I really liked lemm.ee because it didn’t defederate from the radical socialist and communist spectrum of political speech.
But the other issue with a bigger instance like lemm.ee going down is that as long as communities can’t be moved (including users and content) to other instances, the lemmy project will fail. Because then only centralization in a few big instances is viable, and those big instances are going to become valuable and sold to plutocrats.
Community migration is possible on Piefed https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45876492?scrollToComments=true
To be fair, lemm.ee didn’t really act as host to any major communities to begin with. So communities aren’t really the loss here, and it could be that having at least a few big active communities on an instance is a key part of maintaining its long term viability.
Also, all the text posts and comments from lemm.ee will still remain on other instances. I’m sure the instance could also back up content, if the specific admin so desired to re-host.
Yeah the biggest communities seem to be movies and television, and my guess is that they’ll be gobbled up by lemmy.world. But every community migration like currently looses subscriber members, and split communities mean a lack of interaction. Social network require a critical mass, and also benefit from centralization. While federation works great for users there isn’t a real solution for communities yet. There is a lot of randomness involved, like who gets to be the first to make a community might be a bad mod in the long term. For example the reddit r/climate mod is a climate skeptic. Not sure if there is any better solution.
I’m just wondering how the best design for this problem would look like. Maybe the mod of a community could have some kind of key that he can transfer to another instance and automatically transfer all the user subscriptions and link the post history with them.
For me, the bigger problem with how Lemmy is federated is the way comments and posts have unique IDs for every instance. You can’t easily find a comment or post from one instance on any other instance. With users, you just have /user/username@instance, what we need is /post/###@instance or /comment/###@instance. Instead, we just have /post/### and the ### is different everywhere (I think it’s just sequential for every post/comment the instance federates).
Maybe there’s some reason they did it this way, but it feels like the better solution is to have the original host instance decide the number, then every other instance just use their number and their @instance.
Pretty sure that was on the bug list 2 years ago.
That’s a disturbingly good point.
Community migration is available on Piefed: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45876492?scrollToComments=true
I hope you’re not calling tankies radical socialists or communists. Because .ml et al are authoritarian instances, not lefty.
I interact regularly with “those ml” instances and don’t meet any (or not many) of people like you describe. I do believe it’s mostly rumors, propaganda, cherry picking and liberal prejudice against socialists.
Do you still know what is real? The principle behind freedom of speech is about hearing dissenting voices that might tell you a truth that the mainstream won’t.
In case you’re curious, I also believe “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” so I often support or at least not condemn countries like Russia or China or Iran in their fight against the authoritarian US Empire. I’m a realist, pacifist and materialist, we already know what the regime change sought by the US will do to the people in “shithole” countries.
The principle behind freedom of speech is about hearing dissenting voices that might tell you a truth that the mainstream won’t.
I also believe “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” so I often support or at least not condemn countries like Russia or China or Iran in their fight against the authoritarian US Empire.
This is why I downvoted you.
Edit: looks like I pissed off the tankies. You people are transparent, FYI.
I’m an .ee refugee. I just hope this stuff doesn’t become the norm where instances get shut down
Wherever you guys migrate, please stop concentrating the userbase around lemmy.world, that’s exactly what we’re trying to avoid with Lemmy to begin with. The best thing you can do is go to https://join-lemmy.org/ and choose a server that’s not in the top 10 or so. This will also help avoid things like the admins/mods burning out
Yeah I was gonna try out piefed and mbin but if those don’t work out for me any lemmy instance suggestions? J was thinking lemmy.zip or any instance who only defederates with spam/illegal stuff
Apparently db0 and lemmy.zip are two such instances that broadly federate
Ooh good to onow
lemmy.today doesn’t block any instances. But db0 is good too, I’ve been happy with it.
.wolrd is the only instance I have been able to stay on so far.
Every smaller one I try bans me for minor disagreements or wrongthink. They all feel like exclusive clubs that they don’t really want people to join, but will then whine about low user numbers.
The larger spaces have admins that are more often held accountable and put on blast, it’s just the nature of these kinds of spaces.
I did my part. Time for my retro gaming lemmy era 😎 already bought all the stuff I need to put freehdboot on my ps2.
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There are some sites that show what instances are de-federated from that. People can use that as a guide as well, if there are instances they don’t really want feeds from due to their underlying circumstances. They should also check the admins and modlog so they don’t run into surprises later down the line.
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Lemm.ee was my home instance. I will miss it dearly. I wasn’t as active as I probably could have been, but I’m still sad.
Shit I’m out of the loop, is my account being deleted or something?
Yes. End of june.
Out of loop? We had posts and posts about lemm.ee going down, how did you missed it?
Anyway, end of June lemm.ee is going down, which means it won’t be accessible! If you want to access lemmy after that, you have to find a new instance. Have a look here to search for a new instance.Don’t forget to export your profile settings from settings > Import/Export Settings > export.
Been busy with moving and stuff. This is the first I saw anything. Thanks for the info.
I’ll be honest i don’t get what people differentiate so much about instances. most of the time i don’t even notice what instance people I’m talking to are from, what instance the community in browsing is from, what instance the meme I’m viewing is from… is it about the software you’re using that you’re so aware of these things?
To me, it’s mostly how an instance is ran. How it makes its decisions: defederating or not, and with whom, how they handle complaints, how they handle bans, etc. makes a difference in both the communities it hosts and its members.
There’s also the matter of user culture. Some instances, like Beehaw, Lemmygrad, and Hexbear are known for a certain user culture. Some users might steer clear away from certain instances because of that perceived user culture.
And then there’s the issue of defederation stance. It might not be readily apparent, or affect your user experience in a big way, but for some users, it’s a factor. This is also where lemm.ee made its mark. It basically used defederation as a last resort, and some users were drawn to that.
That’s why I was here. I’ve already made a few more accounts just to have backups in case this happens again, but I really really enjoyed how I could see most of the Fediverse, and could block with my own settings if I didn’t like the way another instance was ran. I will miss it. :'-]
I’m in the same boat. I do not like defederation. So where do we go? Any other instance with the same openness? I don’t know details about instances, but I know I’d like to avoid .world though.
Is blocking an instance the same as defederation? I found lemmy.today the other day and they don’t block any instances.
I honestly haven’t put too much thought into it yet, but I joined sh.itjust.works and db0 because I’ve seen some of their users around and thought they were cool. :O
.ml is basically federated with everyone
Community cultures, mostly, as trimmed and pruned by admins. Most instances I don’t notice massive differences in, with a few exceptions.
If your display settings don’t show the full username, there’s no way to tell really. Voyager and Alexandrite show then by default. I think people just like to root for teams inherently and the interinstance drama is kind of fun. If you’re on Lemmy a lot you start to recognize people and their main instance, there really aren’t that many of us.
Different admins; some instances federate with some, some block others.
Well, that is unless they are coming from .ml 😒
Rich coming from a .worder
You mean the biggest instance that is still federated with close to everyone?
There is a reason for that you know.
Yeah, because they’re the one that tries the most to be exactly like Reddit, so all the Redditors end up there.
unless its coming from .ml, hexbear or lemmygrad. the comments cant get annoying.
With .ml you can sometimes still have a good discussion. Maybe because the community is so big. And not everyone who joins knows ml stands for Marxist-Leninist.
But those other 2 are chock full of extremists.
But those other 2 are chock full of extremists.
I always saw those two as something like far left indoctrination camps where people learn and practice astroturfing techniques.
Childish people love to argue about childish things.
Thank you, not just for showing respect and appreciation to the people behind Lemm.ee but because these posts are a magnet for the kind of trolls everyone should block before migrating elsewhere. 👌
Here’s an entitled ass to add to your collection lol https://sh.itjust.works/comment/19001249
They sound like they want to speak to the manager.
That’s an unfortunate situation with slrpnk.net. Not having anyone able to physically access a server for weeks was really tempting fate, though.
Thank you to all the admins and donators who kept lemm.ee going.
Oh ……oh God, why!!! Why!? It’s too soon!!! 😭😩It was great while it lasted, and I thank those that ran it. A breath of fresh air after initially being on an instance that decided to nanny its users by defederating from instances for no good reasons.
I have a backup account on sdf.org, so I’m now using that as my main instance. Thanks to those who run it.
Yeah, SDF is a good choice (and a very interesting org in its own right)
I’m sorry but the best is dbzero. Lemm.ee was a damn good instance too though
I think it adds to our mystique that not even our regulars can spell it correctly :D
I will now try to misspell it in a new way every time 🫡
The lemm.ee admin is a shit hot developer though, his instance was generally more robust than all the others, and he helped other instances when they had various problems. It’s a shame he wasn’t the lead lemmy developer, although I’m sure he doesn’t have the time for such a big undertaking.
Its where I moved to :)
too soon!
Definitely
You’re not crying, I’m crying!
Why? What is going on?
lemm.ee is shutting down, due to admin burnout.
Isn’t the whole point of lemmy is you don’t “have” to monitor it with admins?
No, the point of Lemmy is to be decentralized and non-corporate. It has nothing to do with monitoring or moderating.
You just made me realise a non-zero amount of people have this view and post/behave however they want - leading to instance closures and defederations
Probably people getting down voted like crazy for asking simple questions isn’t really good for retention or growth. Late stage reddit behavior. Guess lemmy is going to speed run all of the downside of reddit.
It’s wise to not give a fuck about downvotes. They can’t hurt you. You can’t make it right for everyone. And that’s okay. Sometimes you say stuff that agrees with a couple of people. Sometimes you don’t. Questions included, as some might see those as a statement. You’re free to do the same. Isn’t democracy beautiful?
No, the point is that it’s not controlled by any one megacorp or nation state. Being an open social media platform it’s still going to have shitty people trying to attack its infrastructure to try to silence others or tilt voting the way they want or just chaotically troll the hell out of people. Admins are needed to protect it from that.
I do see why you’re saying that, but a server without admins would rapidly become a breeding ground for entirely illegal discussions, and it would be at least defederated pretty rapidly
oh yea thats why alot of them dissociated with the tankies, and some illegal porn ones, especially csam.
Yeah but like who’s gonna get mad if there’s no corporate to report to. There’s no ad space to sell. So you are spending energy moderation to what end?
I’m just trying to understand the setup I guess. I just assumed people started lemmy to get away from over moderation on reddit. I been here since the api crackdown on reddit.
Legal authorities operating in the host country will not be thrilled if you have an instance filled with csam, and all sane users will also want to be heavily distanced from it. The latter applies to any content widely deemed objectionable, not just to illegal material - which makes the motive for moderation pretty reasonable IMO. If the moderation for a instance doesn’t suit the users, users and communities are free to move to an instance that better suits them, and this does happen. It’s a strength of the fediverse.
moderating is for mods. admins are there to keep lemmy.ee running. much like reddit still needs admins to run things, minus thier ability to ban accounts arbitrarily.
No? What?
i think the point is that there is no single lemmy server - so if you want to put in the work and set up a server you never check up on, yeah sure whatever this isn’t legal advice.
But also, if people wanna set up a space that bans the most obnoxious behavior while cultivating real conversation, they can do that too.
most of the admins left due to stress, or lack of hiring. thats why its shutting down.
NOoooooooo :(
lemm.ee has been hands down my favourite instance, it’s genuinely depressing that it’s going.
