- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
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Oh thank God. I’ve been having too much fun with generative technology and feeling way too safe. I need someone like Google to remind me that you have to pay for freedom. For a moment there, I almost had a happy thought! Terrifying…
Some of my friends just switched to DDG just because Google isn’t reliable anymore since the results became only ads
DDG isn’t all that great anymore either because they get their results from Bing - which has also gone to shit. Any alternative search providers that gets their results from Google or Bing (which is most of them) are all nearly worthless now, IMHO. The ones that operate their own engines and crawlers, such as Kagi, are the ones that give results like we used to get before enshittification.
But then again, with the death of web forums and everything being consolidated into a small handful of sites, site:reddit.com is required for almost every search query I do these days. If I want to read something written by an actual human being then I need to look up via Reddit or else results are just 98% AI-generated SEO garbage. Like I wish I was making that up but the majority of search results now are actual throwaway trash; pages upon pages of completely nonsensical generated rubbish.
what a surprise, yet another search engine related post where there’s someone making promotion for Kagi in the comments.
If you want some good search results give me $5 and I can get you good search results. They are way better than Google. Just give me $5 I swear I’m good for it.
haha, its really a great service. I always feel semi-obligated to mention it because I, selfishly, don’t want them to go away. The more people use it the less likely that will happen. I dont want to have to go back to google.
Its a US based company so its almost certain that your data gets sold as privacy is just a suggestion in the US.
DDG uses more than just Bing, and they filter out many results from Bing.
Bing is their primary source of results for the traditional search entries, but if they’re able to determine the category of your search, they directly leverage specialized search engines instead.
I’ve been using a combo of
- https://git.lolcat.ca/lolcat/4get
- https://github.com/searx/searx and
- https://github.com/searxng/searxng
myself lately, and they can all use DDG. Being able to get specialized searches sent to the appropriate engine automatically or being able to choose the engine(s) manually is really nice. But they don’t have their own web crawler.
I’m starting to look into Yacy - which is supported by Searx - as a means to add a p2p web crawler and index under my control to the mix.
DuckDuckGo and Kagi are both hybrid search engines, they both have their own crawlers and combine their results with results from other sources.
Friends don’t let friends use a web browser without uBlock origin
Ublock Origin does nothing to stop Google’s sponsored results, or SEO optimised articles which are barely disguised ads :(
If you’re seeing sponsored results in Google and you’re running uBlock Origin in Firefox then there’s something wrong. You might have an adware extension installed or some other issue on your machine, you might have disabled the filters that block those results in uBlock or might have a conflicting extension, or you might just need to update your filter lists.
Of course that doesn’t help the actually quality of results. You can use Let’s Block It! - Search Engine Results to build a filter that can be added to uBlock Origin. This lets you customize the list for your search engine(s) of choice, and it has checkboxes to automatically block a lot of sites that just mirror content.
However, uBlacklist might be a better option, and Awesome uBlacklist includes a link to a list dedicated to blocking content farm links (
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wdmpa/content-farm-list/main/uBlacklist.txtis the list itself that you would add as a uBlacklist subscription).
One of em installed it just because he saw me use it
Boycott Google
I’m over the era of ads dominating our lives. I know not everyone can do so, but I’m willing to pay a fair rate for a fair search and AI service. If we have to continue to live in this system then I think we should better enable competition in the tech space and stop some of these mafia business monopoly tactics.
Some companies are just disgustingly greedy. I pay for a new TV, for example, and that thing is trying to download ads and report my usage non-stop and I paid fairly to own the device. I’d support any political party that actually wants to protect consumers from the nonsense business pull.
If you’d be happy paying for ad-free search and AI experience, consider Kagi.
yet another Kagi shiller.
they are still pulling results from Bing. they are partially powered by their own engine, but it has a minor database of sites when compared to Bing.
And needing to have an account is just horrible for privacy.
No it’s not horrible for privacy it’s literally just for billing which payment can be made anonymously too. They don’t even verify the email address you use. So much misinformation in this thread. Go Google your info before you present it as fact.
it is a fact. you have to be logged in to do a search or use an API key which directly associates your search query with your account.
Let’s say you don’t give them a real email, that’s good. Maybe you’re using Tor or a VPN and they don’t get your IP. And somehow you manage to make your payment anonymously. That’s great.
Well, Kagi is still getting all your search queries which are directly associated with one account. We don’t have their server’s code. We don’t know how or what are they logging. They can claim whatever in their privacy policy, I don’t care. A single entity is receiving all your search queries directly linked to your pseudonymous account. This gives them a vast amount of data about the person using it, even if they do not know who you are, probably very sensitive information too.
Let’s make a huge assumption and assume they are not correlating your search queries and they do not use this information for anything. Well, a third party actor with access to their servers could very well make use of this vast amount of personal data, whether it is a government, their hosting provider, a malicious actor, a security breach, etc.
And that’s considering the best case in which you were covering your tracks hiding your IP all the time and making anonymous payments, which, being honests, most Kagi users don’t do. So yeah, Kagi is a privacy nightmare.
To say it’s a privacy nightmare in the context of a Google thread is just not accurate. If they associated search queries with your account then they’d be breaking their own privacy policy and opening themselves up to lawsuits.
I feel like this is a fair, even if incredibly skeptical, take on kagi. I am a kagi user and I had that exact thought when I started using it. How can you even function as a search engine if you dont capture searches at least in aggregate–so you can tune or shape your algorithms?
That said, I didn’t start using them strictly for privacy. I started using them because they were giving me the best results I’d gotten from any search engine in a long time. And I didn’t have to
And while I wouldn’t necessarily say Kagi is the gold-standard for privacy, their business model is, at the very least, aligned with providing good search results. Google is an advertising company masquerading as a search engine. They have some incredibly perverse incentives for how they delivery results.
wtf that was not misinformation. you need to be logged in when making searches, they can log everything you search server-side and tie it to the same person.
every time I search something in SearXNG they have no way of telling I’m the same person if my IP has changed. but this is impossible with Kagi. they need to know your account.
they have basically 0 transparency of their server side, we don’t have any code. It’s like trusting a VPN provider not to log your every connection because “trust me, bro”. this is a necessary risk for using a VPN but not for search engines and I wouldn’t recommend anyone to take such a risk when better alternatives exist.
Then they must break their own privacy policy.
a privacy policy, as I said, is a “trust me, bro”. they don’t give any actual proof.
that by searching through a SearXNG instance in a .onion domain they have no idea of who I am and they can’t associate it with any other of my searches, is a verifiable fact.
that Kagi isn’t correlating search logs, isn’t.
I’ll trust verifiable facts over blind trust any day. and you should too.
Thanks for pointing that out, I’ve been trialing their service and so far I think it works well.
Been using Kagi for about a month now and can confidently say that it’s the best search engine I’ve used in the last few years, including Google. Will for sure renew and continue to use it, highly recommend it!
Kagi has a lot of room to improve but it’s still far better thab Google / Bing.
I think Sunday prichai, and the entire executive team at google, should be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity for what they’ve done to our access to infirmstion.
The judges will be the gods. We give them a specific piece of info they need to find with one Google search. If they can get it in the first try, they move onto the next round. If not then they lose a limb. 7 rounds. If they fail four times: no more limbs. If they fail five times they lose their head.
Whether they live or die is entirely up to their own ability to use their own search engine, and that search engines ability to do what is fucking supposed to.
Of course every one of them will end up headless. But that’s the point isn’t it?
I’m willing to pay a fair rate for a fair search
Best I can do is you paying me and I still give you ads mixed in.
Does Google even give results that aren’t AI generated? I can only get results I want if I use my native language or add site:reddit.com in the end.
cringe
Are you an idiot?
Where did that come from?
Cringe. The only people that do that are idiots
I disagree with that assessment but regardless reddit make me cringe. So that is my reaction.
Whatever your thoughts on the governance of that platform, there is still an unfortunate amount of information that is only easily accessible via Reddit.
oh and I get that. but still not gonna stop me cringing whenever im exposed to it.
Even more reason to continue not using their search.
deleted by creator
Kagi (paid)
Kagi is a hybrid with their own crawler (very small) and Bing. So basically the same as Duckduckgo.
Kagi pulls data from a bunch of different sources - including Google - but as far as I know, Bing isn’t one of them. Duckduckgo like you said is 90+% Bing, without some of the tracking-related results.
But even if Kagi were pulling mostly from Bing - which is fine - the experience I’ve had is way different.
When I search Bing or DDG, the results I get are roughly the same (some more promoted crap with Bing, even with adblock; but otherwise really similar). And those results are…ok. Sometimes they’re better than Google’s default results, sometimes not. They’re usually not as good as Google’s searches in “verbatim” mode, which is more like Old Google.
But the search results I get with kagi seem to be generally as good as Google+verbatim mode, or better (sometimes much better). It’s generally the best results every time, and without ad blockers, or enabling certain modes, or whatever. And I’ve gone back and compared against other search engines a bunch just to compare and try to see if Kagi was really worth it.
Plus, the ability to easily set exclude sites, or search contexts, or a bunch of other stuff is super nice. I don’t use them every day but when I use them they can be amazing.
+1 for Kagi. Started using it and never went back.
i second duckduckgo
Duckduckgo source their search queries to bing and yahoo.
Their sources:
- Other search engines such as bing
- Websites search engines such as wikipedia search
- They have their own crawlers
As per their website, queries are largely sourced from bing
So they are a metacrawler that has additional first party crawlers? That’s actually pretty neat.
Searx, or if you need Google results but proxied use Startpage.
Depending on your appetite for self-hosting, you could try searx, searxng, 4get, and/or Yacy. I copied the below from another comment I made earlier today as it relates to those engines:
I’ve been using a combo of
- https://git.lolcat.ca/lolcat/4get
- https://github.com/searx/searx and
- https://github.com/searxng/searxng
myself lately, and they can all use DDG. Being able to get specialized searches sent to the appropriate engine automatically or being able to choose the engine(s) manually is really nice. But they don’t have their own web crawler.
I’m starting to look into Yacy - which is supported by Searx - as a means to add a p2p web crawler and index under my control to the mix.
Me too. I’m hoping Brave Search can improve and bring more competition, but right now it’s about as bad as Google, and seems to be getting worse, not better.
ChatGPT with Bing (paid version)
Dude when did bing become good? Like legitimately I find myself going to bing when Google doesn’t turn up useful results
Also, its free search side-bar AI (also called Bing) is way better and helpful than Google’s AI (Bart?) Still, ChatGPT4 is the best tool that I can have access with moderate amount of monthly payment.
Our planet has been through a lot this year, but we have not forgotten what is truly important… the great taste of Charleston Chew!
---- “Don’t waste time!! In that situation you should immediately call an emergency, but you could also enjoy a cold Coke and Hamburger from Five-Guys, for just $7,99!” ---
where is that price relevant??? 10+ for meals at crappier places by me.
Thank you duckduckgo and Firefox
Duckduckgo is bing.
How you’re able to get that turd to vomit out s useful search response is beyond me.
Of course they are, Google is an ad company.
The early adopters of LLM AI pay OpenAI $20/month with pleasure to use an adfree ChatGPT, but they represent a microscopic fraction of total internet users.
Google might be able to create a search product that looks like ChatGPT and partially answers the question with a relavent ad spot in return for that user NOT paying $20/month.
If Google has this would you use it and cancel your OpenAI subscription?
To the surprise of no one but the disgust of everyone.
Well, now I have another reason never to use your service, thanks!
Kind of a surprise that they took this long to include ads
Good the fuck on it.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
While Google has been dealing with fierce competition on all sides and is investing a lot into infusing AI into as many products as it can, its ads business, the company’s bread and butter, is still humming along.
Google’s AI-powered Search Generative Experience is still only available on an opt-in basis, so we don’t yet know how much it’ll impact the company’s ad business.
Later in the call, chief business officer Philipp Schindler added that “it’s extremely important to us that in this new experience, advertisers still have the opportunity to reach potential customers along their search journeys.”
“Across the portfolio of Other Bets companies, we have also been working to identify opportunities to create sharper focus and to operate more efficiently and effectively,” Porat said.
I’m interpreting that to hint at some future reductions of some kind in Alphabet’s Other Bets investments, but we’ll have to wait and see what the company actually decides to do.
There’s also a shadow over Google due to the Department of Justice’s huge antitrust trial against the company, which kicked off in September.
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