than to stay in the large school.

        In other words, it’s safer for the fediverse for users to diversify, but is safer for the individual to join a “too large to fail” instance. If a user’s instance goes belly up and they lose their account and everything associated with it, it’s functionally similar to the entirety of Lemmy going down as far as that individual user is concerned, because unless you’re a serial lurker (in which case it doesn’t even matter what instance you’re on if you’re not contributing) who wants to invest years in a social media site just to lose your account? Most folks are going to leave rather than start all over. And most folks are going to make the decision that is in their best interests over those of some website. I know every time I see another instance get shut down or defederated, I’m relieved I decided to sign up via .world, even if it’s sluggish at times.

        • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          4 hours ago

          it’s much more dangerous for the individual fish to be in a smaller school than to stay in the large school.

          LW run was running 0.19.3 for more than a year after the 0.19.4 and later releases, preventing the LW users of using the new Lemmy features.

          is safer for the individual to join a “too large to fail” instance.

          Agree, but if you filter https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list by Active Users, and take any instance in the top 20, you’re as safe as on LW.

          Lemmy.zip for instance provides monthly transparency reports on !home@lemmy.zip , such as this one: https://lemmy.zip/post/35411310

          who wants to invest years in a social media site just to lose your account?

          I’ve switched instances several times since June 2023. I keep the same username and profile pic, so people still recognize me, and I still recognize other users who switched instances, or even platforms (e.g. switching from Lemmy to Piefed).

          I know every time I see another instance get shut down or defederated, I’m relieved I decided to sign up via .world, even if it’s sluggish at times.

          You’ll see similar reactions of people not on LW every time LW takes a controversial decision: https://lemmy.world/post/24135976

        • can@sh.itjust.worksOP
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          13 hours ago

          who wants to invest years in a social media site just to lose your account? Most folks are going to leave rather than start all over.

          It wouldn’t feel like fully starting over to me. Sure migrating communities I created would suck but at least they would be archived accross many instances.

          I’m not attached to my account itself. I just like my admin team.

  • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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    Everyone thinks the moderation/admin features need to be improved. I’m curious which improvements people are really needing. Whenever I see big complaints about it (beehaw, lemmy.one) I never see any specifics. Link the filed Github issues for them otherwise the feature requests don’t really exist, and I’d like to give them thumbs up reactions so they get prioritized more.

    Once I saw Beehaw give an actual specific complaint, and it was fixed in a hotfix (v0.18.5) within a couple weeks. Of course Beehaw never updated to that version anyways.

    • brot@feddit.org
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      36 minutes ago

      Lemmy is totally open to vote manipulation. If I want to harass you, I can create accounts on multiple instances and downvote every post or comment you make with 100s of accounts. That might be a little obvious, but you can totally swing policital discussions with a small network of accounts here (just give everything pro palestina 40 upvotes and downvote every pro israel post 50 downvotes) and local admins have no method of checking that you are using multiple accounts. All they get is the federated upvote.

      And, well, the whole Nicole situation also shows that there are huge holes in spam protection.

    • kersploosh@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      Here are a few things off the top of my head.

      Deleted accounts leave orphaned posts/comments, which still exist on the site but can be difficult for admins to find and remove: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/5525

      Private message reports don’t go to all the right people: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4436

      We should be getting some vote analytics in the future, which will be great. Lemmy seems to have a significant number of vote manipulation accounts that only exist to upvote/downvote in unison, but they are currently hard to find. https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/5669

      I really should open an issue to improve the reports queue. It’s tolerable if you mod an individual community or a smaller instance, but it is unusable as an admin on a really big instance like .world. There is no way to search or sort the reports. You can filter by posts or comments but then it only shows you 20 entries, which is a weird and unhelpful limitation. All reports have equal priority; there is no mechanism for users to flag reports that should be escalated to admins. And, if something is heavily reported, there is no way to batch resolve the reports after you address the issue.

      • can@sh.itjust.worksOP
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        13 hours ago

        I want to thank you and the rest of the SJW admin team for exemplary work. I really appreciate the time and mental energy put into it.

        • MrKaplan@lemmy.world
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          22 hours ago

          the problem isn’t being able to see them in the thread but that you can’t open the user profile, so you don’t see if there are any comments.

    • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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      A built in auto mod is the largest thing. A way to say that this common pattern is spam and to block it system wide, right now we just don’t have that. A nice to have stretch goal would be to use some model to fight actual gore or csam material, which just doesn’t exist. A moderation dashboard would be great to see users with their comment history, vote trends, high level to see if a person just had an off comment that might be taken the wrong way, or if there is a trend of trolling behavior

      These have been opened on the GitHub and either sit open forever or are just closed.

      • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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        1 day ago

        does Reddit have any of these tools built-in? they sound cool, but they can also be built externally (I believe an automod exists?), and I would say correctly take a back seat to bug fixes

          • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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            I guess depends if we’re talking about moderation tools or admin tools

            I wonder if it’s in the same git repo as Reddit itself, or if it’s separate software

            or if they even think it matters if it’s built-in or separate

        • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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          1 day ago

          Why compare us to reddit? We feel like Reddit but from a hosting and admin perspective it’s a whole different ballgame. Mods of reddit at worst run the risk of their communities being taken down for a bit if they let content slip through. Here on Lemmy us admins are legally liable for content that is posted. We don’t have a large limited liability corporation that will take the hit for us. We need these tools, or we are the ones that will have boots through doors.

    • can@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      1 day ago

      Unrelated, but deus ex randomized sounds like a great idea. It’s been so long I feel like I would have to replay the base game first.

      • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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        we have a game mode called “Zero Rando” (no randomization) that’s basically vanilla with QoL improvements and bug fixes

        the Randomizer had so many compatibility fixes, QoL improvements, and bug fixes over the original game, this ended up being really useful for new first time players

        since you’ve played before we also have “Zero Rando Plus” which is the same thing, but also includes the balance changes we’ve made for Randomizer

        and we also have “Rando Lite” and “Rando Medium” to get started with the randomization stuff before going up to Normal Randomizer or Full Randomizer

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLZIQTa_kwZhBksj7UzcahPiRaHk87fWch&v=ksoj1QMoGIc

        https://mods4ever.com/ | !deus_ex_randomizer@lemmy.mods4ever.com

          • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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            our “Zero Rando” makes way less changes to the gameplay than GMDX or Revision, which are often recommended to first time players but they’re actually totally different games from the original

            our “Zero Rando Plus” would be more similar in the amount of changes to them

            • can@sh.itjust.worksOP
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              I wish I remembered if my first playthrough was vanilla or not. I feel like it was. I can’t remember when it was exactly but it would have been when the game was already roughly 10 years old. Late 2000s/early 2010s

            • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 day ago

              How about Deus Ex: Transcended?

              I think that was the patch I ended up using my first playthrough (I’m away from my computer at the moment or else I’d check), but I might want to use something else my second time.

              • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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                1 day ago

                Transcended seems good. I haven’t played it, but it sounds like it still has changes from Revision left over in it (it was forked from Revision). Like cameras seeing bodies, pawns reacting to unconscious bodies, and dogs having the jump attack. But idk if those can be turned off. If they can be turned off then it’s pretty similar to our “Zero Rando”.

                But we have more QoL features available that you can enable which aren’t included by default in “Zero Rando”. A big one being Password Autofill which isn’t enabled by default in “Zero Rando” but it’s huge for Steam Deck players.

                We also allow selectively enabling balance changes. Like auto augs, or general aug balance changes, there’s an option for skill changes, map changes. Here’s some of the settings menus:

                Also we’re open source

      • ripcord@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Unrelated, but Moby Dick was named after a real white whale named Mocha Dick, which was nicknamed after first being encountered near Mocha Island.

    • Baron Von J@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      It originally set out to be just an account-hosting instance, at a time when the major instances with the big communities would be going down as usage surged from people leaving Reddit. This way it was more responsive and reliably online. They have <10 communities hosted on the instance.

  • 𞋴𝛂𝛋𝛆@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Thanks for the cross post.

    Citations needed on mod tool complaints. I mod one of the largest communities on Lemmy. In 2 years I’ve had around a couple dozen times that required actual mod stuff. The tools are perfectly adequate for the volume of users in my opinion.

    We all took it a little hard when some regular users left. I get that. There will always be people coming and going for various reasons.

    There is also always an issue with narcissists that tend to get involved with moderating for the wrong reasons.

    All humans are lazy at times. And all of us have a right to pick up an leave if we choose. Blaming the tools as a scapegoat for one’s laziness, or inadequacy, or to mask one’s financial limitations, seems to me like a narcissistic way to toss in the towel and check out, like an attempt to drag others down too.

    I wish those that want to leave all the best, and I’ll still be here hanging around if you ever want to come back, friend. Regardless , thanks for what you contributed to this place in the time we spent as digital neighbors.

    • OpenStars@piefed.social
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      23 hours ago

      The linked post explains:

      A Lemmy.World user informed us about an instance we are federated with that was hosting very illegal content a while back. This was a result of an attack more than a year ago, and said content federated to many other instances, which made local copies of the material. Unfortunately, when this material was taken down at the source, that action did not federate to all linked instances, meaning that there are still some instances showing this material.

      Once we were made aware of this, we realized that this was likely not the only occurrence, so we started looking for other instances where this content may also still exist. We have identified more than 50 affected instances and already reached out to many of them to inform them about this content to have it taken down.

      It seems that it is quite difficult for instance admins to do things like permanently remove posts locally which have already been removed by a mod somewhere else. Ironically, by intentionally making it difficult to access, its inaccessibility afterwards makes it difficult to… uh… access, e.g. to delete it, very much a design flaw.

      • MrKaplan@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        it’s a combination of multiple issues.

        lemmy federation has improved significantly over the past years, so if this was happening with lemmy instances today, especially online ones involved, this would be much less of an issue.

        the original user posting this stuff was on a kbin instance. kbin/mbin still do not support federating bans of users. kbin is basically dead, mbin is tracking that here. when this was originally removed on kbin this never federated out to other platforms.

        the next problem is that the original instance is no longer there, so attempting to address this with community bans from lemmys side is not working anymore if the user isn’t known to the instance anymore, as it can’t be refetched from the source. if the instances that the related communities are hosted on purged this user in the past they wouldn’t be able to federate out a community ban anymore.

        another problem is that lemmy is typically configured in a way where it creates a local copy of thumbnails if no thumbnail url is provided by the source, which is what lead to a local copy of this material. in the end i consider this only a secondary issue, as while most people would rather not have this stored on their servers at all, if you allow media uploads you can never be 100% sure about the content uploaded to your server. this is therefore typically something where providers are expected to take action once they become aware of it. some providers are also taking preventative measures like scanning uploads, comparing to hash databases of known csam, etc. had the original instance ban or community bans been performed properly this would at least have removed public access to the stuff, as the media filenames are randomly generated and not guessable.

        it’s generally not impossible to prevent stuff from returning to your instance once you have taken it down properly, but in cases where federation didn’t work, which could be for a wide range of reasons, including your instance being misconfigured during maintenance, your instance being defederated from an instance involved in the removal, and others, it may require local action. if i ban a user then no new content form that user is going to come to LW until they are unbanned again. this includes manually fetching posts or other content, so if i purge an old post of theirs the post wouldn’t be able to come back until the user gets unbanned.

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 day ago

      The biggest one is that there needs to be a distinction between mod report and ijstance admin report

    • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.com
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      Fully agree. Make issue, open bug bounty if you wish. Ask your community for donations or plain make a paid service so you can handle finances. Thats it. Of course things can always improve but that also requires that instances drive donations to the devs and are active in decisionmaking.

  • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I’m a bit bummed as lemmy.one was my introduction to the ecosystem. :(

    OTOH, when they were having server problems, I set up a kbin account, but left it when it became clear I could only use the kbin app to access it. Looks like that’s shut down now too!

    • can@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      kbin development has halted due to personal issues of the sole dev.

      It has since been forked as mbin and seems to be doing well. I too am waiting for stronger app support to truly compare.

      • Rhaedas@fedia.io
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        2 days ago

        I’ll add to the bias. I created both a kbin account and a Lemmy.one account when the migration happened. Preferred kbin’s look and feel, then changed over to mbin when Ernest started having issues. Haven’t looked back, mbin is great.

        • osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org
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          +1 for the kbin >>mbin pipeline. I like that it still has pwa support since I really don’t need a phone app for a text based forum

          • can@sh.itjust.worksOP
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            1 day ago

            since I really don’t need a phone app for a text based forum

            We are very different people and I respect that.

            • osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org
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              Lol, I think we might be closer than you think. Lemmy and reddit are both basically unusable in web form on mobile, but Ernest took the time to make the layout of kbin in such a way that it compresses down to a PWA/Mobile layout without becoming a complete clusterfuck, something the mbin maintainers have maintained support for and I think is one of the key distinguishing features of the platform. The way it works feels very similar to the old RIF layout, and as such was everything I wanted from a reddit replacement from day one :)

    • nimmo@social.nimmog.uk
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      1 day ago

      I’m a fellow mbin convert myself. When the great exodus happened, I set up a Lemmy instance, but I took a 4 month break from it for reasons I don’t recall. When I tried to spin that instance back up it wouldn’t pull in new posts and didn’t support oidc, but I saw that mbin did, so I switched to that and was pretty happy with its look and feel.

      Writing this message on the interstellar app just now. My only minor gripe is that there’s no way to mark something as read with a single tap that I’ve found. (Got to long press and mark as read, but I’ll accept that I may have missed something)

      • jwr1@kbin.earth
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        23 hours ago

        Writing this message on the interstellar app just now. My only minor gripe is that there’s no way to mark something as read with a single tap that I’ve found. (Got to long press and mark as read, but I’ll accept that I may have missed something)

        I’ll give a quick overview: to mark a post as read, you need to either open it, vote on it, boost it, or mark it as read explicitly, which can be done through the overflow menu (long press or tap overflow button, like you said) or by configuring the swipe gestures to have the mark as read action (then all you have to do is swipe on the post). In the next update, we will also have a “mark as read on scroll” option, which, when enabled, will mark all posts in your feed as read once it scrolls off the top of the screen.

        • nimmo@social.nimmog.uk
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          18 hours ago

          Oh, thanks for getting back with the overview. I appreciate it and will shortly be doing the swipe to mark as read once I find the option.

          Mark as read on scroll will be great when that comes out too as that’ll work nicely for me.

  • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    That’s kind of sad but also isn’t surprising. They didn’t exactly put in a huge amount of effort to maintain it, nor did they put in much effort to grow it or make it appealing as a server for people to join.

    • can@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      That explains why despite it being around for a while I seem to have no opinion of it.

      Edit: always sad to see an instance go however

  • Troy@lemmy.ca
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    2 days ago

    Any significant communities impacted? Scrolling through my subscriptions list and I don’t have any in my list.

  • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Not surprised. Moderation tools have needed to be the top priority for a long time, and most of lemmy’s users don’t know how janky it is behind the scenes.