They know that the worst that will happen is a stern warning. “Don’t do that again, but it was justified. But don’t do it… OK, just a little bit, but still.”

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“We’re telling you not to do this thing, and we assure you all we’ll ever do about you still doing it is to tell you again not to do it whilst carrying on helping you to do it”

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The USA could end homelessness or hunger (and maybe both) nationally for the amount of money we sent to Israel each year.

Haven’t they done it twice before? Something like 2006 and 2014?

Death is kinda irreversible too

Agreed. Just needed to point this out

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I would need much, much more solid proof for this conspiracy theory before believing it.

I don’t doubt Israel had some unspecified warnings, but I just think it’s much more likely that it was a mixture of a misguided belief that Hamas was more interested in political power than large scale terrorism, an assumption that any attack would just be “regular” rocket attacks like we’ve seen in the last years, incompetence of Israeli intelligence services, and an over confidence that the fence and Iron Dome would be enough to stop any attack.

Also, Israel doesn’t need Hamas. Just look at the West Bank where Hamas isn’t in power.

Agree though that Bibi shouldn’t be in power.

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You think Hamas won’t be in power unless majority of people supports it?

Trump took power in the US even though the majority didn’t support him.

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A bunch of 20 year olds raving in the desert are not “the oppressors.”

You are just stating your opinion.

The real fascists are netanyahu and his ilk.

Without Hamas, Palestinians would have their own country lol

Hamas is literally the only reason they do not. Hamas only exists because Israel was finally close to talking Abbas into a two state solution, which he had previously always denied.

How do you not know this, at this point?

If the Israeli people are innocent of their countries crimes, they will overthrow the government.

It never, ever works that way. Seriously, name one time when a government was overthrown by its own citizens for committing atrocities against foreigners.

I too love completely irrelevant whataboutisms.

You think Trump is bad?! Do you think a kindergartener, a sentient corn cob, and a clowder of housecats would do any better?

Not comparable. Israel is an ally, and needs our funding. Russia has been an advocacy or “enemy of my enemy” type more or less for a hundred years

Because Israel already occupies Gaza and other Palestinian areas.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, where the hell are you getting your information?

I imagine your perspective also changes if the missiles were landing and killing people, innocent civilians all around you, your house, hospitals, etc. That’s what it’s like for the people in Gaza. It also looks pretty suspicious when there’s lots of immigrants in Israel and mostly Palestinians in a separate cordoned off area (kinda like an apartheid state).

Thank you for adding it. It boils down to regular people being hurt, and as an outsider I feel helpless because there doesn’t seem to be a good solution, just less bad ones.

Like there’s constantly a few kids ruining everything for the rest of us.

I wrote this long ass comment for another person but I want to put it here too. Hamas having bunkers in a densely populated area under the city is not a “war crime”. The whole thing with Hamas using human shields by setting up camp inside Gaza is BS.

What I mean to say is that when people say “human shields”, they mean when civilians are forced into crossfire to protect the enemy troops. However, there exists the notion of “proximity shielding”.

If you check the Wikipedia page for human shields:

Authors Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, elaborating on their book, Human Shields: A History of People in the Line of Fire, discuss “proximate shields”, humans as shields merely due to proximity to belligerents and assert that this type has become “by far the most prominent type of shield in contemporary discourse”. They say that the proximate shielding accusation has been used by States to cover-up war crimes against civilian populations and that human rights organizations frequently fail to question this charge which they claim is being improperly used to justify civilian deaths.[7]

There are several pieces that discuss this idea, but here are some.

In this analysis piece of proximity shielding, we read:

Our research suggests that human rights and humanitarian organizations have been complicit with this framing exercise and that it is urgent to have a frank conversation about human shields and the legal and political implications of the human shielding accusation. Both in our book and in several academic articles, we have shown that hi-tech States spend considerable resources on media campaigns and mobilize legal and military expertise to justify their use of lethal violence in cities where civilians are trapped.[ii] We describe how human shields, and particularly the charge of proximate shielding, are being widely used by States and their militaries to justify civilian deaths in asymmetric conflicts, and how it has become a major tool in what we have called the ‘erosion’ of the civilian. **

If you turn your eyes back to the wiki page I first linked under the section on Israel and Palestine:

Israel has used the charge, in what has been termed its ‘infowar’ on social media,[56] to explain the high ratio of civilian vs military casualties in its conflict with Gaza. In Operation Cast Lead 100 Gazans died for every Israeli, and the civilian ratio was 400 Gazans to 1 Israeli. Israeli spokesmen explained the difference by alleging that Hamas used civilians as shields. It has been argued that no evidence has come to light proving these claims.[57][58][59][60] In September 2004, Justice Aharon Barak presiding over the Israeli Supreme Court, issued a demand that the IDF desist from the practice of using Palestinians as human shields, and in October outlawed the procedure.[61] The independent human rights NGOs B’tselem and Amnesty International have stated that ample evidence exists in conflicts after that date that Israel has employed Palestinians as human shields. According to B’tselem, the practice goes back to 1967.[55][61]

Finally, this article discusses the politics surrounding the idea of human shields

By these means, entire populations and vast cities are reduced to war space. Prevailing hierarchies of humanity ensure that some places and some people are far more likely to find themselves expendable through the twisted logics and framings of the human shield.

I hope this makes my point clear but basically: Israel is using proximity shielding (aka accusing Hamas of using civilians as human shields) to justify ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and has itself had to outlaw the use of Palestinians as human shields because it was a normal part of Israeli military operations and totally allowed until all the human rights groups finally succeeded in outlawing it, and yet Israel still sometimes uses it.

And yet nobody has ever shown pictures or evidence that they do that. We hear about it constantly, but not one photo to back it up in a world of pocket cameras.

Hamas are a fucking blight, but I’m tired of the same god damned excuses for Israel’s bad behavior. Fuck the IDF. Fuck Hamas. Fuck the whole lot assholes who put innocents in danger.

Civilians, Israeli or Palestinian, should not be pawns. The one immutable fact is, only one side here has any real power.

operating a military HQ bunker under a hospital is a warcrime in and of itself, it also makes it a legitimate war target.

Even if this were true, by International Humanitarian Law it does not make it a legitimate war target. One side committing war crimes is never carte blanche for the opposing side to also commit war crimes.

An example, just because Russian soldiers raped little kids in Bucha does not magically allow the Ukrainians to bomb hospital or to execute non-combatants. IHL intents explicitly to avoid tit for tat. Remember that the Russians also justify bombing hospitals and civilian residential buildings by accusing Ukrainians of using them as human shields.

Israeli bombing leveled entire villages in Gaza and the West Bank on the first night after the attack, over 300 children were killed in just that night. They’ve destroyed numerous apartment blocks, hospitals, schools with airstrikes. They struck a convoy of refugees on a road specifically designated as a safe route for evacuation, killing 70 people in one strike, mostly women and children.

It’s funny how the IDF just classifies hospitals, apartments, UN camps, and schools as military targets and you don’t ask any questions. Just how many HQs does Hamas have?

Its crazy to me the amount of support HAMAS is getting by random people on the internet.

Yes, Isreal has done terrible things, but you have to compare it to what their enemies are doing and would do in their place. HAMAS attacked civilians on purpose, executed babies and elderly. Kidnaped, tortured, and raped. Desicrated bodies, dragging them behind vehicles while cheering. Went door to door executing entire villages.

If roles were reversed, HAMAS would flatten the gaza strip. They wouldn’t give two thoughts about civilians.

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