“Trumpism is not going to be defeated by inside-the-Beltway politicians,” he said.
Most of them are totally fine with most everything that’s happening. They have all the tools to keep their stock portfolios stacked, they never cared about poors, and they get to campaign on “omg look how awful.” They’re gonna whine performatively and not do a damn thing to actually stop a single thing. If they had half a collective spine and a fractuon the moral fortitude Bernie does, we never would have gotten here to begin with.
There’s some people who just hate on Bernie regardless of what he says or does. He if makes no comment in this time of authoritarianism, you’ll say he’s useless. If he does speeches like he’s doing, you’ll say he’s useless- as many comments here currently reflect. He typically says things that have a moral core or decency to them. He’s of course not perfect. He also has to politically function within a broken two party bullshit system which, unless there’s a significant change to how it functions, limits how he can try to enact laws. But to many here he’s clearly damned if he does and doesn’t. I’ve read through all of the comments here so far and none of the people critiquing Bernie have offered up a tangible suggestion for what Bernie should be doing instead, rather just pointing out how ineffective they feel Bernie is. Bernie made a huge national culture shift to the left through his historic runs for president. He was stifled by the DNC and ultimately lost, but the enduring left of center message continues in many politicians running in the country on the Democratic side. I am not defending the Democrats as a party at all, but I’d argue Bernie successfully used the Dems to get his message across during his presidential runs, and now as an Independent continues to have a platform for left of center messages. Whether he’s sufficiently left enough or effective enough is the eternally tired debate with some on the left who, besides shitting on Bernie, don’t themselves offer solutions.
none of the people critiquing Bernie have offered up a tangible suggestion for what Bernie should be doing instead, rather just pointing out how ineffective they feel Bernie is.
People reacting to activism, in a nutshell.
He’s less than useless. His moment passed. He had two chances. The first time, him and his supporters failed to see the lengths that the Democrats would go to to subvert his candidacy. Cool. I get it. It’s understandable when building ground support and frankness and sincerity are the essence of what guides your success.
But then they failed to adjust to that reality in the interim and leverage that for a successful 2020 run. I can’t imagine being owned so hard by the DNC and then just falling into line. Not just once from 2016-2020 but again from 2020-2024. His time came and went twice.
I don’t give a shit if he’s left or not. He’s politically feeble. The left may not be dead, but it’s worse off than basically everyone else including the Dems. And in no small part due to the strategic decisions of the Bernie campaign and the left’s decisions to fuel it.
It is super easy to say Bernie is useless and then offer zero solutions yourself. I genuinely ask- who’s out there doing it better? What should he and others be doing instead? The left needs constructive organizing, not negative take downs with no counter points or real world solutions as alternatives.
I’m saying Bernie missed his moment. There is no better because we don’t know what to do with this moment. We haven’t built anything outside of Bernie and that failed.
Anyone who thinks they know what to do isn’t recognizing what was lost when the Bernie campaigns failed. And maybe that’s what’s needed. To really see clearly how the Bernie moment failed to connect with the American public. We can complain that it was the Democrats fault. But damn if didn’t fail in important ways as well.
This reply is exactly my point. And…? So he’s not sufficiently left and/or effective enough for you. What is the solution? It’s easy to dump on others, and a hell of a lot harder to actually produce answers. I’ll also add that there’s a lot on the left who propose pie in the sky answers that resemble little in the way of constructive, real world, “how does this get done in real life” type answers. I’m on the left, too. I’m all for solutions. Let’s hear them. I’m beyond “Bernie is a shill” and “Bernie is useless”. Let’s hear your genius plan then for how to better this country. Be constructive.
For one stop following false idols. If Bernie was for real he would have fought Hilary and Biden to the end. He didn’t. He folded and started touring for then right away with the lesser of two evils talk. He came and took all that grassroots money and organizing and handed right over to the DNC. Bernie comes out when the people are angry and need a lullaby and the democrats need more money.
I have no doubt Bernie (if he stayed true to character) would have won both times as the democratic candidate if not for DNC being obstructionists and him not folding, but he folded. In 2020 he could have made a 3rd party viable, but he folded. He should have run 2024 with the state of everything, but he backed Biden then Harris.
Why does anyone think that guy is now all of a sudden going to fight for them?
Never vote for democrats, people who carry water for democrats, or anyone who takes unregistered foreign money. It’s that simple. They will never advocate for real change. Tell all your friends and tell them about the significance of 1972. And source your news from a wide political spectrum of real independent media.
I heard them described as ‘Limp Dick Democrats’ today.
And that’s pretty fitting.
Yes, when you equate it to a fear that men understand, then you get the “ah” moments of enlightenment
This isnt correct, the libs are not frozen, they dont mind what is going on. Its the leftist that are doing anything right now.
Name one effective thing leftists are doing.
Didnt AOC just host a massive rally that helped to prevent space karen from ransacking the department of labor with his likely H1B visa doge goons?
AOC is a democrat and not a generally representative of leftist ideology.
The democrats are a center right controlled opposition party and AOC is one of the farther left voices in it that refuses to get in line when told to do so. Yes she has been disappointing at times to a leftist like myself but shes our last hope outside of an armed revolution at this moment.
Ahhh… so you’ll claim the democrats that you like as leftist, regardless of their political affiliation? Is that how this works?
We don’t have a leftist party to be affiliated with, so by your logic, leftists don’t exist.
How is that by my logic? That doesn’t even make any sense. I said nothing at all about leftists not existing, or being affiliated with any party.
Seriously… can any of you hold a concert with anyone without creating straw men?
My point was that you all seem to hate democrats so much, but yet- claim any democrat that you happen to agree with. AOC is a democrat and not a leftist, regardless of whether or not you affiliate with any party.
Your reading comprehension is a little bit wonky there my fellow hooman.
Aoc and a few others in our government are the farthest left when compared to the rest of our representatives and leaders. I myself am somewhere between an anarcho-syndicalist / marxist/lennenist / communist and unfortunately we dont have representation that fully aligns with my ideals within the us government. But when compared to the rest of our public servants Ocasio-Cortex, Illihan Omar, aryana presley bernie sanders and Rashida Tlaib are the only people in our government that have anything resembling a spine and or balls when it comes to the blatant fascist ideology that has creeped into our institutions and ultimately become blatant and emboldened as of late.
Holy shit this has become juvenile. “Hooman”? Really? What the hell is that even supposed to mean?
And to my point- regardless of what YOU align with, SHE is still a democrat.
Also- my reading comprehension is just fine as it is. But I think maybe you might need a refresher in political affiliation, because while she may be the closest thing to whatever nonsense you follow this week, she is a democrat and represents the Democratic Party- something you all are very, VERY vocal about you opposition of.
Which was the irony that I was pointing out- the same irony that YOUR reading comprehension clearly missed.
Now go on and enjoy the last word. I know how important it is to you.
While I feel like this is bait, lets just say they are the ones out here actively confronting it, maybe not in the spaces you are watching but they are on the floor and in their communities talking to the people and voicing their concerns. But to your point, they can not do anything alone, they dont have more then a handful let alone votes for anything more of “Hey this is the law, they are breaking it” but going after them isnt easy they dont have the bankroll the libs and conservatives have from all their corporate backers.
Again… name one EFFECTIVE thing.
My brother in society, how do you think movements start?
There’s not going to be a Blue-vested Donkey that flies down from the sky and smites Elon and doge. You’re not going to be saved, there’s nobody coming.
Until more people realize this, they’re going to continue acting with impunity while everyone acts paralyzed and waits for someone else to do something. YOU do something, acting cynical on the Internet isn’t contributing in any way in a positive direction.
Its the leftist that are doing anything right now.
Name one effective thing.
You’re not attempting to state a point, you’re sealioning.
They replied to you and stated what people on the left are doing. Asking the same question over and over again while not actually engaging in a conversation is just trolling and unwanted.
They didn’t answer the question. They just said some crap about how some people are talking to people about the things happening and “voicing concerns.” That’s not any more effective than what anyone else is doing- yet they claimed:
It’s the leftist that are doing anything right now.
… which is clearly implying that no one else is doing anything effective.
So… what I’m doing is asking a simple question to support a claim that was made by someone else. What effective measures are being done by the leftist that aren’t also being done by democrats and or anyone else for that matter?
Hell, even conservatives are gathering to oppose Краснов.
And now, for some reason, you’ve chosen yourself to be the one to step up and speak on their behalf? Only you’re using the tired and painfully transparent tactic of derailing the question by personally attacking the person asking by falsely accusing them of bullshit to keep them on the defensive.
I’ve argued with thousands of versions of you before. So I’ll ask again….
Name one effective thing leftists are doing that no one else is? It’s a simple fucking question, genuinely asked. So don’t accuse people of sealioning because you don’t like being held to scrutiny.
And while you’re working on that, how about you familiarize yourself with that sealioning definition of yours and see how what I’m doing here doesn’t resemble it in any possible way.
Someone needs to take a page outta VP trumps book and start dog shitting on how bad hes making it for the every day person. Direct the hate those people have to the ones fucking us all and a revolution will happen. Itll be an uphill battle for sure, but the big trumpers are small minded and once they are negatively affected and are given a new target, they’ll jump at it if you can convince them they’ll benefit.
Edit: forgot the word ‘it’, oops.
There needs to be a voice organizing this! Bernie would be great, however i dont think he has it in him to be like that. Thats why AOC (Alexandria Ocasio Cortez) needs to become a firebrand and galvanize any forward thinking person to push for change and not to accept anything less than better.
No more lesser of the two evils. We need to become better than we are.
A giant “fuck you” to every movie and TV show that’s had a character based on/inspired by/parodying AOC and keep putting that character up against the protagonists in some way
Is she a perfect politician? No, and I wouldn’t trust anyone who came across as a perfect politician. But it definitely feels like she’s intentionally being at best turned into comic relief and at worst villainized at every opportunity
The perma stun proceeds as planned
Bernie is right; politics needs to focus on the socioeconomic (“tangible”) difference for the people. Generating income for the people is what’s important.
He gives us focus on a problem so we can focus on the solutions. This is what populism is supposed to be, someone uniting us under one call to action, one message, and we all link arms and say with one voice that we want a better world.
The problem: wealthy robber-barons have taken over the country and rampant capitalism is undermining literally everything about our society and won’t rest until there’s nothing left to extract from a population.
The solution: https://guillotine.dk/pages/drawings1792.html
edit: the single, stinging downvote reminded me that even mocking threats against our oppressors isn’t “civil” and that if we really want to actually benefit from the wealth we generate for others, we should just sit down, shut up and appreciate the fact that literally everything is going to be a paid-subscription model designed to make sure you don’t keep a dime of your own work and effort. I promise I will be a better servant for the landowners and just work the fields like a good serf.
Didn’t Trump win because of “the price of eggs”? Seems to me that people are struggling and voting for whatever they think may help them, so there is probably a huge group of people who could be swayed by Bernie, right? One can hope lol
Some are getting enthusiastic, but if you look at the past decades: one realizes that it’s the same small group/ type of people being motivated and excited again and again, with zero effect seen years later.
The federal government and many states are not democracies; any strategy that assumes this will not work. Any movement that will not fix bad voting systems will fail.
Some are getting enthusiastic, but if you look at the past decades: one realizes that it’s the same small group/ type of people being motivated and excited again and again, with zero effect seen years later.
Big changes that become extremely popular and supported by the public and are largely looked back on by future generations as positive or even necessary are often instigated and initiated by small groups of passionate people who are genuine in their desire for a better world.
Do not underestimate the power of small groups of passionate people who want to make the world a better kinder place. You can’t bribe these people, you can’t distract these people, you can’t silence these people, you have to jail and kill every single last one to stop them from agitating the shit out of the general population to get normal people to fight for better treatment for themselves and others. Every single one of these people is from the perspective of an authoritarian dictator a nightmare to deal with since like a catastrophically deadly virus, it only takes one of these people spreading the contagion uncontrolled and unnoticed to tear the body apart.
The federal government and many states are not democracies; any strategy that assumes this will not work. Any movement that will not fix bad voting systems will fail.
Agreed, I don’t mean to downplay the gravity of this situation, but on the other hand I think many people are comfortably past the point of needing to hold on to the structures that define the status quo. Government does not exist once the majority of people stop believing in it a basic level. Violence and control still exist, and they yet may win the day, but no matter what happens in the realm of physical bodies struggling against other physical bodies in the realm of ideas they have already lost and that means that no arrangement of threats or violent systems of control will truly ever be stable.
I take hope in that.
are often instigated and initiated by small groups of passionate people who are genuine in their desire for a better world.
These people have either a working democratic system already, a plan to force that to change, or the ability for organized violence.
The main problem with this sort of movement, and indeed most of the liberal USA online political community is that none of those apply.
I am not trying to negate the worry and fear you are speaking to, it is rational, things are looking very grim in the US and lots of other places too (a lot of places because of the US ughh) I was just trying to point out that good people don’t need a functioning top down government/hierarchy to be good people. Communities will persist and individuals will perish, along with rugged individualism as a pseudo-religion.
Now is the time to find and connect with the people in your life that don’t look to rules to understand how to be kind, but rather look to the heart they wear on their sleeve and extend in vulnerable expressions of trust to odd people who don’t quite fit in. Those people exist and they will always exist.
Which isn’t to say that you are wrong or that things are going to be good, or that good people are going to win in the nearterm.
Now is a time to look towards Indigenous voices, Black voices, voices of minorities of disabled communities, voices of people with unusual minds, lives and bodies. These people are used to living, fighting and persisting in this kind of reality, it is only the rest of us that are newly born into a much scarier world where things we thought were safe actually want to hurt us for reasons we have no control over.
I agree with your sentiment and feelings.
But unless there is good governance, or a plan to create good governance, it’s not political here, only common sense in what you are saying.
Politics means changing the current governance, which these movements cannot because they are too kind, gentle and naive. Activists I talked to in the last few years, people of different backgrounds seem to have an amazing trait of speaking true to their causes yet have a childlike faith in the very people who oppress them to run fair elections in many states. Or absent that, a failure to speak on that publicly.
One cannot do politics by voting unless there are accurate ballot counts that pass United Nations standards
And I think those living in the states which do have real democracy are affected by those which are not.
Until then, I think it’s good that people are banding together as more of a community; just don’t call it effective politics in the level of national or many states
Until then, I think it’s good that people are banding together as more of a community; just don’t call it effective politics in the level of national or many states
Fair and again I think your critique is a super important one, I am responding because I think what you are saying is important. What I am trying to suggest is that maybe we shouldn’t strive for movements that work on the level of states or federal governments right now, now is the moment maybe to work along vectors that exist as alternatives to those structures of power. I guess in a way that is what you are saying is necessary, I think we are both speaking to the existential need for a progressive embrace of radicalism in this moment.
I can agree with that.
One of the reasons we (in the USA) are in this mess is the collapse of community structures, both along ethnic and general lines. What I witnessed decades ago, with grassroots and community outreach, is not possible today due to how many times people have moved, changed careers and adapted to new technology ( the USA in the last two generations had more change than Europe in the first industrial revolution, by many metrics, and after such changes it takes time). Its why local politics is often not talked about.
So anything that is community building, is good, and a step toward better lives later. And I totally support that, in whatever form
People like AOC and Sanders that are going around to different states and online, explaining to people how to stand up and resist, how to say: “this is not normal, but it is also not the time to feel helpless and defeated”, should be emulated by the entire Democratic party.
AOC is definitely doing what you’ve said. But while some of what Sanders is doing is that, I think the important difference is that he’s actually going around to people who have historically disagreed with him and saying, “This is how the people you voted for are betraying that vote. We need to work together to stop them.” We need both from the DNC, especially depending on their constituents.
But I was told that the Harris campaign trying to court traditionally Republican voters was a mistake.
Harris: “I’m just like you! I own guns, and I’m scared of all the same things you are. See? I’m on the same side as people leftists hate!”
Leftists: “…wait what?”
Bernie: “Look, we probably disagree on a lot of things. And we’re probably never going to agree on them. But Trump is going to get you hurt, and I want to help even if you’ll never vote for me.”
Now, what are the softer conservatives (non-MAGAs) going to say in response to that? Obviously it remains to be seen; maybe a lot, maybe not much yet. But I bet it’ll help someday.
But I was told that the Harris campaign trying to court traditionally Republican voters was a mistake.
Courting by trying to be republican lite instead of courting them with alternatives.
^^^this. All of it.
because Harris tried to court them by doubling down on xenophobia, transphobia and a genocide, instead of trying to unite them with the fact that our true enemy has always been the corporate billionaires who own our politicians. There’s an obvious reason why the Harris campaign didn’t go with that message, which I leave as an exercise for the reader.
Trump voters, more or less, face the same economic issues we do. They just don’t understand them, and they don’t understand why voting for fascism isn’t going to fix those issues. Trying to get them to understand is an excellent and admirable goal. I’m not certain Bernie will succeed, nor do I have the patience to support him in this endeavor any more, but I wish him luck. I also don’t think it will matter anymore, as Republicans have already said they’re ignoring their constituency, and I don’t think we’ll have fair and free elections ever again.
I get your /s, but bruh. Harris going on tour with the Cheneys was a terrible mistake. Bernie holding rallies and town halls in poor red districts and explaining to people how the richest man in the world bought the presidency to literally rob them of what little they have, not a mistake. There is a huge difference between the two.
There is a difference between explaining how someone is getting screwed and saying you’ll fight with them against getting screwed and saying you’re a more friendly version of the person that’s about to screw you.
Bernie is doing it in a way that doesn’t alienate his base. He’s not pretending to be something he’s not, and is approaching Republican voters with authenticity. He’s not betraying his values or the values of his base. If you can’t see the difference, I’m not sure how to help you.
Which Bernie base are you talking about because the ones from 2016 and 2020 definitely believe he betrayed his base and all of their values both times?
You mean by endorsing Hillary and Biden? I had the impression that it was a minority of Bernie’s supporters that felt that was an unforgivable betrayal, though of course I could be wrong. Personally I don’t agree with those decisions and wouldn’t have done that were I in Bernie’s place, but it isn’t enough for Bernie to lose my support and I suspect many others feel the same way.
It was. They didn’t hold their base. Also, they decided to “court” the intolerant, even tho there might be some tolerant, but traditionally Republican, voters.
LOL
We really need to start developing ways to primary the hell out of any of the democrats in Washington who continue to do nothing, or rather who are actively being passive because all they care about is the rich donor money. If they started feeling the heat from the chance they could lose their position to a challenger they’d start to change their tune.
Could have had two terms of this guy now
Two terms with him not looking for a 3rd…
Or he wouldve been so wonderful, the people pushed to have him for a third. Roosevelt stayed in so long so we’re not opposed to keeping someone for more then two terms.
True but he’s also the reason for the rule.
Bernie is a great speaker. He’s very direct and speaks plainly. It’s effective.
I love Bernie, but he isn’t effective… hopefully this time he will be, but I don’t see anything he says being shared online
He’s one person, you can’t change the system without the people being on your side. After the Watergate scandal, and subsequent
ReganNixon resignation and evisceration in the media, fox News showed up.Between Fox News and all the other misinformation floating around today, the landscape is much different than when people like Martin Luther King Jr. were involved in the civil rights movement.
Basically, it’s easy to lie and sling mud, but much harder to fight with facts when the internet can spread lies at a blistering speed around the world through social media.
Regan resignation
Oh man, that’s the timeline I want to live in!
(It was Nixon… but I get the confusion, both were evil fucks)
Whoops, yeah, got the name wrong. Good catch
Edit: I get them confused bcz they were both evil pieces of shit.
We are watching one man change the system without the people. So, I disagree. Bernie just needs to say aloud what we are all thinking.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. Of course his rhetoric and abrasive disregard for the law has emboldened others to be more direct in their hate, but if Trump were to die today these problems wouldn’t just magically disappear.
Thats the problem; there’s a lot of people who aren’t thinking the same things that Bernie says. Those people give Trump his power. He’s nothing without a backing.
There’s a lot of politicians and corporate media who aren’t thinking the same things Bernie says. There are a lot of people – including quite a few who currently support Trump – who would be thinking the same things Bernie says, if they became aware of the possibility.
That scares the fuck out of both the Republicans and the corporatist Democrats, though, which is why even though Bernie draws huge crowds he gets such little media airtime.
What? Trump isn’t doing shit by himself. He’s got a plethora of zealots and other Nazis carrying out the entire Project 2025 plan. He’s got tens of millions of zealot voters rabidly defending everything their dictator is doing.
And that’s the thing a lot of people don’t understand. Trump is the figurehead for a whole movement. That’s the scary part.
He doesn’t have that much support for his actions. He just lives in a country where nearly everyone does nothing to stop him. You aren’t. I’m not. I’ll bet no one here is doing anything besides screaming. Maybe that used to work, but it’s not now. Republicans at Idaho protests are literally telling the crowd “your voice doesn’t matter”
And they’re right.
It’s simply inaccurate to say that Trump and Musk still doesn’t have popular support. You’re in too much of an echo chamber if you think that everyone’s against them right now. The vast majority of his voter base is tap dancing in glee.
I never said everyone. Maybe stop hallucinating the conversation.
Trump is not changing the system by himself. He is enabled by thousands and thousands of people propping him up. Project 2025 is written by a bunch of lawyers, and neo-christiofascists. If it was just Trump by himself, the movement never would be as successful as it is.
I would also argue, this has been the culmination of 50 years of federalist society scheming. It didn’t just appear out of nowhere with Trump. He’s just the festering wound at the center, and a symptoms of a much larger issue.
You’re seeing it right now. That’s what we’re doing here
Bernie needs 2008 Obama level attention or this isn’t going to mean anything.
And yes, that’s why I am here too. But, our numbers are too small.
He won over a crowd of Fox “News” fans.
A pig with lipstick could win over that crowd.
well that is Bernie’s role.
Act the part full of piss and vinegar and eventually tell you to vote for the fimal corporate dem.Don’t get mad at Bernie because the people won’t act. He can say the most correct, moral and ethical things imaginable; it doesn’t mean shit until people stand up and fight for it.
And since we’re considering roles, what’s yours? To piss on any and every semblance of progress because it doesn’t meet your exact moral criteria? lol
Bernie did not have to capitulate. But he did.
Hate being that guy, but going to be anyway- as much as I like Bernie, he always seems to talk a lot and yet, never manages to do anything. It’s always, “Bernie doesn’t like this thing,” or “Bernie had stern words for this person,” but nothing ever happens from it.
He’s like if Anonymous was a government employee.
This is more accurately a right wing talking point about Bernie. A quick search will turn up many articles such as this one from the 2016 elections. One thing to keep in mind is that he doesn’t introduce as many bills as some of his peers, but has had great success in passing amendments to bills.
Perfect? No. Unaccomplished? Absolutely no.
I wasn’t trying to say he’s unaccomplished. Not at all. But the news always likes to prop him up as the one true savior, and nothing ever comes from it.
Bernie cooking as usual
