cross-posted from: https://ibbit.at/post/81808
…the agents had demanded to ride along in the ambulance en route to the hospital. The driver replied that without arrest paperwork, they were not permitted to ride along. Agents continued to insist that the vehicle would not be allowed to leave until an officer was permitted to accompany them.
“I repeated again,” the driver said in their report, “that no officer is permitted to ride in the ambulance and that they can meet us at the hospital and that we needed to be let out of the facility. Officers then began walking away from me whenever I spoke. At that point, a group of 5-8 civilian-dressed men walked into the garage and just stared at me. No identification on any of them. I walked back to the ambulance and got into the driver’s seat. I flipped the emergency lights on and put the car into drive. I inched forward slowly out of the garage.”
A man described as being in civilian clothes and a neck-wrap then stepped in front of the vehicle and ordered the ambulance not to leave, according to the report. As more agents amassed about 15 feet in front of the vehicle, the driver assumed they were preparing to escort the ambulance off the property and continued to slowly inch the vehicle forward. But agents continued to obstruct the ambulance’s path. As of 9:39, a dispatch report said there were “50-60 fed agents completely blocking the road.”
At this point, the crew member in the passenger’s seat exited the vehicle to attempt to reason with the officers. After putting the vehicle into park, the driver began to exit as well. They said that as they opened the side door, “I looked up and suddenly the entire group of officers… were crowded around the open car door, some of them leaning forward towards me, inches from my face.”
The driver recalls that an agent “pointed his finger at me in a threatening manner and began viciously yelling in my face, stating, ‘DON’T YOU EVER DO THAT AGAIN, I WILL SHOOT YOU, I WILL ARREST YOU RIGHT NOW.”
I don’t think many people realize a lot of medics are young, like this is their first job, and they’re still pretty much kids. Yes they do amazing work, yes I and many others are tremendously grateful, but trying to simply help someone medically and doing the cops job is a ridiculous notion.
they also dont get paid much in terms of hourly wage too.
This sounds a lot like Israeli soldiers in Palestine. It’s slightly surprising to see ICE agents become the force of evil, knowing that they will make themselves and their families targets. At least the Israeli military can run back behind its walls when it’s off shift … that’s not how the U.S. pigs live.
That’s why they wear masks like the cowards they are
Yeah. I don’t want a civil war because I don’t want to live in a mix of allies and enemies with no clear front line. I bet ICE doesn’t want that either. Hence the masks, and deploying troops from one state to another. One of the oldest warlord tricks in the book.
If you are interfering with someone getting medical assistance, you are the bad guy. Outside of situations where someone is rejecting medical assistance for themselves, I can’t think of any exceptions to this.
As I mentioned on Bluesky: This is not just evil, but also dumb. Medics will not treat ICE personnel if they are endangered by just doing their job. The point of the social contract is that everyone works together to ensure that all people get to live a decent life. Abusing the doctors is a good way to be removed from the census, because they have better people to spend their efforts on.
The notion of a social contract is a little beyond these dumb fascists.
Or you know their buddies could just point some more guns at them to get them to do what they’re being paid to do.
Theres that Israeli training american “law enforcement” officers are so famous for taking. Along with their fame for not being required to understand the law at all and US law enforcement not hiring anyone with too high of an IQ.
The most surprising thing about US cops is how many tv shows there are that make them look like hard working, intelligent heros who just care about the community and have a deep sense of honor. Frickin joke.
its called copaganda, its no wonder a bunch of them shows suddenly showed around trumps 1st term. rookie, 911,etc are all part of the positive light on pigs.
other than the SHIELD, i dont think any network will try to replicate a show about CORRUPT cops.
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Time for hundreds of gun owners to show up at these protests.
They never show up for anything, except to strut around playing billy badass. They are completely useless LARPers
thats why ice is soley targeting blue areas rather than red ones. they dont want to anger the republicans.
Makes sense. They buy guns because they’re scared of people.
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I think we’re more at the point where they should be getting arrested by local cops. It says a lot that local cops are defending them instead.
Saying “I will shoot you” is illegal, no matter who you are. It doesn’t matter if they work for ICE, the FBI, the local police, or McDonalds; they should be arrested if they say that.
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I don’t get the logic of slowing down with people in the way. You’re in a heavy ambulance, they’ll move.
You’re in an ambulance, it’s your job to pick up the pieces. WTF are you on.
Well, if you go faster than they can move, you maim or kill them. Slowing down and keeping moving is how you get them to move. And although ICE may deserve what they get, an ambulance driver is probably not into hurting people with the ambulance.
Tell me you’ve never been a professional driver without telling me.
They act just like the Gestapo during naziregime: use exessive force, followvtheir hunches and will not be held accountable
ICE is a terrorist organization ran by a criminal.
Water is wet.
Correct, but the other statement needs to be repeated non stop
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IDF practices…
This shit is just a powder keg waiting to go off. All it’s going to take is one person to decide they’ve had enough of this in a situation like this and just floor it and run those assholes over and the whole country is going to explode. It’s just a matter of time.
Meanwhile it is a regular occurrence for right-wing dipshits to run their trucks through crowds of protestors and get away with little to no consequences. They end up being classified as “road-rage” incidents rather than the politically motivated acts of terrorism that they are.
they fully expect someone to shoot or kill and ICE degenerate, so trump can use more aggressive moves. also its a nice continious distraction from the epstein files. All this sudden amount of ice activity happened when they are on the verge of releasing those files.
I’m surprised America doesn’t have suicide bombers.
https://youtu.be/l3Mk5YgN9Tg?t=11
Sometimes.
That the silver lining to our ease of obtaining firearms.
we have domestic terrorists who try to bomb things and get away with it.
Yeah I can’t believe so many are fighting Trump by not fighting in this way. Genuinely impressed with my countrymen.
Well, whoever claps a ice agent at a protest will be condemning thousands maybe millions to die. And it will cause a ripple effect that could lead to more violence all over the world.
Honestly, it might be worth it. I don’t want to live my life in a MAGAT America. Of course, the price is that I have to be willing to give up my life to secure an America worth living in.
Yep, meanwhile on Lemmy we have people who don’t seem to understand what’s going on posting shit like “You all need to fight back! I thought you had guns to protect against situations like this!” The restraint people are showing by not doing that is frankly unbelievable.
Portland is the wrong place if they want violence. Just like the BLM protests, portlandians will mostly stand around and get shot at while dressed in ridiculous ways. Its probably the stupidest location to try and do a fascism.
If you check the post history of most people calling for violence, they all seem to have something in common.
i would say the russian side should be alot bigger. they eclipse the chinese ones.
That’s the goal. That’s what PeeWee German wants.
Exactly as Stephen Miller planned.
Yeah, I’m convinced they are actively trying to get some ICE killed so they can take the kid gloves off and go full occupying force.
If it’s not one thing it’ll be another. Trump and his handlers are not going to let go of the reins now that they have them.
If people never actually resist them, they already are the full occupying force.
“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.”
-Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts
It’s not a popular take in doomer circles like lemmy, but I legitimately believe that there is a “bloodless” outcome that results in the right absolutely crumbling. Not only that, I believe anything less will inevitably result in this exact situation repeating itself every hundred years or so until we learn as a people how to build a sustainable, equitable society that prioritizes human dignity over greed.
We need to learn as a society how to identify and reject fascist ideologies the same way we can look at moldy food and know not to eat it. And I think the Internet may be the tool that gets us to that point.
Until we get to that point, all democracies will continue to fall victim to these types of attacks.
Seems to me that we’re too self centered to get it right and we’re running out of tries. All thats changed in modern humanity is the scale to which we can eff ourselves. Otherwise we’re dumb apes shitting in our zoo enclosure as fast as we can, and stealin food out of each others mouths.
I legitimately believe that there is a “bloodless” outcome that results in the right absolutely crumbling.
How do you see this coming to pass?
I mean, for one I would argue that there’s already a lot of blood on Trump’s hands, and will be more if their budget plan passes, so the original quote is already moot IMO.
But as far as placing blame on the left, I think any sufficiently motivated population will outright reject the version of America that the right wants to build, and part of that build creates that motivation. The vast majority of Americans don’t want to be told what religion to follow, what books they can read in school, what words they’re allowed to say; regardless of politics, rebellion is part of American culture. I mean to say, I don’t think the “left” will be instigating anything, it will be the people generally demanding change out of necessity. If trump holds all the levers, then it’s just a matter of time before most people expect him to use them effectively. The more he “peacefully” extracts wealth to his oligarchs, and rolls out military rule, the deeper he’s digging his own…hole.
I don’t believe we reach a future of “hypernormalization” like in Russia. Our American myths are too filled with rebels for us to accept that.
But we’ve now seen both Nepal and Madagascar protest the govt completely out of office, in both cases supported by their own military, with minimal casualties. Of course in each case you now need to solve the power vacuum problem, which could go many different ways, especially if other world powers start getting involved, which is an exponentially harder challenge for the US.
it will be the people generally demanding change out of necessity
But how do we turn “demanding change” into actual change without violence? Trump and his regime have no care about what anyone else wants whatsoever. They won’t give in to demands.
Probably something like economic collapse as people start checking out and stop participating in society. People just start buying, and doing less and less.
Not saying this will happen, or is even a likely outcome. Just that it is such a path.
We need a society in which people are not able to obtain the kind of power that can allow for fascism to exist to begin with.
We need a hard wealth cap of something like $50 million including unrealized gains, and we need a leaderless society, where people who seek power cannot gain power. We also need all corporations to be owned by the workers and be run as democracies.
But we also need to lift up the common man by supplying all basic necessities free at the point of service, such as housing, food, water, healthcare, sewage, high speed internet, etc. along with a UBI that is livable so that people can work on the things they enjoy rather than wasting their entire lives away working for a faceless corporation for the majority of their lives.
Anything short of this will just lead right back into fascism as history has shown.
I would like to know what your idea is to get out of fascism without any kind of violence, though, because with fascism, there is no democracy available to allow for a vote to replace the fascists. Fascists are not known for willingly giving up power.
I agree with the first statement, the rest feels to me like an arbitrary list of nice things that I don’t believe is backed by empirical data, so I can’t agree that “Anything short of this will just lead right back into fascism as history has shown”. The “$50 million” number is arbitrary. And workers tend to not have capital to start/run a company, nor do they want to assume the risk associated with it failing. Is there a specific historical example of all those things being successfully guaranteed in some society that you’re thinking of? How is it going for them now?
I would like to know what your idea is to get out of fascism without any kind of violence
To stick with my original analogy, the same way I “get out of” food poisoning without puking my guts out for a time: I don’t eat it.
To relate it back to your first statement which I agree with, “We need a society in which people are not able to obtain the kind of power that can allow for fascism”. How do we do this? Democratically! We need a society of people who detest the signs of fascism:
- appeals to palingenetic nationalism
- the enemy is “strong and weak”
- “fake news”
- zero-sum social hierarchies
- fear mongering
- money as speech
- basically any attempt to combat economic hardships using any means besides addressing weath inequality
- etc.
Personally, I think we need to agree on a charter of some kind that has a feedback loop built in: as wealth inequality is relatively low, allow more capitalism, more risk, more innovation; and as wealth inequality rises, so too do corporate tax rates, guarantees on worker compensation, all the bells and whistles. If you’re a corporation who doesn’t like the tax rate, tough, we’ve all agreed that until the state of the society gets better, your ability to capitalize on it is handicapped.
“But why not always socialism, workers own all the things all the time?” The world is a big complicated factory of interconnected systems. We can’t hope to control it all even if we had a One World Govt running everything, much less hundreds of independent nations and cultures. At best we would create unintended emergent phenomena like black markets. I don’t think we should aim to control everything, we just ensure society sets up the right incentives, and the one thing that should underscore every incentive should be human dignity.
Homelessness should be illegal, in that we as a society should not be allowed to let people be homeless. It should be a crime against humanity for any society to allow one person to take billions more in tax breaks each year, while another person dies in the streets. Same for starvation or lack of healthcare. I would even go as far as to say, giving someone a job that is too mind numbing should be a crime. It’s one thing for you to work for the weekend, it’s another thing for it to be psychologically demeaning in its mundanity, which seems to be the ideal end game for many jobs: optimize out any way for the employee to mess anything up with the way that they are.
The part I don’t like to admit though is (without going down a second rabbit hole), I think the best way to achieve this cultural shift is through religion. We need a religion that emphasizes human dignity above all else. No other mechanism has proven as successful at shaping the behaviour of large groups of people.
This fucking Nazi needs to go meet Kirk in hell.
This is 100% the plan. It’s a ‘when’ at this point, not an ‘if’, despite the extraordinary restraint displayed when dealing with these fuckwits to date.
extraordinary restraint
Docility*
There’s absolutely some extremists who would martyr themselves.
Just saw them gas the chicago police for at least the second time while they protected ices retreat from protestors. then trump. gotta bring troops in because the chicago police aren’t protecting ice. and yeah the gas was thrown as they ran away. that is how they deployed it.
Look… okay, gassing the cops is fucking hilarious. But they didn’t do it intentionally and were aiming at the protesters so I don’t think they should be commended for that.
I think they are. They did that bait vehicle to get the protestors in the street in broadview. They want someone to get injured or killed and sure its acceptable to the administration if its ice but even better if they get someone local. I mean hes already talking about the need to “defend” the ice agressors but his argument will finally have some tenous substance if they can atually point to an injury or better yet a death.
I hope people at the No King’s Protest will all understand escalation is their goal, of course there’s a chance Yam Tits will make a royal decree that they’re all to be arrested to spark the powder keg. Which will happen cause Wormtongue, I mean Miller, says so cause evidently everything pro democracy is an insurrection in the US now.
They want a Reichstag fire.
Are we still pretending our Trump supporting neighbors aren’t cheering this on?
I know I stopped years ago
The national shitbag registry needs to be kept by whatever unions manage EMTs . These officers need to identify themselves just so their names are placed on the list and their captain can begin negotiating so that their families and home EVER get protection from fire, ambulance or cops again.
Until then, NO identified ICE member or their family gets support. Identify yourselves to distinguish yourselves or all face the same penalty. This is a targeted labour strike.
(Similarly, anyone impeding a real emergency vehicles gets on the list until a formal written apology replaces it in the file)
You do not impede real emergency vehicles just because you need to beat up and kidnap brown people.
I do like the idea of a National Shitbag Registry, so when these people move to a new neighborhood they have to go door to door warning the neighbors that they are a registered shitbag.
EMTs and Medics typically dont have unions unless the fire dept runs EMS, and they typically treat EMS as a cash cow rather than actually representing them.
Shooting anyone will send them straight to jail. They’re carrying weapons at their own risk.
I cant tell if this is sarcasm but that fully isnt true in america. They can and will just kill you and say you were threatening them. They literally shot a lady and left her for dead like 2 weeks ago
qualified immunity.
means they 100% allowed to whatever shit they want.
if it has never been done before, then due to lack of precedent they didn’t know it was illegal. and therefore no legal punishment
and if they do it again, due to precedent they have to use the punishment they used last time (no punishment)
it’s dumb, but that is how the system works in this shithole
QI is illegal according to the law as written and as passed, not as illegally amended.
I don’t blame the 1982 SCOTUS. I don’t think they had any reasonable suspicion that the congressional record and federal register don’t match.
Oh, SCOTUS knew exactly what it was doing with QI. Don’t fool yourself… After all, why should government workers be rewarded by ignorance of the law when that doesn’t apply to anyone else? It doesn’t even pass the 5-second test.
even worse, how come the people who’s job is to enforce the law, get to claim ignorance of it?
Trust me, i am fully aware
every time I explain it. I still doubt that, no system could be so stupid.
but it is.
if it was in a comedy it would be too stupid to be accepted by the audience. yet here we are
Literally even the producers would be like, “thats way too unbelievable and uncreative”
Yeah America is just cooked at this point, fascism took over.
The cops have been able to and have done this for centuries. America is what its always been, it is just turning on white people because the empire is collapsing and they need to maintain the threats.
They were fascist pigs in a lawless fascist regime, standing their ground in self defence defending the holy homeland against a high on drugs and woke media, fully armed and armoured, radical antifa foreign agent terrorist who outnumbered them one to dozens and was threatening them while advancing on them menacingly with clear homicidal intention (according to official sources).
If anything they’d get a commendation, a medal for bravery, and an invoice for the bullet (the victim’s family would also get one, why dip once when you can dip twice).
The only ones going to
jailsome inhumane privatised gulag here would be anyone reporting anything different than the official sources (as well as random bystanders and the victim’s friends and family).
