- cross-posted to:
- framework@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- framework@lemmy.ml
Please note that this is my experience and my opinion and mine only. Yours might differ and I’m glad about it because it means that this product reached its intended target
TL;DR: The FW16 is a better computer, but the FW13 is a better laptop
Long read:
I’ve had a FrameWork 16 for over a year and a half now. I’ve preordered it as soon as I was aware it existed. I lived it as a computer.
It’s the most incredible laptop I’ve ever seen. Want a numpad? Want no numpad? Want a discrete GPU? Want 16 or 96Gb of RAM? Want one, two, four SSDs? Want six modular ports? First party Linux support? They got you covered.
However, I’ve grown dissatisfied of this laptop pretty quickly despite wanting to love it so much. I love the modular concept, I love the idea of it, but I ended up not using it, at all. I don’t want a numpad, I don’t need or want several SSDs or a dGPU. And most of all, I find it highly impractical.It’s so massive. I’ve never had a gaming laptop, only thin an light laptops (for their respective eras). It’s too large to comfortably fit in most laptop backpacks, too heavy and pointy to comfortably lug around all day. Even if the modular plates around the keyboard and trackpad are well made and in reality as solid as you would reasonably expect for a touchable surface, slights imperfections can make it uncomfortable when used as a laptop and give a (false) impression of flimsiness. I ended up keeping it docked most of the time, which defeats the purpose of a laptop.
The raw CPU power is very nice, and the large case and multiple fans insure good thermals. But if I need massive raw power at my desk, I have my gaming PC.
The screen is huge and comfortable and super smooth, but as it’s docked, it just becomes a larger than average secondary screen.
The 6 expansion ports are great because that’s enough to have most ports basically permanently fixed on the laptop, without having to swap depending on use cases. Yet, being docked to a KVM, I have enough external ports already.
The battery is huge, but yet again, you guessed it, docked, no use, still the same pattern.
Therefore I decided that, as great as it is, the Framework 16 was not for me. It doesn’t fit my use case.
And that’s why I “downgraded” to the Laptop 13. After a few hours playing with it, I much prefer it as a laptop. It’s almost half the weight, fits basically anywhere, its rounded edges and unibody top cover are much more comfortable. It feels more… refined. Like a MacBook Pro from 10-15 years ago (before they became shit with their super slim, uncomfortable and unrepairable keyboards). Being their fisrt and most developed platform, most hardware updates hit the 13 before anything else.
Of course, it’s much more limited. The 4 expansion slots are nearly not enough for me but I would only need to swap on the go. Thermals are much more constrained and the CPU less powerful (I went with the 7x40u because the AI300 series don’t seem Linux-ready yet). The screen is obviously much smaller. It’s not nearly as modular. The battery is 20%-ish smaller.
And I don’t care. This is the laptop I wanted all along. A slim, lightweight, repairable, upgradeable laptop I can throw in a bag, dock in my “home office”, bring along on the couch, in bed, on vacation or on the weekends.
Anyway. Thanks FrameWork for the choice, for the opportunity and the amazing products you’re making!
OC by @Wfh@lemmy.zip
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TLDR: OP needed a bike but bought a yacht. Proceeds to explain how a bike is easier to park in the city.
This is the standard compromise with laptops.
If you want a portable computer to use in random locations small is important and so a 13 inch laptop (I don’t know why metric measures are not used - though note that likely nothing is actually 13 inches either) is about the best size - large enough that you can see the screen and get a usable keyboard, but still small and easy to carry.
There are a lot of laptops where that is not the use case though. My company issues me a laptop and tells me to take it home every night - if there is a disaster I have everything I need to work at home - since COVID this has been used that way, but even back in the 1990s companies had everyone brings their laptop home as part of their disaster recovery plan. In this case the laptop is mostly used at a desk, and carried in a bag the rest of the time: weight cannot be unreasonable, but you can have a fair amount.
I’d like to agree or disagree or make a comment or something, but Framework canceled my order because there ordering process is too strict with countries and payment.
*Their
Thanks for that.
I have a Framework because I ordered it through freight forwarding in the early days, and even managed some replacement parts a bit later. Now I want to upgrade but can’t because they implemented tighter controls which stop me ordering 😭
I have a 16 and I love it and plan for it to be my main system for a very long time.
But, it is a very big laptop. When I got it my plan was to give my 13 to my dad, instead I’ve kept it.
The majority of my time is on the 16, but I like the 13 for lounging about in bed or just in general having a very portable laptop.
I get a lot of use out of syncthing.
I had an HP 17 on a plane, trying to type a report. That was way too awkward. I asked my work for a 15 inch when I got back to the office.
I get wanting something smaller and more portable. As long as it’s not for gaming I like the smaller form factors too, one I appreciated was the acer aspire one mini laptops they had an Intel atom CPU and I ran BSD on it for years.
Thank you for posting, and I’m glad you’re liking the experience! At times I’ve considered switching to the 16 from the 13, but my use case is similar to yours, and I need to remind myself that the switch doesn’t make sense.
I hated the 16. Garbage QA, most notably the spacers that go to the left and/or right of the trackpad never sat flush with the case. Also at least one of the mainboard screw holes was stripped.
USB-A modules were extremely unreliable.
Display quality wasn’t great, uneven lighting or artifacts from some pressure points or some such.
Ethernet module was very susceptible to losing connection if the cable moved ever so slightly the wrong way, no matter how firm the retention clip was.
I sold mine and went with an HP ZBook G1A instead. Better in every single regard.
I also noticed this about the spacers. I actually wrapped them with a carbon-fiber-looking textured vinyl since I don’t need to remove them, and it ended up looking pretty clean. My display is one of the best I’ve seen, and I haven’t had any issues with the expansion modules you mentioned, so maybe that has been improved.
It’s unfortunate that your experience was subpar, but to say that an HP is better seems like a stretch. Ignoring the fact that HP is among the most problematic companies around (for more reasons than I care to mention), the laptop you’re praising doesn’t include the biggest selling point of a Framework, which is upgradability as components age.
I haven’t had any issues with the expansion modules you mentioned, so maybe that has been improved.
If you’re on linux and if you have a USB-A expansion module installed, run
sudo lsusb -v. Does it hang at any point, or does it complete without issue quickly?but to say that an HP is better seems like a stretch
It is better. Build quality is vastly superior, display looks much nicer, CPU/GPU are vastly superior, RAM speed and bandwidth are significantly better, keyboard is MUCH better, battery life and cooling capability and efficiency are better, USB works reliably.
The only things about the 16 that are better than this HP are raw screen size, ability for dual SSDs, not having a stupid fucking copilot key, and of course the whole Framework thing with modularity, and upgradeability. I don’t need the modularity as it has all the ports I want (except rj45, but not even Frameworks manage that without a protruding module), and I don’t need upgradeability with the Ryzen 395+ being so far ahead of nearly every other laptop out there, it’s gonna last long enough.
I hope Framework does well and keeps pushing their model, and maybe in 4 or 5 years I’ll take another look at them, but for now I’m happy with what I got.
So the issue seems to be to mostly be with the size of I’ve always gone with smaller laptops myself and had a desktop PC for more intensive stuff. I think large laptops are a bit of a dated concept from the days when people didn’t have iPads and phones and everyone just had a laptop that lived in their home.
I think it’s safe to say the type of work someone is doing is going to steer their device choices. iPads and phones just aren’t suitable replacements in a lot of cases and It wouldn’t make much sense to buy a framework 16 for an iPad workload.
