Also unrelated but why tf does the video autostarts?
Like a… Pogrom?
A big genocidal pogrom. The biggest pogrom.
I hope I live to see Israel, in its current form, entirely destroyed. I want to believe that there are consequences to being this evil.
Its a noble dream. But for Israel to ever face justice their largest and fiercest backer - the nation that is often the only one that votes to protect them in UN votes, and the one that has almost singlehandedly turned them into a military superpower in the middle east - the USA - must get its house in order first.
There is zero chance of much changing on Israel while Republicans or the conservative wing of the Democrats are in power, and especially while Trump is president. That’s not to say it can’t change, but there are multiple hurdles: so, I hope you live a long time and see a lot of positive changes throughout your life.
Climate change has entered the chat
If Gaza will be entirely destroyed, there is a considerable risk that Israel will meet the same fate later.
If a country spans only 22 000 square kilometers and is inhabited by 10 million people, it’s not very smart to make enemies among every group who can relate to Palestinians - for example Muslims (about 1.9 billion people) or perhaps Arabs (around 400 million people).
Put simply - Israel has withstood various pressures because of US backing.
The US currently runs a high risk of getting somewhat indisposed due to a president they elected acting very foolishly. If the US should break down, Israel will find itself very isolated.
If Israel makes a record amount of determined enemies now, it may have a record amount of people seeking its downfall later. Even if the Israeli government doesn’t care the slightest amount about Palestinians, it should consider its own future before acting in the described way.
It’s been shown that alone they cannot keep up the current rate of genocide, there was a report that they’re already running out of munitions in couple of weeks.
Their economy is also in shambles and the zionist government will face a civil movement because they ran out of money.
The last part seems pretty unlikely. The population is entirely brainwashed they will not change course on their own
Good. Israel can get a new exodus.
I would not use to the word “good” in any sentence describing such events - nothing like that is good.
However, risk of their state not lasting because they alienated most allies and made countless enemies, should make people (even politicians) think twice.
Oh? Is Israel finally letting Palestinians have free travel so that they actually can leave or is “leave in great numbers” a euphemism for the ongoing genocide?
They can leave in bodybags…
I would say genocide. It’s Israel. Come on now.
As would I, hence I did. But the quote was from an Israeli official.I think I might have read the comment I replied to wrong. It seems to me now they were choosing the second option of my original comment.
Israel is the modern day Nazi regime and we need to stop mincing words about it.
Thats why our nazi president is making sure it’s illegal to say bad things about the Israeli government, like knows like
The worst one, but not the only one
No doubt.
United States of Aipac will approve, does not matter reps or dems.
European sanctions also apparently never.
This is fucking evil manifest.
To all those who stood up against “Genocide Joe”:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
Know that your internet slacktivism has made a lasting difference in the world, and the JIDF thanks you for your service.
you’re just mad that trump is carrying out your only policy for you.
You and everyone who repeats the “I hope you’re happy now” really are not helping. You’re mad, I’m mad, but please please get your fill of catharsis/smug self righteousness elsewhere please, blaming non/voters isn’t going to rebuild the Obama coalition that delivered a supermajority in Congress. The Democrats lost the youth turnout, Palestine (Russian/astroturf bots or no) were not the sole factor but a sharp tipping point that laid out reality bare.
Im not at all surprised that young voters who became politically aware during the Obama era or later were gradually disenchanted and sat this round out; when you look at it from their timeline they did all the right democracy things and got shit on over and over
- Organic enthusiasm for Bernie in the primary, sabotaged by superdelegates - your vote doesn’t matter, we pick not you plebs and in their mind that action brought Trump 2016
- George Floyd’s livestreamed murder and BLM protests - no structural change or even federal police reform passed
- The kids yet again come out and do the right thing by voting Biden in 2020, and watch more politicking and focus-tested soft liberalism rule the day. Rail strike busted. East Palestine spill without serious investigation or reform. Debt ceiling negotiations and kowtowing - everything will stay the same
- Oct 7 happens, then the Israeli bombing campaign begins and Biden openly castigates activists and doubles down on supplying the IDF - how dare you plebs question your leader
- Protests persist, organize and clearly make their demands known, even send a warning shot in the primary… receiving only empty words from leadership - they are not going to do what you want
- The DNC platforms two Jewish parents of a Hamas hostage at the convention, but refuses to allow a Dem Rep to speak with pre-vetted remarks - we don’t even want to hear from you
And nothing substantial happened that might change their mind. Kamala rode that same trajectory through her campaign, even as VP she had a harder stance on Israel that suddenly evaporated once she was appointed the nominee.
Its genocide - the crime of all crimes - and the Democratic Party refused to seriously discuss the topic in public. I cannot seriously blame them for giving up on a party that refused to listen to them in good faith, and disappointed them time after time. That’s on the DNC for throwing that demographic away, and we need to recognize that. They’re not voting for Republicans ffs but they’ve received the message that they and their vote, isn’t important to the Democrats.
Absolutely this.
Anyone denying the clear signals of despair from young voters is coping. Idk why anyone is getting mad at people demanding progress from dems at a time when there’s no risk of electoral losses - makes me think those people are actually just carrying water for ani-reform neoliberal fascists.
Genocide is the ultimate crime huh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves
Or the genocide starting in America of people with skin the same color as I have.
It’s Trump, no matter who the dems put up you weren’t voting for them, you were voting against a rapist, pedophile traitor.
I hope your loved ones are safe.
That’s more than you deserve. You couldn’t even be bothered to vote against genocide. Too late to whine about it now. You were perfectly content with brown people from abroad getting firebombed
I have zero empathy for you. As an european i think we should give refugees status to those of you who didn’t vote for a genocider.
Sorry your favorite mass murderer lost
They are, I got them out of the country when the redneck filth took over.
I voted against Genocide, 2 genocides, sorry I don’t give a shit about the specific one you seem obsessed about, but I’m also pretty sure the ones I care about are a hell of a lot bigger.
Also, I knew a lot of the people I voted to stop the genocide of, which is why I care so much.
Then I don’t give a shit about Americans getting genocided. How does your own medecine taste like?
As an European I’d give asylum to american. After the prison sentence for those who supported one of the two genocidal candidates
Genocide is the ultimate crime huh?
Fucking yes. I cannot believe we’re even having this argument. Nothing comes close.
Or the genocide starting in America of people with skin the same color as I have
I am absolutely not trying to downplay the barbarity and wanton cruelty of the Trump administration’s policies, but what we’ve seen so far doesn’t match the definition. Extrajudicial disappearances and zero due process for perceived or actual migrants is not the same thing as genocide. There’s no forced sterilization, rote murder, mass displacement, or deliberate attempt to destroy a collective people. CECOT is an overseas concentration camp, not a death camp - yet.
…
Dodged right around the mass graves?
The kidnapped children?
The destruction of culture through russification?
I don’t quite understand your argument here, all of those crimes fall under the umbrella term of genocide as well.
Maybe you guys shouldn’t have sponsored Putin/Yeltsin back in the 90ies
^ This is what forum sliding looks like disguised as progressive concern. Block and move on
edit: I’m pointing out right wing propaganda and I get downvoted? Fuck every one of you and I’m not putting in any more effort to keep the shit out of lemmy
I literally cannot find anything about “forum sliding” that isn’t re-re-re-reposts of the same text - and they’re almost universally tinfoil hat or ‘freethinker’ faux intellectual dross. If you’re that paranoid go read my comment history, it’s all public lol
If you want to live in a hugboxed information bubble where your ideas never get challenged, you can do that. But reality will come crashing through eventually.
jsyk, the majority of ‘genocide joe’ social media posts were right wing propaganda
I mean sure there were some that chose not to vote because of Gaza, but the number doesn’t really make a difference in the final count.
More people abstained due to sexism honestly
Ah yes my friend who died last year in Beyruth was “right wing propaganda”
Maybe people wouldn’t call him “Genocide Joe” if he hadn’t backed a genocide. I always find it amazing that people blame the voters, instead of blaming the people with the power, the platform, and the money, who chose genocide over winning the election.
I always find it amazing that people blame the voters
I think people are blaming the people who didn’t vote. They thought they were sending the message “I don’t like genocide”, but that was ignorant of them.
The message they sent was “Eh, either is fine. I’m fine with Trump or Harris. Whatever”. And then they took the moral high ground for doing so.
Which I also find understandable. I disagree with non-voters, but if both choices are terrible, and fight against what you want, I understand why people wouldn’t want to vote.
The proper way to communicate an opinion that “both choices are terrible” is to make your way to the polling station and either vote for something other than those two bad choices, or to decline or spoil your ballot.
Not voting says “I can’t be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine”.
People think it means “Give me something other than these two”, but it takes more effort to communicate that message.
Political activism requires effort, and it requires effort the right way. Not voting is political inaction.
I understand why some people kill their families and then kill themselves.
I’ll still put forth that it’s bad, destructive, and wrong.
Bad analogies are bad
Honestly, who the hell cares.
Americans of every race made their choice in 2024 and there’s no point in speculating what the losing party would have done.
The reality is what it is and we’re under Trump now.
As long as those Americans understand what their vote was for and can live with it, that’s what matters and I’m 100% okay with my vote and I can live with it.
I care.
More importantly, as a non-white American watching a genocide start at home, it very much matters who and what people voted (or didn’t vote) for.
What really pisses me off is people saying democrats would have been just as bad, while we watch people drug off by thugs in black body armor to El Salvador to die without due process.
I think it’s safe to speculate that that wouldn’t have happened under the alternative.
Yeah as a brown immigrant also in the US…get over it. This was inevitable; were just speedrunning it. I know you’re hurting and want to expel that pain, but you really need to figure out how to channel it into something constructive instead of whining on the Internet.
What really piss me off is american making the genocide about themselves and their political situation
Your country is funding carpet bombing of civilians population. You are not the victim nor the main character
Ah yes this article just seem to be about people who got bombed and starved for the last year / decades, but really, this is about you isn’t it?
How self-centered can American be? Trump isn’t carpet bombing Detroit, is he?
Because there’s no history of brown people being killed in America.
This is about America, you’re trying to make American politics all about Palestine, to the point you literally sacrificed America for Palestine.
Well-played.
This is about America, you’re trying to make American politics all about Palestine, to the point you literally sacrificed America for Palestine.
The party knew genocide was unpopular and went ahead with their support anyway. They sacrificed America for netanyahu and cannot imagine ever doing anything else.
Fix your stupid country, idiot. My friend fucking died because of you people supporting Israel. I don’t want to read your self centered trivialization
Look Buddy I know you’re scared for your people and you have all the right to be.
As for me I will show you as much empathy as you shown Palestinians. That is not at all
If I’m ever given the choice between fascism here and genocide in America, well, I hope you have the place to hide, coz I won’t bother doing the right thing
I don’t give a fuck about american politics, idiot. YOU’RE THE ONE BRINGING IT UP
You literally jumped into a thread about American politics.
To say you don’t care about American politics.
You see the contradiction there?
This article is not about America at all. Nowhere in the title nor the body of the article does it speak about America.
You just think it’s about America because you’re a self-absorbed asshole
I’m not sure how much better Democrats would have been with respect to Palestine, and I’m not going to speculate.
BUT I feel confident saying that the outcome for people in the U.S. would have been much better had the election gone differently.
I’m not sure how much better Democrats would have been with respect to Palestine
The principle difference is that they try to keep the quiet part quiet. Mainly by screaming abuse at anyone who has a problem with the quiet part.
Who cares about them?
They deserve as much empathy as they give Palestinians when they voted for one of the two genocider
I’m trying to understand where you are coming from. In the general elections, I voted for Harris and Clinton after voting against them in primaries. The thing about voting and elections is that there are hundreds of variables involved, and focusing on one to pin blame on a sliver of the electorate doesn’t seem like thoughtful analysis or productive to an oppositional cause.
You can point to turnouts and results from specific counties until your finger dries up and falls off, but that only highlights a neglect regarding myriad other factors that contribute to results. My opinion is that the Harris campaign ran the race the way they thought best and they lost. They lost. Sure, in sense we all lost, but they were the ones driving the bus.
We aren’t children without agency, they aren’t singers on American idol.
They had policy manifestos, they were explicit about them.
And the voices screaming to ignore everything else and focus only on Palestine as the only variable that mattered, in unison, with almost perfect resonance with Russian troll farms (curious given Russia’s close ties with both Iran and hamas in the lead up to october 7, and their use of Gaza to distract the west from support for Ukraine).
We’re being played like puppets, and nobody is willing to admit there are malicious actors at work who benefit.
Or… It could be that people have lost faith in the Democratic party. Look at their current approval rating. Look at Biden’s terrible presidency. Look at Biden and Harris’ terible campaigns. Look at the issues and policies that they ran on. All of that pushed people away from them based on the polling.
It’s easy to blame foreign influence, but it’s more productive to figure out why the supposedly left party ran to the right, and alienated their voting base. Did the Russian try to influence the election? Of course, I’d be surprised if they didn’t. But from what I saw, the Demcrats did more damage to themselves than the Russians could have hoped for.
No, your lying eyes must be russian psyops.
To all those who stood with Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
Know that your support for genocide helped usher in Trump & has made a lasting difference in the world, and the JIDF thanks you for your service.
The ‘no u’ defense doesn’t really work here
So true. Democrats don’t have anyone to blame but themselves. Maybe they’ll learn or maybe they won’t.
We won’t even have real elections by then. your moral high ground is fucking worthless, when it garuntees minorities are just going to die. The “I’m gonna stand here and make sure you don’t win in protest” only works when the other answer isn’t straight up facism. Sure Democrats aren’t and won’t ever be progressive, but that’s because this country lacks a progressive party. And the time to create one was many years ago.
The reason people like you can unironically think this fine is because the fascists won’t come for you. You can fucking sit there with your goofy ass smirk while I’m sure I’ll be right after immigrants on my way to some camp.
You honestly act like what’s happening in Gaza would be worse with her. And as a result you really feel like just letting as many atrocities as possible happen is for the benefit of everyone globally. I can’t take yall seriously
The cope of liberals thinking that Kamela ‘most lethal military’ Harris was going to be any different on foreign policy are brain dead.
I didn’t expect her to be any different on this. My voting was based on differences in domestic policy.
I respect that stance.
The only people I’m deeply frustrated by are the ones hand wringing about why people didn’t vote the way they wanted, and hand wave how dogshit Kamala was.
Compared to the 5d megabrain who thinks she would have threatened to invade Greenland and Canada while making friends with Russia.
Honestly I prefer that. Isolating the empire and getting the rest of the world against the country facilitating genocide is good to me.
Accelerationism has historically never ended well.
So wait, you want the US to oppose genocide, or you want them to commit more so everyone hates them?
You have to pick one.
If there isn’t a choice in whether the genocide support happens, I prefer the US to weaken and isolate itself globally by kneecaping its relations with other western nations.
If I said, I prefer Nazi Germany to not have allies while they are committing the final solution, I think you would understand why I have this position.
…
Cool…
Now you have many genocides, well done.
The genocide in America (of course, mostly of brown people, so don’t let that trouble you, it’s more of a concern for people like me and my family), the genocide in Ukraine, again, not your problem…
Glad you’ve decided only 1 genocide matters, the rest, meh, not worth your time.
You underestimate the damage that can be done in the ensuing vacuum.
From food security to physical security, impact will be severe.
Never mind that the next superpowers in line to take the mantle are totalitarian ethnostates.
I couldn’t finish the article because of how horrific the descriptions of kids suffering were.
I’m not going to read the article because I’ve read enough already to be fucking sickened by it.
I was told many times that the extremists who hold this agenda in Israel are a small minority and do not represent Israel or have much power over its policy.
If they are the minority, why does Netanyahu keep getting reelected?
It’s what I’m asking myself.
Netanyahu isn’t seen as an extremist within Israeli politics. Zionism has always been fascist and always had the agenda of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians
Probably the same kind of ignorance of other countries’ perspective that makes Americans think the political center is somewhere between the US Republicans and the US Democrats.
I know it’s framed that way deliberately to western audiences as a way to minimize Israels current actions as fringe instead of mainstream, but yeah, definitely taken that way from the audience. American exceptionalism still has a stronghold in the mentality of the people here unfortunately.
Removed by mod
There is no excuse for the systematic extermination of innocent civilians in response to the criminal actions of Hamas.
Imagine being Zionist in 2025
I hope one day the same will happen to Israel and Israelians and I hope no one will care anymore.
Or here’s a novel thought: how about we start hoping for bad shit to not happen? The cycle of revenge and “I deserve this land because X” is how we ended up in this situation in the first place.
No, we ended up in this situation because colonizers came and stole Palestinian land. It’s an Israeli myth that Palestinians first stole the land from the Jews and expelled them.
The truth is, Palestinians are just descendents of ancient Israelis. They’re not invaders. They’re indigenous to the land.
The truth is, you’ve completely ignored my point. Genocide as a response to genocide solves nothing.
Sure, Israel should be abolished peacefully.
I’m just saying, this isn’t how we got here.
What fantasy land do you live in where the involuntary dismantling of a country is ever a peaceful process?
Decolonization can be done peacefully.
I don’t think that will happen, but it could!
I also support Palestinian resistance, and that’s very different from Israeli violence inflicted onto Palestinians. Indigenous resistance to colonization is always justified.
Decolonization can be done peacefully.
50 years ago you might have had a chance to make it happen, since most Israeli people would have been born elsewhere. Now you have multiple generations of people born and raised in Israel. They have nowhere else to go.
And you’ll have to forgive me for being skeptical about a Muslim majority Palestine being tolerant of religious differences if they regained control of the whole area.
That’s what I keep saying about adopting healing language/actions because it’s not different when we do it, for “reasons.” The Lemmy masses are almost entirely against it.
Settler colonialism is how we ended up in this situation. There is no ‘both sides’ when one is engaging in supremacy and genocide while the other is resisting eradication and fighting for their human rights
Edit:
For the people who are downvoting. Equating the violence here is the same as equating the violence in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. It’s been over 76 years of violent apartheid, supremacy, and ethnic cleansing.
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai, an Israeli, has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
You’re getting down voted because you’ve missed the point. It doesn’t matter why the current situation is happening, calling for genocide as a response to genocide makes you just as guilty as the people you hate.
Kami is, which is why I downvoted them.
Palestinian resistance is not calling for genocide.
I’m not calling for anything, I’m just hoping they’ll get what they are giving. If you think it is genocide, then so be it.
I feel like I’m talking to a bot. All of your responses are at best tangentially related to what I say.
You blamed the current situation on the ‘cycle of revenge,’ which grossly misrepresents the reality of Zionism and the reaction of Palestinian resistance.
And you keep ignoring the point that it doesn’t fucking matter. You can’t solve genocide with more genocide.
Zionism is the problem. While a small Minority in Israel, there are many anti-zionist Israelis who are playing a critical role in dismantling Zionism.
It’s a one-state reality of supremacy and apartheid. The only way out is with ending Zionism and implementing right of return, equal rights, and massive reparations to all Palestinians
Unfortunately, from the outside it looks very much like the anti-Zionists are taking the position of “once the Zionists have done all the Zionism, we’ll give them a very stern telling off.”
This may not be how it actually is, but as long as Yahoo and people of his mindset are in charge, it won’t look any better than that.
That’s certainly not what they are saying. Ilan Pappe and Avi Schlaim are great counter examples. I think what you’re talking about fits post-zionists much more accurately. And in terms of post-zionism I agree.
Adi Callai has also done phenomenal work about bringing an end to Zionism, he has a great analysis of Franz Fanon as well.
