• Matt Blaze@federate.socialOP
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    12 days ago

    @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org It now seems hard to believe that for the first 50% of my life I lived with an entirely rational background fear that all of civilization might end at any moment with less than 30 minutes notice, possibly by accident.

    I lack the vocabulary to describe it adequately.

    • Mark Bryant@infosec.exchange
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      12 days ago

      @mattblaze@federate.social @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org

      I was an Army brat. At 8 years I dreaded the drills, because I already knew they were useless. The only place I ever lived as a child where they weren’t done was “nowhereville” Arizona while my father was in Vietnam. I was (thankfully) too young to understand why Christmas came before he left that year. Just how serious was it my generation Z and millennial coworkers want to know. In 1963, before I was born, my father called my mother while he was stationed in Anchorage and said, “Take the kids and the car and get out of Anchorage now.” She did. My mother was the strongest person I’ve ever known. I feel the dread coming back, but not because of the old reason, but because of the very old reason. If it’s not H5N1 it’ll be something else - maybe even something we thought we’d licked because time has a way of making history repeat. Tempus fugit, momento mori.

    • Patricia Aas@social.vivaldi.net
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      12 days ago

      @mattblaze@federate.social @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org I’ve been wondering if active shooter drills are the duck and cover for later American generations. A repetitive drill focused on possible imminent death. I can’t imagine that anyone comes out of that unchanged.

      • Matt Blaze@federate.socialOP
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        12 days ago

        @Patricia@vivaldi.net @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org In many ways the active shooter drills seem worse. Duck and cover was about the random threat of total annihilation at the hands of impersonal, out of control global powers. The shooter drills are about the random threat of personal annihilation at the hands of your neighbor.

        • Personne@ciberlandia.pt
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          7 days ago

          @mattblaze@federate.social @Patricia@vivaldi.net @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org

          Reminder: your neighbour was radicalised and manipulated by Facebook, Twitter and YouTube algorithms pushed by McKenzie consultants and the top brass of tech companies for profit and an ideological agenda (and Fox News, OANN, etc.) and an automatic weapon was put in his hands by Republican legislators, the NRA and the Supreme Court.

          The radicalised, racist, bigoted ideology behind the trigger was pushed and riled up by political representatives and their sponsors.

          There is responsibility to be assigned, this didn’t spawn in a vacuum.

    • drewelmore@mastodon.sdf.org
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      12 days ago

      @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org I lived my early years in Santa Clara Valley under the shadow of that radar station. The fear of nuclear annihilation was very real to me. Nevertheless it was remarkable to be able to see the radar dish revolving from miles away on the valley floor, and noteworthy when they decommissioned it.

      @mattblaze@federate.social, one of the things I appreciate about your capture is how harmless it looks, and mundane.

    • David Schuetz@infosec.exchange
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      12 days ago

      @mattblaze@federate.social @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org I grew up inside the DC beltway, so it was pretty palpable for me.

      Now I’m 10 miles from the northern Virginia data center wasteland, and feel a similar threat.

      • Matt Blaze@federate.socialOP
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        12 days ago

        @darthnull@infosec.exchange @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org Native NYer here, so yeah, I know the feeling.

        But if they want to destroy us, perhaps the most effective thing they could do is leave the data centers running…

    • M. Grégoire@cosocial.ca
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      12 days ago

      @mattblaze@federate.social @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org
      Nuclear war is still the greatest danger facing the world.

    • Rodger@mastodon.social
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      12 days ago

      @mattblaze@federate.social @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org I was living in Scotland when Sulzberger was still talking about acceptable amounts of Europe to be annhiliated in a “Theatre Europe” exchange.

      I was going to a US school and the students were very cavalier about this. It was truly bizarre.

      • 60sRefugee@spacey.space
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        12 days ago

        @nyrath @mattblaze @simplenomad “Duck and Cover” may account for much of the generation gap between the WW2 vets and the Baby Boomers. The vets knew from personal experience how hideous war was; but they also saw what happens to people conquered by totalitarians. The Boomers by contrast grew up with an existential fear of annihilation; to them militarism was suicidal insanity.

          • 60sRefugee@spacey.space
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            12 days ago

            @mattblaze@federate.social @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org The arms race was scary but as it turned out wasn’t apocalyptic. The WW2 vets who ran the world until about 1990 weren’t stupid or insane; they did everything they could to avoid nuclear war OTHER than unilateral surrender. And no, mutual disarmament was never realistic given the irreconcilable differences between the two sides.

          • Carolyn@mastodon.social
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            12 days ago

            @mattblaze@federate.social Yikes, really? I thought it bad enough when they were telling you to CW your monochromatic images. I think it’s terrifying that someone with a very thin skin and no impulse control now sits on the largest pile of nuclear arms in the world. @60sRefugee@spacey.space @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org

              • Matt Blaze@federate.socialOP
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                12 days ago

                @CStamp@mastodon.social @60sRefugee@spacey.space @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org The thing about the escalation game is that every individual move is rational, but the game itself is completely insane. And we spend almost all our effort (especially in the 50’s and 60’s) strategizing each next move instead of finding an exit.

                • Simple Nomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org
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                  12 days ago

                  @mattblaze@federate.social @CStamp@mastodon.social @60sRefugee@spacey.space @nyrath@spacey.space Of course we’ve mainly been discussing USA and Russia in this thread. It is very possible that someone else could start something that simply “gets out of hand” and pulls others into things. Or USA with the right (e.g. wrong) leadership decides to play Team America: World Police to “fix the problem”.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

                • 60sRefugee@spacey.space
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                  12 days ago

                  @mattblaze@federate.social @CStamp@mastodon.social @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org 1/2: They tried to find an exit; but none logically existed. Ban nuclear weapons? Then we’re back to June 1945, when total strategic (conventional) war complete with burning down cities prompted the development of nukes in the first place. International control? The USA proposed it, the Soviet Union vetoed it (while secretly working to develop their own nukes). Mutual disarmament? The first side to cheat wins.

                  • Matt Blaze@federate.socialOP
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                    12 days ago

                    @60sRefugee@spacey.space @CStamp@mastodon.social @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org Yeah, Nuclear fetishists love to declare that there’s no alternative, simply nothing we can do. Much like the way there’s no solution to health care or gun violence.

                • dangrsmind@sfba.social
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                  12 days ago

                  @mattblaze@federate.social @CStamp@mastodon.social @60sRefugee@spacey.space @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org

                  Students in my class play a simple game called the escalation game which I started a couple of years back after physicist Max Tegmark claimed there was a 1/6 chance of a nuclear war starting over Ukraine.

                  The first time we played we had 1/7 teams end in nuclear war. This year half of the teams ended with a nuclear war.

                  It’s more about the competitive nature of the players than a real estimate of any probability of course.

                  It was very convenient that the first year my boss was in the class and I was being evaluated for my teaching abilities and we got 1/7 vs. Tegmark’s 1/6. Phew!

                  See Ellsberg’s book The Doomsday Machine.

                  PS Most estimates of the annual probability are lower, generally below 1% but of course not zero.

                • Steve Bellovin@infosec.exchange
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                  12 days ago

                  @mattblaze@federate.social @CStamp@mastodon.social @60sRefugee@spacey.space @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org Have you ever read “Wizards of Armageddon”? The “logic" behind some of the decisions was seriously insane and often driven by quite narrow interests. For example: initially, the (US) Navy’s submarine-launched missiles were inaccurate, so they advocated a city-destroying strategy, since that was all they could hit. The Air Force denounced that as immoral, not because they felt that way but because they could come close to military targets. Later, the Navy had more accurate missiles, so they preferred a counterforce strategy. But then the targets, e.g., missile silos, were hardened and warheads were very plentiful, so attacking cities with multiple missiles or bombers was preferred by the Air Force.

                • 60sRefugee@spacey.space
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                  12 days ago

                  @mattblaze@federate.social @CStamp@mastodon.social @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org 2/2: the problem ultimately is, what do you do about nuclear weapons in a world in which nation-states still fight wars?

          • Todd Knarr@mstdn.social
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            12 days ago

            @mattblaze@federate.social @60sRefugee@spacey.space @nyrath@spacey.space @simplenomad@rigor-mortis.nmrc.org I don’t think I can defend the arms race itself. I can, though, point out that developing an alternative means not just one that’s resistant to Putin or Kim Jong Un, but one that’s resistant to Kim Yo Jong (who worries me much more than her brother does).