One time, I put my hand out to stop a kid from running into the street.
Most people were like “Woah that kid almost died.” But one Karen looking woman had a “How dare you touch that child” look.
I’m not going to stop saving kids who run into the street. But it did make me question when to involve myself or not. And I can see a lot of people hesitating because some fuckface has something stupid to say.
Yep. People have strange selective views on things.
I was standing with the car at the crossing where it enters the main road. A kid came racing down the bike path from the local primary school on his scooter and tried to get around my car without wasting speed, i.e. slowing down. Physics said: “NO” in no uncertain terms, and the kid kissed the road in front of my car. I got out to help, but he already got up, probably more annoyed about loosing speed than anything else, answered negative on my inquiry if he was hurt or needed help, and was off like lighting.
Two days later, the police was at my door, responding to a neighbors claim that I had run over a kid that day…
I could imagine that neighbour just heard some noise, looked outside, and then just concluded, you must’ve hit that child, from what the aftermath looked like…
A man stopped my son with his hand from crossing at the signal because a car didn’t see him and could have mowed him down. I think a lot about how that could have gone badly if the man had second guessed himself for even a moment. Legally and socially, we need to be on the side of anyone who makes a split second decision to help in a crisis.
We are, it’s called Good Samaritan laws.
Exactly. As much as I believe in being a good person and trying to stop others from coming to harm, there is now a not-nonsignificant chance that I end up being prosecuted for something as a result of stepping in to attempt to save a life. It deincentivizes such activities.
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I’ll reference this comment in the trial.
Nah man. I won’t go near kids. Not my problem… If they die because of stupidity… it’s just thinning the heard.
You inferred one look from a stranger experiencing a traumatic event, that apparently wasn’t reinforced by conversation with her after the fact!? I don’t think you should modify anything about your instincts or responses…
You psychoanalyzed him from one comment on an Internet forum without a single reply or anything?
See how that sounds?
Uh, no? No one’s analyzing here! I basically told them to trust their instincts, rather than defer to the minority opinion of “all men are pedophiles” (based on their interpretation of the Karen’s response). Same advice I would give male lifeguards who would hesitate in possibly saving a life because maybe one person would be hyper-sensitive to any contact. Do what’s good and true and right immediately, and deal with haters later…
Yea, guess not.
👏🏼
Nah, cause those haters could put my ass in jail.
So no, I will assess every situation. I ain’t touching a woman who’s down.
Thank the assholes of the world for that… And also the coworker who flirted with me, and when I didn’t flirt with her, she accused me of sexual harassment and I got fired - 30 years ago.
The shit is real, (shitty) women have made the bed, they can lie in it.
Oh boy…
All it takes is one person to accuse you for your life to be ruined. Such is the reality of being a man.
Accusations ruin plenty of people’s lives, regardless of gender.
Men’s more than women’s, tbh. Accusations of SA never go away, even if you’re proven innocent.
Source for accusations against men leading to quantifiably worse outcomes than accusations against women or NB people? I haven’t seen the research that backs up your assertion.
Don’t you know? Every woman who is middle aged and doesn’t give an appreciating look all the time I want is a misandrist Karen.
I am hesitant to put my hands on the chest of a woman who hasn’t given consent.
One of the few cases where consent of anything can be assumed is lifesaving of a person unable to respond. One of the first steps of cpr is to seek a response to ensure that the person is unconscious before then confirming no pulse.
But yeah I get why it’s awkward
Yeah but the mob around me watching me touch her breasts might not know that.
I’m not CPR certified or anything, but I think if you’re just grabbing titties you’re probably doing it wrong.
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Can you post any example of a mob attacking someone for performing CPR on a woman?
Seems like a pretty wild assumtion that you will be attacked for helping someone in a life threathening state by some nebulous “them.”
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You’ve NEVER seen someone mis-perceive help as harm?
Not CPR, no.
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Nope, not once.
For sure! But I didn’t say you WERE grabbing titties, just that you’re perceived to be.
I mean just getting the electrodes on for a defibrillator you have to lift their shirt…
Can you see that being perceived poorly?
Unlikely that someone holding a defibrillator next to someone passed out on the ground is going to be perceived poorly.
Unfortunately in a panic scenario like that, sometimes people don’t see things as clearly as they might normally.
And people aren’t great on a normal day either.
Not everyone is going to have access to a defibrillator.
You would think so, right? But the reality is that men are always assumed to have the worst intentions. Especially in hindsight. i.e. “he didn’t need to do that right? he must be trying to cop a feel”.
Same reason men aren’t usually kindergarten teachers, because they’re immediately assumed to be pedos.
I mean just getting the electrodes on for a defibrillator you have to lift their shirt
You also need to make sure their bra doesn’t have an underwire and remove it if there is.
Even though you’re joking I wouldn’t be surprised if someone did react like that. “Uhhmmmm, that’s no CPR, you’re just fondling her! I know because I went to CPR training.”
The instructors advise you to speak aloud your actions as you do them. Also helps if you have already levelled out instructions to the rent a crowd to perform specific tasks like send for help and get the defib and you three who said yes to cpr training let’s line up and take turns doing cpr.
…of course, the training to be comfortable giving these instructions is not really done.
Absolutely!
And what if you’re outside a bar and everyone is drunk?
Unfortunately life doesn’t provide ideal scenarios, not to mention that under the duress of what you’re doing you may forget steps.
I’m not saying that fondling an unconscious person is the same as cpr, but that perceptions are funny things.
Then put whichever Karen looks fiercest in charge of compressions. Either she’ll get in there and do them, or she’ll demur, in which case you say you will and she should watch so she can start when you get tired. That makes her your witness. Don’t forget to tell someone else to call emergency services.
By the time you try to convince any Karen to do anything, the person would have died.
Good point. On the other hand if you tell her to start, and when she starts to object you say fine I’ll do them until i get too tired, she’ll feel like she won the argument which is a step in the right direction.
Wise.
If you’re touching her tits, you’re not giving proper CPR. Proper CPR happens just below the sternum. That’s well below any kind of bra band. If her tits are that low, she’s either an EE cup or 80 years old.
Huh, I looked it up and checked out the instructions and diagrams of several websites. Every one of them said to place your hands on the upper part of the chest and every image showed their hands between the nipples.
I heard the saying: if you didn’t break a rib you didn’t do CPR right. So I’m pretty sure it’s not beneath the sternum
Proper CPR happens just below the sternum.
Wouldn’t that be the hemlich?
You need to compress the chest, so pressure needs to go on the sternum. If you’re pressing below it, the only thing you’re compressing is their intestines, which is not gonna help anyone
Okay but we’ve already established that it’s not about what you ARE doing, but what people think you’re doing.
Perception.
Wouldn’t that break the xyphoid process? Below that is where you Heimlich. Above, on the strong center bone, is where you do chest compression. Also, as a haver of boobs, I can vouch that they will have enough space between them when she’s flat on her back and braless that you can put your locked fists between them on that bone and shove the heel of your hand towards the floor.
onsent of lifesaving attempts can be assumed, not of anything
COWS. “Can you here me?” “Open your eyes.” “What’s your name?” “Squeeze my hands.”
Understandable, but you only need to do it if there is no pulse. If you are doing chest compressions to save their life, I am sure the majority would be quite happy with not dying. You don’t need to take off their top, and you are pressing on their sternum rather than their breasts. You can’t really mistake CPR for anything else if you are doing it correctly.
You don’t need to take off their top
Well, you do if using AED. Tom Scott has video on those too: https://youtu.be/ecVHYg4_vZw
I know, but I was just assuming chest compressions, no other tools. If you’re strapping electrodes to an unconscious person, and the machine is talking you through the CPR steps, it’s even less likely to be assumed to be anything than what it is.
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You would think that, but the reality is different.
You can’t, that doesn’t mean that some white knight in the crowd doesn’t.
While I agree the risk is low, it’s not zero.
Youre afraid to save a persons life because there is a near zero chance that a very unlikely hypothetical situation may occur? Youre okay with letting someone die because you might get verbally chided, or worse, have someone misunderstand and be slightly rough with you? Wow.
I honestly can’t imagine being this scared of the world.
You can’t say “near zero” you don’t have the numbers.
It depends entirely on circumstance.
And you know that.
But it’s wonderful that you want to judge me as a keyboard warrior. I applaud how tough you are. Have a nice day.
Please, give me any numbers that show people have been harassed, threatened or injured while performing CPR on a women.
You consider it an unlikely but possible threat. I would like to see what data informs that threat to you.
I expect its none, and instead you just want to feel persecuted because “women standing up for themselves in modern society makes me scared, so im going to pretend thats why i wont help a women that’s dying.”
Again, fear driven and sad.
We’re both aware that the numbers don’t exist and aren’t kept.
Suggesting that’s a fault in my argument but not yours is asking me to provide evidence to prove your point wrong. “Burden of proof” fallacy if you will.
But that’s not the point. Plenty of people get accused of impropriety for doing less than lifting a woman’s shirt…. And if I have to apply a defibrillator, it’s not going to do much if I don’t get it under her shirt.
We both know that reaching under her shirt can be perceived poorly especially if someone doesn’t notice the defibrillator.
But I’ll back up my statements with references
Will you do the same? Or will you continue to ask me for information to back up your arguments?
You made the suggestion that it was “near zero” and now you’re asking me for proof that it isn’t near zero.
Youre making the claim that there is some danger here, and your defense is “I can’t find any proof there is danger here?”
The simple truth is that there is no danger in this circumstance, but if you accepted that you would have no argument for not assisting a person dying.
Your article points to a 45%/39% male to female assistance rate. The article doesnt give exact numbers, but says some women are less likely to perform CPR on women for fear of harming them. So if we say of that 6%, 3% are women that dont perform CPR for the above, we have 3% of men who are afraid to try to save a womans life because of a non existent threat. It sounds like youre one of those 3% of fearful men.
Id ask for the dying womans sake, that you push past your fear and help keep another person alive. Be strong, for them. Be brave, for yourself.
Fear is the mindkiller. Dont let it control you. Do the right thing instead.
You’re the one who claimed near zero, onus is on you.
Verbally chided? Getting sued for SA and getting your life ruined doesn’t really seem like “verbally chided”. Yeah, I’d probably let people die because my life is more important.
Yes, I am.
I’m not risking jail over this crap. Lost a job over it once, so I have personal, first-hand experience with the bullshit.
I’m pretty sure most places in the states have laws protecting people but there have been people who were sued for giving cpr to someone who wasn’t very grateful.
Good Samaritan laws.
CPR does not save lives. It preserves a dead body until an AED or ambulance can bring it back to life. You need to remove her shirt and often bra (if there is a wire it must go, otherwise only if in the way) to use an AED so if some item of clothing is in the way don’t worry about removing it.
Note that the above is generic CPR training that doesn’t respect local laws which can say something different.
CPR absolutely does save lives. The success rate outside hospitals is around 10%. That’s thousands of lives saved every year.
Please do not say CPR does not save lives, it 100% does. And in the United States our Good Samaritan laws protect anyone from liability if they are acting in good faith trying to help someone.
I’m a paramedic in the United States, hold a certification as a flight medic, nothing I can bring, in a helicopter or an ambulance will do anything for anyone if high quality CPR isn’t performed.
To break things down, yes in adults early defibrillation does make a huge difference but in kids it is literally high quality CPR that saves them. If you’d like I’d be happy to break down the details of resuscitation, but without CPR until I can get there and attempt resuscitation, then no matter how much I throw at someone to try to get their heart beating again, they’ll still be brain dead.
My CPR instructors put it the way I wrote it to encourage us to spend more effort on getting the AED and paramedics there fast. If you do CPR before the AED/paramedics is on the way you are wasting time, but getting those has been started CPR is important. However this is clearly semantics, I think we are all in agreement that CPR is important.
Not all states have “good Samaritan” laws. Most do, but if you live in the exception you might suffer harassment after doing CPR, including go to court - odds are the court will throw the case out, but it will still be annoying to do the right thing in those states. Though even lacking such laws, the odds that anything will happen are low.
Sorry forgot about this post, but it us an important topic to me. I’m only speaking for the United States All 50 states and the District of Columbia have a good Samaritan law, in addition to Federal laws for specific circumstances.
And I agree some of this is just getting into semantics but yes get an AED if one is available, early defibrillation is without a doubt the best way to increase survival rates also activate emergency services as soon as possible there are things we carry that can help if the patient is receiving adequate CPR prior to our arrival, those steps are crucial. But ensure that you minimize any time spent not provided high quality CPR. Without blood flowing to the patients brain, it starts to die. Once the brain is dead there is nothing in modern medicine that can revive it.
I don’t have an argument if someone is concerned about consequences for helping another person. I do what I do so I can sleep at night knowing I did what I believed was best and I did it to the best of my abilities. If I have to go to court then so be it, the bonus for me going to court is at least I’ll get to meet someone I’ve helped successfully resuscitate, that alone would make going to court worth it, independent of any verdict that is rendered. But that’s just me, I’ve had to pronounce a lot of people. I’ve had one or two go into cardiac arrest in front of my and then after treating them they talked to me during the ride to the hospital and I know I’ve had a handful of people that made a full and complete neurological recovery, but I’ve never gotten to meet any of them, which is also fine, but it would be neat to get to talk to one of them and hear their side of the experience.
If you have cpr or aed training…and a person is unconscious, consent is implied. Especially if you follow training. You felt for a pulse and/or they were not breathing, you will not get sued in this country. If someone manages to get it to court, they will lose.
I am a certified CPR and AED , a registered WFR and just had a training class on the matter. As long as you follow proper protocol you are ok. And I’d like to add, as a man, yeah, I’d be nervous also exposing a womans chest in a crowd, people are stupid, but you can probably save a life.
If you’re doing CPR they’re effectively dead before you start. If you’re the only one there, no witnesses unless you manage to save her. If you’re not alone, you should tell them you’re going to start CPR and order them to call 911 or 999 or whatever. Or volunteer to call while they start compressions. Then you can take over/take turns and vouch for each 's intentions.
I am hesitant to put my hands on the chest of a person who hasn’t given consent.
Someone who has no heartbeat automaticlly has given consent to receive CPR.
Bystander: She’s apneic and has no pulse! I’m beginning CPR!
Commences compressions
Patient: Uh actually I have a boyfriend
“I was trying to save your life.”
“Ugh are you still talking to me?”
I think the average person can tell what’s going on if they see someone prone on the ground and someone doing chest compressions.
I used to think the same. Then trump happened.
You would think that, right? But no. If you’re a guy, you automatically think of all the ways you can get accused of SA, even when you’re genuinely trying to help. So most guys just don’t. It’s not worth the risk.
What country’s this? Shithole as it is in other ways, in the UK you can’t be prosecuted or sued for basically anything if you’re resuscitating someone.
I would love to live in that universe of yours were the average person is well informed and rational.
Conversely, we had a call for a woman passed out in a car called in by a bystander. We arrived and she was still seated in the car, with a man doing one-armed compressions on her chest. It looked bad … until we got closer and saw she was both awake and speaking normally to her “savior”, and his CPR was on the level of “movie CPR”.
We figured he would stop on his own once he realized she was awake: he didn’t. We figured she would in some way indicated he needed to stop, or at least react adversely in any way to the man pushing (weakly) on her chest … she didn’t. We had to tell him to stop.
To his credit I think he just saw someone down and got tunnel vision. Based on his face the realization of how absurd it was hit a few seconds later.
Super facts
I live in a very strict and conservative country and once a young girl passed out in front of everyone. Her sister was panicking screaming at her to try to breath. I’m usually a savior vigilante type of guy whenever and wherever the situation but sadly at that time I was wearing shorts. So my immediate reaction was to nope out and pretend I didn’t see anything. They had to bring another woman who was working close by to do CPR and resuscitate her. The girl then survived obviously. I later had feelings of guilt that I did not step in to help, but in the same time I could’ve been jailed for touching her and worse get beaten by everyone there. what an awful dilemma …
Just take the shorts off before helping
Was it illegal there to touch a woman while wearing shorts?
I believe it’s more the fear of looking informal or unprofessional. Without more formal clothes, he was afraid of looking like a random chancer copping a feel instead of someone trying to save a life. Pretty silly in retrospect but definitely a possible fear in the moment.
I don’t know why but my brain went the direction of “it’s harder to hide a random boner in shorts” but don’t ask me why my brain is fucked that way.
It’s not you. Saying ‘wearing shorts’ is why you didn’t give CPR is fucking stupid.
He said he could have been jailed or beaten for touching her. The shorts probably just made the situation worse.
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Some US states do not have Good Samaritan laws. This means that you could save someone’s life, they could sue you, and they could win. It’s pretty fucked up.
This sounded strange to me, so I looked it up. This Wikipedia article suggests all US states have a good samaritan law, and some extend that further by requiring bystanders to reasonably provide assistance. However, who is liable and to what extent appears to vary. Additionally, interactions with other state laws could complicate things.
All that said, I admittedly don’t know much about good samaritan laws beyond this article.
Some of those laws are more recent, I believe. I got CPR certified in the 90s and the police officer instructing the course did indeed warn us to be careful about saving people as we could possibly get sued.
If I had to guess, it was a symptom of the sue-everyone-for-everything craze in those days, crossed with state laws that didn’t yet provide explicit protections for good samaritans because you generally don’t try to harm someone who went out of their way to save your life.
FYI if you look at the actual numbers, that frivolous lawsuit situation was manufactured by the media. Lawsuits have been in near continuous decline since that narrative started.
I’m currently certified and we are told that unconscious means consent and once you determine they’re not breathing (only criteria) then you perform cpr. I’ve been certified for over 7 years as a dispatcher and we often provide these exact instructions. Since we deal with the whole of the US we use national protocols which are valid throughout the country (emd epd protocols) and unless you know for SURE they are breathing you perform CPR every time. Doesn’t matter if they have a DNR. Unless of course they just had a seizure then you wait. But if you can’t confirm breathing or you say they’re snoring we are going straight to chest compressions. I’ve been trained by some of the most knowledgeable people who I was lucky to have the privilege to learn from. This training has served me very well.
The course I took this summer gave similar guidance, and dispelled any worries about getting sued for helping.
Interestingly though, the instructor said we should not provide breaths mouth to mouth without a guard if we suspect drug use, or even just don’t know the person. Apparently fentanyl has changed that landscape.
Doesn’t matter if they have a DNR.
Uhhh, what’s the point of a DNR then? Let me die if I want to, ffs.
Someone calling 911 for a person with a DNR isn’t going to be a good source of information on said DNR. A dispatcher isn’t going to attempt to verify the DNR is valid through the phone with someone that’s panicked, so “just do CPR” is the safe course of action.
If you get a DNR it needs to explained to your family what it means so they at least know what to do. And even if they freak out EMS/a nurse/etc will see the DNR and not continue resuscitation.
It’s fully possible that the cop instructing the course didn’t know the law at all, especially a federal law.
Do you have expiring CPR qualifications, or are they valid for life?
I don’t recall specifically, but it was a requirement for a job with the city and taught by the police and county EMTs, so I’d guess the more formal Red Cross one. I didn’t keep it up after I left that job so I’m sure if there was an expiration date, it passed long ago.
I did another one this summer and it expires in two years.
Huh Wisconsin is a duty to rescue state
“I didn’t see anything.”
That does seem to be the prevailing attitude in Wisconsin
We need to ask Jackie Chiles.
My understanding of it is that CPR has a lot of negative side effects that we’re usually not told about or aware of, like cracking or breaking a rib during compressions.
Not that this is in any way good, but I think some have successfully sued their saviors due to complications from CPR.
I think a law should be passed that says you can’t sue someone for complications of saving your life, but, you know…
@OceanSoap @alienanimals Sounds like it’s time to push for Good Samaritan laws in every state. We have one in California. And yes, there can be side effects, but these aren’t limited to GSs. Medical personnel can inflict them as well (damage with intubation comes to mind), and if the injuries are consistent with life saving measures, they are protected. Why shouldn’t GSs also be covered?
I’m cpr certified and was told this during training. Maybe it’s not general population knowledge though.
Throw in that CPR is effective in 10% of situations and maybe there are reasons why people don’t act. 10% is wayyy better than 0% so it is always worth trying.
Every state has something.
But that only provides legal protection from lawsuits after the fact
Can I get some qualifications so I can send them a bill, if this happens?
Honestly, I don’t find it all that surprising. Men are wise to err on the side of caution when it comes to even the appearance of improper behavior and I could see how many might freeze up in such a situation, even if they knew CPR.
I remember a woman talking about how some kids were running around naked near their house and he had to call her, and she was kind of grumbling about how he wouldn’t just handle it himself. I had to explain that I would have done exactly the same. There is no WAY as an adult male I’d be accosting underage naked children and asking where their parents were, etc., unless they were in danger of freezing or other dangers. This woman was acting like her husband was being lazy and/or a wuss. He was just using his head.
You can thank our society for this bullshit. It is because we put women on a pedestal in our society and men have been relegated to being the butt of jokes or the quiet backbones of the working class who have no right to complain, and if they dare not fit into those two categories, they are then accused of toxic masculinity or something similar.
This comes out of puritanical sexual shame and nothing more. Religion poisoned people’s minds regarding sexuality.
52% versus 55%. 61% vs 68% in public places. Not a lot of difference, within margin of error even.
The sample size was in the tens of thousands (39K total cases according to the original EUSEM article) so it would be extremely surprising if there were no real difference. You could easily say it’s within margin of error if there were only a few hundred cases examined, but we’re talking about tens of thousands here.
Important to note though that the data only accounted for Canada and the US.
Another important caveat is that we’re assuming the data collection process was not flawed or biased, which is maybe a legitimate concern. But it’s a separate issue entirely.
Having a larger sample size doesn’t necessarily decrease the margin of error. It’s impossible to say if the difference is statistically significant without crunching the numbers.
Meh… Even without seeing the data collection methodology, or the analysis, I’m calling shenanigans. Thats an almost non-existent difference - how do we know the cases where women didn’t get support are primarily women-only spaces (say women’s gym, yoga, etc)?
Someone’s using this slight difference to push a narrative.
What do you mean by “margin of error”?
This isn’t a pole. This isn’t self reported numbers. Those are real life numbers
It is still a sample, which is therefore subject to a margin of error. Unless you think this data accounts for all CPR given anywhere to anyone, ever.
For example, if they’d only sampled one man and one woman, and the man reported receiving CPR and the woman reported not, the “study” would show 100% of men and 0% of women receive CPR. Staggering “real-life numbers”!
All of science is just a sample. Population trends can be observed in smaller subsets.
I’m aware. My point is that “real life numbers” still have margins of error. The person to whom I’m responding implied that “real life numbers” aren’t subject to a margin of error.
Pretty much all data has margins of error, including “real life data”. The margin of error just often doesn’t matter.
But is it a poll?
It doesn’t matter, a margin of error exists regardless of the data source.
To add to your point with a very clear example: If I did a study to check the average age of people in a country where I mainly checked the age of people living in retirement homes, the margin of error would be huge even if I got the age from hundreds of thousands of people.
In more general terms: there can be systemic errors due to methodology that no increasing of the number of samples will remove.
Thank you, that’s an important point to make. There’s this belief that big samples are more relevant than small samples, but that is far from the truth.
The methodology is what’s vital to the data’s significance.
The more significant finding here is 40% of people don’t get CPR - I think this mostly comes down to public ignorance. It’s not like most schools make their students CPR certified. I got mine through Boyscouts, but a lot of people don’t really get that kind of education.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that explains the gender difference, too. Due to ignorance a lot of people might not really grasp the difference between chest compressions and fondling someone’s chest 🙄
In germany, you need to take an 8 hour first aid course to get your driver’s license.
It’s better than nothing, but it’s been 5 years for me and I’m not sure if I could still do it properly.
Which is another reason why drivers licenses and the FA course should be repeated every few years.
The amount of people who don’t understand road laws or misremember them is insane
I fully agree. People seem to forget that they are controlling 1.5 tons of steel at a ridiculous speeds and can easily kill someone if they move their hand just a bit too far.
And still my first aid teacher to get my German driver’s license said that the survival rate for people whose heart stops is worse in Germany than the US
Did they give numbers or define survival?
It was a few years back. He might have. I mean, he meant survival as in surviving. He was just lamenting that though people in Germany know CPR, they aren’t quick to come to people’s aid. I do remember him saying anecdotally that when someone hits the ground in the US a crowd of people forms trying to help, though they might be mostly untrained.
Seems plausible, I found americans to be much more open towards strangers when I was there in 2016.
I don’t know maybe because I keep it fresh in my mind for my job but it’s really simple. If you look up emd cpr (proqa) instructions they give yoy very good simple steps to follow depending on how you answer.
I got mine through Boyscouts, but a lot of people don’t really get that kind of education.
Unless you’re a kid or a den mom, you don’t have CPR training. It only lasts a few years.
Well, no, I have expired training. That’s still better than literally nothing, it’s not like the knowledge just vanishes. I think I could follow the 911 operator’s instructions pretty well.
… though actually, yeah, I probably should fix that.
Yeah you’re right, it’s definitely better than nothing. And yea you should take another course - it’s fun! Different instructors have different styles and highlight different things/experiences. I just renewed recently and was surprised at how fuzzy I was on some of the pop questions.
There’s more to it than that. CPR certifications only last two years (at least in the US) and there’s also the liability included with performing CPR that they cover in the class. If you perform CPR but are found to not have a current certification then you can get in a heap of financial debt as your not truly covered by the protections the certification can provide you, mainly around the “permission” to perform the act. Ribs can be broken and lungs can be punctured simply by performing CPR normally with the required amount of pressure needed.
In most cases good Samaritan laws protect people performing CPR regardless of certification.
Though yes, in my ideal world everyone would have up-to-date training paid for by the State.
Makes sense, you could save their life and catch a case.
Having a one in 4 chance that you won’t get CPR If you collapse in public is a disturbing statistic.
And only 19% of people who do get CPR survive long enough to go home.
*who need CPR
Lot of people get CPR when in reality they’re dehydrated, ODing, or something similar
Lot of people get CPR when in reality they’re dehydrated, ODing, or something similar
If you don’t have Narcan on hand, and they’re not breathing, rescue breathing might keep them alive until the EMTs come. If they don’t have a heartbeat, chest compressions might keep them alive until the EMTs come. CPR’s rate of success isn’t great in most circumstances, but it’s much better than nothing. No pulse, no breathing, their chance of death by the time EMTs arrive is essentially 100% without CPR.
I didn’t care about this statistic when my daughter needed cpr
While panicking I didn’t know what do do but call the emergency services, I screamed in terror into the phone, they were trained and instructed me and the wife to do what we needed to do until the ambulance came. My eyes get teary and my gut gets cold even writing this. My daughter survived and is as healthy as can be now.
This is even when my wife is an trained nurse that would have been able to handle the situation if it was not our daughter.
Nothing could have prepared us on how to handle the situation if we couldn’t call emergency services
The bystander effect is a real bitch.
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Well maybe she has a boyfriend
The puritanical culture we have is the ruin of everything. We wouldn’t be overly thoughtful about consent this and that if not for awful people getting away with sex crimes left and right, even in current day. Guess what? If you’re not a rapist, don’t hold yourself to the same stringent standard - do the fucking CPR and save a life.
I would love to see one example where someone was prevented from doing CPR by a bystander because “you shouldn’t be touching that woman”. I would put money that it has never happened.
Modern CPR training insists yiu have to announce what the fuck you’re doing because people will universally get the wrong idea.
You have no modesty when you’re dying- the underwire in a bra interferes with AEDs working, and the pads have to be on skin. For compressions you need to see where you are so you are, so the clothes come off.
It’s standard to drill that in, precise cause it has happened.
Hell. We’ve heard anecdotes of cops coming in and macing people giving CPR. People frequently assume the worst and act on it.
Modern CPR training insists that you have to announce what the fuck you’re doing because that’s the standard of communication during an emergency. When we’re running a code in the hospital, we announce our actions to the room, so everyone knows what’s going on. That’s just how it’s done
In a hospital.
When it’s a security guard whose probably going to be the only one taking action, because they’re the only one there that has any amount of training, that’s an entirely different scenario.
Or the coach or the teacher or whoever it is. CPR isn’t just done by doctors and paramedics, and there absolutely are plenty of lawsuits and accusations that come from people in the field misunderstanding what’s going on.
Outside a hospital, when a body hits the ground it’s chaos and confusion.
But that’s a team of people working together. Theoretically this is one person giving CPR.
Whether it’s happened or not, you’re also running into two big problems America has:
- People who act without thinking
- People with a hero fantasy, and also often a gun
It doesn’t have to have happened for people to fear that it will. In a nation where too many people carry guns, act rashly, and want to see their face on the news as a local hero, it just sounds too damn possible and risky.
Maybe so. But as someone trained in basic life saving I’m not going to let the fear of some idiot near me doing something extremely stupid stop me from doing the right thing in an emergency. If we all start thinking like that, then we’ve already ceded victory to them.
Not surprising. This aligns with other studies around women and cardiac problems. People have a bias toward identifying the symptoms that men show, and women often have a tendency to display different symptoms.
I… don’t think that’s the reason why people would avoid specifically CPR, specifically in a public place.
“I have asked people this question on my own, and I’ve been told by some that they don’t know where the [anatomical] landmarks for CPR are due to women having breasts,” Dr. Nicole McAllister, clinical assistant professor of emergency medicine at the Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center, tells Yahoo Life.
Many people who receive CPR training practice on flat-chested mannequins and learn that CPR should be performed across the breastbone and nipple line, she says. “Because people think of doing CPR in terms of a male-form dummy, some of this doesn’t translate well and they don’t feel comfortable doing it in the right spot,” McAllister says.
From the article. There’s also an expert that bring up your reason, and there are some more explanations given (people don’t realise it when a woman has a heart attack, people are afraid of hurting the woman)
I think more likely, this is what he was referring to:
But there are likely other issues at play too, women’s health expert Dr. Jennifer Wider, tells Yahoo Life. “One reason is a fear of touching another person without consent, especially a woman — this may discourage a bystander to administer CPR to a woman,” she says. (This reason came up in 2021 research conducted by the American Heart Association — people reported that they were not comfortable giving CPR over fear of sexual accusations or inappropriate touching.)
Yes, I mentioned that in my second sentence. The commenter was implying that it’s the only reason, though.
Woman get a bake shake from the healthcare system, but I think this is more about tits and people being afraid of touching them to do CPR…
*shake’n’bake
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Cool data point, but 7% doesn’t feel significant to me.
Cool data point, but 7% doesn’t feel significant to me
Probably because you’re not a woman that may need CPR one day. It’s easy to dismiss things that won’t ever effect you.
Probably because 7% is a small ass number. Give me a 7% statistic about nonbinaries, and we’ll see how many fucks I think it’s worth.
