• Yetanotherpaolo@feddit.nl
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    51 minutes ago

    The freedom of religion to continue enabling child rapists.

    Perhaps all religion should die along with the cunts in charge.

  • Ginny [they/she]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    51 minutes ago

    I’m not a legal professional (merely an ill-informed amateur), and especially not an American one, but it seems to me like the judge’s order makes a pretty convincing argument that the injunction is legally warranted.

    Maybe we might consider that federal law might be the problem before we rush to accuse the judge personally of being a nonce?

  • Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca
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    1 hour ago

    Even more evidence that it is far safer to leave your kids with a drag queen (or king) than the clergy.

  • Kage520@lemmy.world
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    4 hours ago

    Okay. I definitely get where everyone is coming from here. We all want to protect kids. I’m not sure this ruling is in the wrong though.

    Here’s why. We demonize pedophilia to the point that people would kill someone that is attracted to children. I’m making a specific point here to NOT include child molesters. That’s a separate but very related issue. If we took the time to address the mental health issues that caused them to be attracted to children in the first place (eg, molested as children themselves, some other issue that therapy could address, etc), maybe we could stop them from going so far with their problem and actually save kids before they were abused.

    Since they really don’t have anyone to talk to ever, maybe a priest could curb their behavior and act as a counselor to stop further abuse of children. If left unaddressed, maybe the molester would continue with many more victims, and the priest could stop them at 1. But if they no longer felt they could talk to a priest, then they continue.

    Basically, as a country we should be doing MUCH better to stop pedophiles from dealing with their issues alone and help prevent them from actually molesting children. Failing that (since we are failing that), why are we trying to take away the next level of therapy for them? It makes no sense to continue to push them into a lonely corner and expect them to do differently. If the priests’ silence allows them to keep the molester from touching more kids, that’s a much better outcome overall.

    • dhork@lemmy.world
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      22 minutes ago

      The issue isn’t with therapy, or talking. The issue is what priests will do when they have evidence that a crime has occured.

      I have enough of a Catholic background to know that confession isn’t a “Get Out Of Hell Free” card. You are supposed to be repentant, and part of that is owning up to any crime you might have committed and turning yourself in. Because of you are confessing a crime to your priest, they can’t really be sure that you are truly repentant until you make good for your transgression with the legal authorities.

      But! Catholic priests have been caught diddling kids for years, and when the church found out about it, they preferred to deal with it “internally”. Instead of submitting the priests to secular authorities, they shuffled them off to some other parish to try to be repentant there. Often times, they just ended up doing it again. Where was the Catholic Church’s deeply held beliefs then?

      This is why there is so much hostility with the church right now, they can act all sanctimonious when someone tries to impose reporting requirements on them but we know that they have covered shit like this up in the past. Any goodwill they might have had being religious leaders is now depleted. Why shouldn’t we treat them like everyone else?

    • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      the mental health issues that caused them to be attracted to children in the first place

      Question - do we know this is the case? Or is it like other sexual affinities, like S&M or fetishism?

    • Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de
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      4 hours ago

      The law suppose to make them report child abuse, real one, that happened already. You can talk with your magic provider about how much you want to diddle kids, and he still can do 3% of what real therapist should be doing, if you want. The law was supposed to catch those who already diddle kids. Which nobody should be doing, no matter how much they want to.

      • Kage520@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        These aggressive methods are not working. We need to provide better mental Healthcare for all people. These aggressive methods will lead to more child victims, not less. It’s unacceptable that people are putting their own disgust over the wellbeing of children.

        • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          How much mental health care would have fixed Epstein?

          Also, mandating that religious orgs report it is not the same as punishing people for uncontrolled urges. Once the person is reported, they can get help. If it’s not reported, they then will keep abusing children until the are caught by someone else.

          Freedom of religion is not freedom to protect pedophiles.

          • Kage520@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            That’s a good point. I would be in favor of this if it was a gateway to better therapy and not as a way to punish them. Self reporting should not be punished. Definitely agree that priests should not be the ones doing all the counseling. Just making the point that they currently don’t have any options and this might be currently helping.

            • forrgott@lemmy.sdf.org
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              1 hour ago

              Gateway to punish abuse that had already happened.

              You keep completely ignoring the fact that this law was not about reporting urges, it was about reporting abuse. You are defending predators who have already abused a victim. Which is disgusting.

              • Kage520@lemmy.world
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                13 minutes ago

                Yeah it’s not a great thing. It’s kind of like letting a local drug dealer off Scott free because he helped take down a drug ring. It’s protecting a larger number of children at the expense of not punishing the guy who self reported and tried to get help. Doesn’t feel great but should protect more children overall.

    • stinky@redlemmy.com
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      3 hours ago

      Good point here: as a country we should be doing MUCH better to stop pedophiles from dealing with their issues

      Just throwing the book at people who hurt kids isn’t working. Kids are still getting hurt every day. There’s far, far more pedophiles in our society than anyone realizes. The reason they’re not getting help is because everyone says, “instantly to jail for life” instead of trying to figure out where the problem comes from. They stay in hiding, hurting people in secret because there is no support for them anywhere.

    • stinky@redlemmy.com
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      3 hours ago

      I agree with this: We demonize pedophilia to the point that people would kill someone that is attracted to children.

      Most people would make it illegal to have that attraction. It’s a slippery slope and I guarantee same-sex attraction would be next.

      • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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        2 hours ago

        It’s a slippery slope and I guarantee same-sex attraction would be next.

        How is that even in the same ballpark?

        It’s like saying it’s a slippery slope form killing nazis to killing socialists…

        • stinky@redlemmy.com
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          1 hour ago

          Because if it’s possible to criminalize attraction, someone will use that to criminalize attractions that they don’t like. Homosexuality would be a crime in the same year.

        • Petter1@discuss.tchncs.de
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          2 hours ago

          Depending on your body count.
          If you killed enough people, changes are very high, that you killed a socialist out of a misunderstanding or accident 🤓☝🏻

    • stinky@redlemmy.com
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      3 hours ago

      I would argue that the ruling is correct. Child abuse should always be reported. But it shouldn’t lead instantly to jail. It should lead instantly to therapy, support, counseling and a plan of action which protects the person and the children in their life from harm.

      • Kage520@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        Yes I hadn’t considered the reporting could be protected and not lead directly to jail. You are correct this should be the way. We just need to have a program set up to accept them.

        • stinky@redlemmy.com
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          1 hour ago

          It’s a huge relief to talk to someone who gets it.

          We have 130 billion dollars available to give to law enforcement. 800 billion to defense. And not a dollar to treatment and counseling for people with potentially harmful attractions? It doesn’t make sense. The first step should be discussion of the problem and potential solutions. I’d like to see research done into the attraction, find out if there are environmental causes (ie. preventable ones), treatment for people with the attraction (can it be replaced? is there a non-harmful maintenance that makes it tolerable without relapse?), and justice for the victims & families that includes more than revenge.

    • ameancow@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      No, we need hard-ass fucking laws to protect children because our moral-fiber as a nation has been eroded away deliberately by capital forces that would absolutely package underage children for consumers if they could get away with it.

      We are in a country where the average American thinks that one out of five people is transgender and many think that they are a threat to children, people who think our biggest threat comes from people in drag stalking public bathrooms, and yet are giving passes left and right to actual predators in positions of power. The conservative base in America broadly believes children are property, to be owned, enslaved, abused or used as desired. Right below this post is an update on Florida’s efforts to bring back child-labor on factory farms.

      We absolutely fucking need better, harsher, stronger laws to protect our vulnerable people, be it children or handicapped or elderly. Particularly from fucking PRIESTS who are one of the biggest groups of offenders who protect each other from consequence. Fuck off with this stinking mess we call “Christianity” in the United States, if Jesus came back he would be flipping every last table and smacking every “Christian” into last century.

      • Kage520@lemmy.world
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        1 hour ago

        Let’s rephrase. Think of talking to a priest in this case a really poor level of free mental Healthcare. You think the best response is to take that away? I’m all for that if it’s replaced with something better. If we aren’t doing that though, then sure, you’d catch a few molesters when it is first announced. Then the other molesters stop talking to their last resort free counseling. And they continue to mess with children.

        The entire issue could be solved with better mental Healthcare in the first place. I like the comments that suggested priests be required to refer these people to a program designed for them. Not straight to jail, but straight to better help so they’d top touching kids, and others will still come through and benefit as well.

      • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        moral-fiber as a nation has been eroded away deliberately by capital forces

        For the love of fuck, can we stop blaming literally everything on capitalism? These issues long predate capitalism.

    • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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      2 hours ago

      Since they really don’t have anyone to talk to ever, maybe a priest could curb their behavior and act as a counselor to stop further abuse of children

      I think that’s rather naive… A priest is far more likely to just get some tips on how to rape kids.

    • stinky@redlemmy.com
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      3 hours ago

      This is a tragically close-minded opinion. You sound hurt and angry. I hope you get well.

  • Plurrbear@lemmy.world
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    16 hours ago

    Wow! But if I “overheard” part of this “confession” as a “mandated reporter” BY FED LAW (confessionals are NOT SOUND PROOF), I can go to jail if I do not report what I overheard and the government found out I knew… straight to court!

    Yet, these fucks get a hall pass to keep fucking with kids “because of religion”, religion doesn’t give you the freedom to fuck with kids but the Catholics would know the most about fucking with kids wouldn’t they?!?! Appalling! Our nation is fucked!

    I mean, am I surprised when our “president” is a know pedophile who talked about his own daughter sexually and was besties with Epstein!? WHERE IS THE CLIENT LIST!? We know Drumpf was probs the invite NUMBER 1 and FUNDED it! 🤦🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

  • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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    18 hours ago

    Over the years, there were numerous lawsuits about the use of certain drugs in a religious context, and they were always shot down in the courts. THIS is where they choose to bend ?

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      4 hours ago

      I could be mistaken, but aren’t there are a handful of religions that have exemptions for religious ceremony? Or is that just Natives?

      • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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        2 hours ago

        Only indigenous folk, and that’s based on the fact that they are a sovereign nation. Rastas will still go right to jail for cannabis use.

    • chaogomu@lemmy.world
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      17 hours ago

      But you see, those other religions are pagan. This is a lawsuit brought by Christians.

      I really wish that wasn’t the justification these judges use.

  • PunkRockSportsFan@fanaticus.social
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    21 hours ago

    Perverse judgement from a perverted judge in yet another case of using perverted make believe superstitions as some perverse magical shield to protect perverts from facing justice.

  • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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    20 hours ago

    It’s weird how one group of people has such a warped idea of what “freedom” means.

    There was a really great article about the difference between Northern liberty vs. the Southern notion of “liberty”. The Southern is mostly about the “liberty” to rule over others.

  • Ann Archy@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    My religion says I can shoot politicians in the fucking face.

    And no, I don’t have to pay taxes on that.