While defending yourself in a no knock situation could be warranted, we can’t pretend that ICE wouldn’t have then murdered the whole family. You might be able to find a sympathetic judge and jury but that’s not worth much when you and / or people you care about are dead.
That’s assuming they’ll be left in peace after the illegal gestapo raid. Who’s to say that said gestapo’s not going to put them in a truck and send him to a concentration camp in El Salvador. People have no choice but to defend themselves as if ice is at your door they’re going to kill you. Because that’s the implication
Mate, Ive never wanted a gun for more than pew pew at the range. However, we are at the point where our 2a right to defend ourselves is actually relevant.
There are masked, plainclothes officers abducting people off the street. How do I know that they are within their legal rights?
Trump is approving breaking into peoples houses without a warrant. How do I know they have a legal right to do so?
I’m not trigger happy. If you show me a signed warrant and identify yourself so that I can verify who you are, we got no problems. Otherwise, how do I know you are who you say you are?
DHS issues writs for ICE but since there is no court hearing these cases, there is no warrant that ICE can obtain. The DOJ has said there is no warrant required…which is spurious as that goes against the 4th amendment. ICE will call a writ a warrant, and often journalists will write what they’re told. See these articles regarding a different arrest below
There is not a court that ICE has access to that will issue a valid warrant. This is why the DOJ just said it doesn’t matter if there is a warrant or not. ICE is flagrantly defying the 4th amendment. That other case, ICE can be heard in a recording telling Mahmoud’s wife that they have a warrant. Now they say that they never had/needed one in the first place.
The issue is that ICE cannot legally get a warrant for the people they are choosing to detain as they focus on families. The “dangerous criminals” that have real warrants, those are usually served/executed by the FBI, Marshalls, or local SWAT. I don’t know if you live in the US like I do, but this is a pretty serious issue as again, these writs are not warrants, ICE does not have access to a warrant as that’s not how our courts are set up nor is it how their department was set up.
Both of the resources I listed at the top of my response explain this in depth. The last link I shared was for context.
Law enforcement officers have a duty of care. If they execute a no knock warrant at an address that is no longer valid and get shot in the process it is likely there would be no criminal culpability for the homeowner if it’s in a castle doctrine state.
They’re right, but only in a very theoretical sense. As in, it’s true that you can legally shoot at officers who don’t identify themselves in self-defense, but whether that’s actually how things work in court is an entirely other matter.
I didn’t realize I was giving legal advice. I was pointing out their duty of care based on the training and education I received while pursuing a bachelors degree for law enforcement.
Was there something specific you’re taking issue with or did you just want to snark?
If there was, I didn’t see it but as the Executive will find out if there was, it’s not up to them, it’s up to the Judicial.
The person currently occupying the White House is not a king. Much as he might like to believe otherwise.
I’m a law abiding citizen of the United States. If someone breaks into my home have every reason to believe they’re hostile and won’t hesitate to use deadly force to protect myself and my family.
Just as there is no for cops murdering pretty much anyone for anything on the clock. “Standing your ground” to these bastards is plain playing with fire. If you’re not perfectly white and very lucky, you’ll be just signing your own death warrant.
2a
While defending yourself in a no knock situation could be warranted, we can’t pretend that ICE wouldn’t have then murdered the whole family. You might be able to find a sympathetic judge and jury but that’s not worth much when you and / or people you care about are dead.
That’s assuming they’ll be left in peace after the illegal gestapo raid. Who’s to say that said gestapo’s not going to put them in a truck and send him to a concentration camp in El Salvador. People have no choice but to defend themselves as if ice is at your door they’re going to kill you. Because that’s the implication
Most 2a people want to shoot people without consequence, not defend anyone.
Mate, Ive never wanted a gun for more than pew pew at the range. However, we are at the point where our 2a right to defend ourselves is actually relevant.
There are masked, plainclothes officers abducting people off the street. How do I know that they are within their legal rights?
Trump is approving breaking into peoples houses without a warrant. How do I know they have a legal right to do so?
I’m not trigger happy. If you show me a signed warrant and identify yourself so that I can verify who you are, we got no problems. Otherwise, how do I know you are who you say you are?
That’s simple. They don’t, ever. Unless the 4th amendment has been repealed, all of these raids are illegal.
That’s not going to stop you from being shot or prosecuted if you defend yourself, though.
I was thinking of a custom “Free Bullets with Every Forced Entry” sign.
They had military grade weapons .
Doesn’t “military grade” mean from the cheapest bidder?
Are their faces military grade?
So do we
We can’t use fully auto
You can. It’s illegal in your country. Just like breaking down your door without a warrant.
With the correct FFL you can.
Also there are Forced Reset Triggers.
if the law is on their side, why are they wearing masks?
I’ve been saying this too! Why not show your faces if you think you’re doing the right thing?!?!?
No, they had a writ from DHS it was not a valid warrant.
Source? I copied that from the article.
https://www.employmentlawletter.com/2025/01/what-organizations-should-know-about-ice-enforcement-actions/
https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/ice_warrants_summary.pdf
DHS issues writs for ICE but since there is no court hearing these cases, there is no warrant that ICE can obtain. The DOJ has said there is no warrant required…which is spurious as that goes against the 4th amendment. ICE will call a writ a warrant, and often journalists will write what they’re told. See these articles regarding a different arrest below
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ice+mahmoud&t=fpas&ia=web
That doesn’t say anything about this case. Given it wasn’t just ICE involved, it’s possible that a judicial warrant was obtained.
There is not a court that ICE has access to that will issue a valid warrant. This is why the DOJ just said it doesn’t matter if there is a warrant or not. ICE is flagrantly defying the 4th amendment. That other case, ICE can be heard in a recording telling Mahmoud’s wife that they have a warrant. Now they say that they never had/needed one in the first place.
The issue is that ICE cannot legally get a warrant for the people they are choosing to detain as they focus on families. The “dangerous criminals” that have real warrants, those are usually served/executed by the FBI, Marshalls, or local SWAT. I don’t know if you live in the US like I do, but this is a pretty serious issue as again, these writs are not warrants, ICE does not have access to a warrant as that’s not how our courts are set up nor is it how their department was set up.
Both of the resources I listed at the top of my response explain this in depth. The last link I shared was for context.
Are those even legit anymore? Any idiot judge (or DOGE script kiddie pretending to be one) can sign one.
I’m just responding the the meme asking Police to come back with a warrant
Law enforcement officers have a duty of care. If they execute a no knock warrant at an address that is no longer valid and get shot in the process it is likely there would be no criminal culpability for the homeowner if it’s in a castle doctrine state.
Does lemmy have a sub for badlegaladvice? This comment feels like a prime candidate :)
They’re right, but only in a very theoretical sense. As in, it’s true that you can legally shoot at officers who don’t identify themselves in self-defense, but whether that’s actually how things work in court is an entirely other matter.
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/10/1175268778/minneapolis-police-officer-felony-assault-black-man-george-floyd
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/us/kenneth-walker-breonna-taylor-dismissed-charges/index.html
I didn’t realize I was giving legal advice. I was pointing out their duty of care based on the training and education I received while pursuing a bachelors degree for law enforcement.
Was there something specific you’re taking issue with or did you just want to snark?
Wasn’t there an executive order issued today that seemed to imply that wouldn’t matter?
If there was, I didn’t see it but as the Executive will find out if there was, it’s not up to them, it’s up to the Judicial.
The person currently occupying the White House is not a king. Much as he might like to believe otherwise.
I’m a law abiding citizen of the United States. If someone breaks into my home have every reason to believe they’re hostile and won’t hesitate to use deadly force to protect myself and my family.
Even if be were called “King” rather than “President”, the Constitution is still a thing. He can call himself whatever, really.
Funny thing is, many citizens of the US seem to have less rights and priviledges than subjects of the UK.
Just as there is no for cops murdering pretty much anyone for anything on the clock. “Standing your ground” to these bastards is plain playing with fire. If you’re not perfectly white and very lucky, you’ll be just signing your own death warrant.