• @Bye@lemmy.world
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    241 year ago

    I thought vaping was fine because I didn’t know it had nicotine in it.

    Super fucking addictive, it should absolutely be regulated because currently in most places it isn’t, as evidenced by all the kids buying vapes.

    • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️
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      1 year ago

      it should absolutely be regulated because currently in most places it isn’t, as evidenced by all the kids buying vapes.

      They’re regulated the same as cigarettes. Kids find ways to get cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs, too, despite how regulated they are.

    • @barsoap@lemm.ee
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      41 year ago

      Super fucking addictive,

      Nicotine on its own is ballpark as addictive as caffeine, vapes lack the MAOIs contained in cigarettes which on their own are much more addictive (atypical antidepressants, hardly surprising) but in synergy with nicotine even more.

      as evidenced by all the kids buying vapes.

      They also bought fidget spinners. Also I’ve never seen a kid with a vape.

    • @thepianistfroggollum@lemmynsfw.com
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      1 year ago

      Nicotine by itself is less physically addicting than caffeine, and no more harmful. It’s the 9000 other chemicals in cigarette smoke that increase the addictive properties and cause cancer.

      A large part of the reason smoking is so addictive is because it integrates into every part of your life. This is why vaping is by far the most successful method of quitting smoking.

      Also, in the US it’s illegal to sell nicotine of any form to anyone under 21. But kids will always do the things we tell them not to do exactly because we tell them not to do them. I’d 100% prefer a kid vape than smoke.

      • @AmosBurton_ThatGuy@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        Nicotine is absolutely addictive wtf are you talking about. I smoked cigarettes for 6 years and then used a vape to quit cigarettes, it took about 3 months to wean myself off cigarettes and get used to vaping full time. My original plan was to use a vape to get off nicotine completely by gradually lowering my nicotine from 24MG to 0MG of nicotine in my vape juice but that didn’t work.

        Now here I am 8 years later, vaping my 3MG juice daily and just as additiced to the vape as I was to cigarettes. I have literally the exact same habits with my vape as I did with cigarettes, as soon as I finish eating I pull out my vape, I wake up and have coffee, I pull out my vape, I have some drinks I have a vape. Nicotine is nicotine regardless of how you get it. I’ve literally tried to quit by going to 0MG juice or going cold turkey 6 times over those 8 years and I just can’t do it. It’s to fucking hard. I’ve given up on trying to quit because life sucks and I have no good reason to quit anymore, getting lung cancer is basically my retirement plan at this point. (no clue what the actual health effects are regarding vapes, I’m just being hyperbolic)

        Don’t get me wrong, vaping is definitely a MUCH better alternative than smoking cigarettes but don’t try and downplay just how addictive nicotine is. Nobody should touch nicotine vapes unless you’re using it to quit cigarettes.

        I 100% agree that kids will get a hold of vapes or smokes regardless of whether it’s legal or not to sell it to underagers, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. Vaping is definitely preferable to smoking, but not getting addicted to nicotine is WAY better than either of those options.

        Don’t downplay how addictive nicotine is.

        • @mwguy@infosec.pub
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          31 year ago

          Former smoker here. Instead of trying to use zero nicotine juice. Take advantage of the fact that you can control how many drags you take per session. For me I hit a cig about 10 times. So when I vaped I was sure to only hit it 10 times. Then I lowered the hits from 10 to about 3 and from there I was able to cold turkey.

        • Mossy Feathers (She/They)
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          1 year ago

          I don’t think they’re intentionally downplaying how addictive nicotine is, I think you’re underestimating how addictive caffeine is. Caffeine is ridiculously addictive, it just doesn’t seem that way because its use is normalized. Try skipping caffeine for a full week and see how that goes for you. In my experience, going without caffeine is way more painful than going without nicotine. Going without nicotine makes me kinda groggy and irritable. Going without caffeine gives me headaches, makes me achey and feel mildly ill, and I don’t drink a lot of caffeine to begin with (I typically drink a single soda throughout the day, rarely coffee or energy drinks).

        • @SupraMario@lemmy.world
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          21 year ago

          . I have literally the exact same habits with my vape as I did with cigarettes

          And there you go, you’re not addicted to nicotine. You’re addicted to your habit. It’s why I can’t stop biting my nails, they don’t have any drugs in them at all, yet I’ve been doing it all my life and have tried to stop multiple times.

          Habits easy to form and super hard to break.

          • @bigschnitz@lemmy.world
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            41 year ago

            Dude that guy said very clearly his method was to lower the nicotine dose in his vape to ween down to 0mg/nicotine free vape. He isn’t trying to quit the habit, you didn’t even read his post.

            • @SupraMario@lemmy.world
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              21 year ago

              You might want to understand what a habit is. The nicotine isn’t what kept him hooked, the habit of it is.

              • @bigschnitz@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Why did you reply again without reading either post?

                The post said they are trying to vape and gradually reduce their nicotine intake to 0. I don’t know how it can be made any more clear in stating that their near term goal is not to stop vaping, but to reduce the nicotine dose in the vape to 0.

                They are trying to reduce their nicotine dosage in their vape but due to their addiction, are having withdrawals and ultimately re-adding the dose. This is 100% due to nicotine, they are not trying to reduce how many times they inhale the vape.

      • @ClockworkOtter@lemmy.world
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        111 year ago

        You’re talking out of your arse pal. Nicotine is the addictive substance in cigarettes and vape fluid. Furthermore, it is still toxic, but vaping is simply less harmful than smoking - not harmless.

      • Rikudou_SageA
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        51 year ago

        From my own experience of quitting smoking, I can tell that you’re spreading lies.

        I was on IQOS before I quit entirely and let me tell you, the addiction was real, I couldn’t think straight, I was extremely dizzy all the time and generally unusable for pretty much anything.

        I had to take some meds to actually help me with the physical withdrawal symptoms, otherwise I would be of no use for 3-5 days (or so I’ve read) which I couldn’t really afford at that time.

        • @SupraMario@lemmy.world
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          21 year ago

          You where trying to break a physical habit. Nicotine is not a super addictive drug. It’s why pipe and cigar smokers aren’t addicted to smoking. Most of us quit in the winter months with no issues because we’ve not created a habit of smoking 5 cigars a day. It’s the same reason vaping has such a good track record of getting people to stop smoking and then quitting vaping, were the drugs the pharma companies sell that are NRT like patches and pills have like a %10 success rate and people relapse to the sticks constantly, even though they’re getting the same or more amount of nicotine from the patch or drug than from cigs.

          • Rikudou_SageA
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            21 year ago

            I broke my addiction to nicotine, which is indeed very addictive. Not sure what your half-truths really are good for.

          • @xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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            11 year ago

            I am having real difficulties deciphering your comment… the reason pipe and cigar smokers have an easier time quitting is due to lower intake of nicotine because it’s generally a more casual habit. Vapers tend to vape as often or more often than smokers smoke… and vaping is, itself, highly addictive. Your comment is full of quite a few logical statements tied together with giant unsubstantiated leaps of faith.

            • @SupraMario@lemmy.world
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              21 year ago

              If you think cigars have lower amounts of nicotine in them vs cigs…I got bad news for you. Most cig smokers get sick from cigars. Snus and nasal snuff also carry a lot of nicotine in them, but easy to stop as well.

              • @xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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                11 year ago

                I don’t think that pipe tobacco or cigars are inherently more healthy… but most consumers smoke significantly less frequently than cigarettes. I agree that smoking twelve cigars a day is definitely worse than twelve cigarettes… I’m not familiar enough to know anything more precise than that though.

        • @barsoap@lemm.ee
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          21 year ago

          IQOS is not a vape it’s a “heat not burn” product. Completely different category of product and very much not only nicotine when it comes to neurologically active substances, but the whole cigarette spectrum of stuff.

            • @barsoap@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Quoth their own site:

              Our heated tobacco devices are electronic devices that heat real tobacco.

              Sometimes these are also called “e-cigarettes”. But they’re definitely not vapes, which are devices which vaporise a mixture of (generally speaking) propylene glycol, glycerine, water, nicotine, and aroma, no plant matter, no tobacco, involved. You can even get nicotine that’s not derived from tobacco if you care (IIRC they use tomatoes but any nightshade has nicotine, you only need to extract and refine it).

              Truly, I cannot fathom the mind of someone who sticks a literal stick of literal tobacco held together by literal paper, just like a literal cigarette, into their device and thinks that that’s the same as squirting liquid into a tank.

          • @barsoap@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Just for a record: Dizziness is not a nicotine overdose. At low doses it excites, then it calms, then it makes you dizzy, and several parsecs beyond that you lose consciousness, and even more parsecs beyond that you die, which would be an actual overdose.

            It’s actually quite hard to do. Trying it orally will make you puke as nicotine is a powerful emetic, via the skin you have to literally bathe in high concentrations. Intravenous would be easy but lots of things are fucking dangerous when you put them in a syringe with pointy end. Pretty much the only realistic variant is having high-purity nicotine (which isn’t available on the open market), taking enough of a whiff to directly lose consciousness, and then lie in the fumes for a while.

            It’s actually much easier to overdose on caffeine.

            …that might’ve taken a dark turn. In any case if you continue when you’re dizzy, when your mind isn’t actually enjoying the act, you aren’t serving your nicotine addiction but your habits. And withdrawal from habits can feel physical, that’s for sure.

  • @wheeldawg@sh.itjust.works
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    171 year ago

    If I could just push a button and make all non medical use tobacco become impossible to grow, I would push that button a million times just to be sure. I hope everyone working for Philip Morris gets lung cancer.

    That should just be an accepted cost to enter the industry.

      • @some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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        101 year ago

        Frankly, we need fewer prohibitions on substances, not more. I drink responsibly and like it. We also know you can’t ban alcohol without a black market, so why even feign that it could be done?

        We need better enforcement to prevent people acting like idiots when they drink. I don’t have ideas to offer on how, as I haven’t pondered it at length, but that’s the best path in my mind.

        • @TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Thank you for having some common sense. If we know anything about history, prohibitions on substances just lead to worse outcomes with black market activity and criminal enterprises.

          Tobacco is a weird one, because most people I know that smoke, don’t really enjoy it, they are just literally addicted. Still, I don’t think banning nicotine would be a great move.

          I think the taxes are pretty effective. I smoked for a few years in my younger days, and I quit when the prices started to go way up, thanks to taxes.

          • @Anamnesis@lemmy.world
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            31 year ago

            I don’t smoke but I love nicotine. Hope they don’t go too wild trying to regulate smokeless alternatives out of existence. Nicotine is a fun drug.

            • SuperJetShoes
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              21 year ago

              I agree with this. I used nicotine lozenges to wean myself off cigarettes and this was successful.

              However, I did notice as a side effect that they helped me concentrate on complex tasks.

              So, although I don’t use them daily, I leave a pack lying around just to suck on in the same way I might use a cup of coffee to sharpen up in the morning.

              I genuinely believe this does me no harm. I think the debates started to get heated when inhalation is involved.

      • @JewGoblin@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        true, but most if not all tobacco users get addicted and smoke every day, killing our young people.

        alcohol, while dangerous is not as habit forming, but I see where you’re coming from

      • @michaelmrose@lemmy.world
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        -21 year ago

        It’s entirely possible to enjoy alcohol responsibly and the vast majority of people do. Shall we can cars because some people can’t stop getting in them while inebriated and crashing them?

        99.999% of smokers are doing substantial damage to themselves and others.

  • BeautifulMind ♾️
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    161 year ago

    Fuuuuck Philip Morris. Tax them heavily and use the proceeds to pay their customers’ medical expenses

  • V H
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    71 year ago

    I interviewed with them once, and they swore up and down that they were cleaning up and divesting of all the harmful stuff, and wanted me to trust they were all about health and a smoke-free future.

    Thankfully they were so staggeringly full of bullshit during the interviews that I quickly realized it’d be an absolutely horrifically toxic (groan, yes, sorry) place to work irrespective of my other doubts, and I ended up telling them I didn’t want to continue the process and that I was so unhappy with the assorted bullshit during the process that I didn’t want to ever be approached by them again.

    That’s the very long way of saying I’m not the slightest bit surprised it turns out they are in fact still massive asshats, and I’m very happy I caught on early enough.

  • AutoTL;DRB
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    61 year ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    In a message sent by the PMI’s senior vice-president of external affairs last month and seen by the Guardian, staff were told to find “any connection, any lead, whether political or technical” before a meeting of delegates from 182 countries.

    The email sent on 22 September by Grégoire Verdeaux, the senior vice-president of external affairs at PMI, said: “The agenda and meeting documents have been made public for the main part.

    Unfortunately they reconfirmed every concern we had that this conference may remain as the biggest missed opportunity ever in tobacco control’s history … WHO’s agenda is nothing short of a systematic, methodical, prohibitionist attack on smoke-free products.”

    Without “reasonable, constructive outcomes” , Verdeaux wrote, the “WHO will have irreversibly compromised the historic opportunity for public health presented by the recognition that smoke-free products, appropriately regulated, can accelerate the decline of smoking rates faster than tobacco control combined”.

    Tobacco companies are not invited to the event and Verdeaux said despite this he would be in Panama “to publicly denounce the absurdity of being excluded from it while PMI today” was “undoubtedly the most helpful private partner WHO could have in the fight against smoking”.

    Asked about the leaked email, Verdeaux said in a statement: “What I say publicly and what I say to our employees is exactly the same: I am proud to make the case to governments and media that innovation drives down smoking rates faster and for that reason should be supported and regulated.


    The original article contains 880 words, the summary contains 246 words. Saved 72%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • @michaelmrose@lemmy.world
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    21 year ago

    Given the damage they have done to society is there a good reason the fines aren’t all your companies money and all of your executives money we seize and destroy and products farms and machinery that can’t be sold for non-tobacco use?

  • HidingCat
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    21 year ago

    Forgot how Pro-drug the fediverse is as well; vapes should be regulated as heavily as cigarettes and other tobacco products. Just because it’s less harmful doesn’t mean it’s not harmful.

  • qyron
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    01 year ago

    Now can someone give a probability for the success of that?

    It’s an international organism, with scientific input from almost every nation of the world.

      • qyron
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        -161 year ago

        Wikipedia is your friend for a quick overlook. Next stop would be their own site.

        • @qfjp@lemmy.one
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          171 year ago

          I think he was taking the piss out of your use of “organism” instead of “organization”.

              • qyron
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                -181 year ago

                Really, it’s fine. Of by small means it contributed towards the persons happiness, great. Doesn’t diminishes me in any way.

  • @assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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    -21 year ago

    Vaping seems to be healthier than cigarette smoking from what I’ve read, and it makes sense. Burnt particulate matter is hell on your lungs.

    But it should be used for smokers to break addiction. And recreational use needs to be heavily regulated until we can do long term studies that show it’s relatively safe.

    I’ll explain as someone with professional chemistry experience. Vaping vaporizes water to deliver the nicotine – or just to deliver flavored vapor without the nicotine. This process gives me two major concerns:

    1. It isn’t pure water vapor, there’s additives and oils even for juices with no nicotine. We don’t know what breathing in the vaporized flavor additives does. And, we don’t know if the process is generating enough heat to cause chemical reactions and degradation of the non water components. It’s completely possible that carcinogenic or toxic compounds could come from this. This warrants a lot more study, and fortunately, it should be quite doable. Spectroscopy could tell us a lot.

    2. Remember how Flint had a lot of lead in their water? Heavy metals in water come from surface atoms on the metal leaching into the water. You can treat the water to either discourage this or cause it to precipitate out. Heat increases the frequency of leaching – so vaporizing water with the coils is going to lead to heavy metal particles in the vapor. This is where we really don’t have information. We can likely determine the quantity and type of metal atoms, but we can’t determine what it’s going to do to the lungs. A big safety concern with tiny particles is breathing them in, because nanoparticles and the like will also ravage your lungs when inhaled. Doesn’t even matter what the solid particle is.

    The latter concern is where we need long term research. We need to know if the heavy metal particles in the vapor are causing damage in the same way that nanoparticles do. And we need to know what prolonged exposure to those metal particles does. After 40 years of vaping, would enough metal have deposited in airways to cause health issues? It’s very possible.

    Is that to say stop right this second? No, but just be aware of the risks and don’t go overboard. Heavy drinking is probably still worse for you than this, and smoking is definitely worse.

  • @thepianistfroggollum@lemmynsfw.com
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    1 year ago

    There seem to be a few people who have unfortunately believed the anti-vaping propaganda.

    If you think that vapes are more harmful than smoking in any way, this is for you. I’ve been following the actual science on this for almost 15 years and have peer reviewed the studies.

    Every single study in the US that produced negative results either had methodologies designed to only produce negative results, or the negative results were orders of magnitude lower than OSHA levels, or even lower than atmospheric levels.

    The only things the anti-vaping campaigns can rely on is bad science and purposefully misrepresenting study results. Well, that and the “think of the children” bullshit.

    There’s also a belief that nicotine is highly addictive and very harmful. This is incorrect. Nicotine on its own is actually less physically addictive than caffeine (shorter withdrawal period), and actually has heath benefits.

    Now, to the “think of the children” bullshit. For one, children can’t legally purchase nicotine in most countries. If you want to say the flavors attract children, then we need to ban any sort of flavored alcohol. Also, children can buy as many energy drinks as they want, which are actually harmful to them.

    The real reason that vaping is being demonized is because the state governments are losing tobacco tax revenue faster than they planned, and they’ve already budgeted the money they expected to get. But, instead of imposing a reasonable tax to fill the gap, they tried to make a 30ml bottle of eliquid (normally ~$10-20) cost upwards of $100.

    Don’t bother asking for sources, because I won’t Google for you. I am educated on the topic, and this isn’t a formal debate.

    I will answer any questions you may have, though.

    • @xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Don’t strawman the argument to “vapes are worse than smoking” - vaping is actually dramatically less harmful than smoking. If you have a nicotine addiction it’s quite beneficial to switch to vaping.

      BUT both of them are quite harmful to you and vapes were popularized with candy-like flavors that attracted young adults in droves… and continuously use deceptive marketing to play down health effects. Tobacco is a product you shouldn’t use every day in any form, full stop.

      • @buzziebee@lemmy.world
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        111 year ago

        Yeah we need to find a way to get current smokers onto vapes if they can’t quit, but prevent any new people from gaining nicotine addictions.

        In terms of harm reduction they are wonderful! But they are more harmful than not inhaling any smoke or vapour.

      • @thepianistfroggollum@lemmynsfw.com
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        -11 year ago

        That’s disingenuous. Vaping is 95% less harmful than smoking. To say that the level of harm is anywhere close is a straight up lie.

        It’s also not a tobacco product. You wouldn’t call green tea a coffee product because coffee has caffeine in it. There are absolutely companies extracting nicotine from other sources or synthesizing it.

        • @assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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          71 year ago

          So vaping is +5% worse for your health than if you didn’t do it. If this were a food additive, people would rightfully be losing their minds.

      • Spzi
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        141 year ago

        Waste is a whole other argument than health. Different types of vapes perform very differently.

        My refillable definitely produces less waste than regular smoking.

        Single use vapes should be banned or much less accessible than refillables.

        • bean
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          -71 year ago

          Pass blame? Got it. Very progressive. Not holding corporations responsible for their pollution and greed. Cool cool. Capitalism amiright 🥴

          • @PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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            101 year ago

            Vape juice was always a small business thing until the FDA started fucking with small shops. Now, instead of having someone local mix it, I have to buy mass produced juice off the shelf and my locally owned vape shop has one or two less employees in the store. Or people buy disposables to get the flavor they want.

            Fucking small, local business in favor of big corps… how progressive.

      • bitwolf
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        41 year ago

        So ban the cartridge vapes that became popular after the Juul. Prior to those people reused their gear for several years.

    • Flying SquidM
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      -31 year ago

      There’s also a belief that nicotine is highly addictive and very harmful. This is incorrect. Nicotine on its own is actually less physically addictive than caffeine (shorter withdrawal period), and actually has heath benefits.

      Bullshit. Quitting caffeine (multiple caffeinated drinks a day) was far, far easier than quitting cigarettes (a pack and a half a day).

      • @thepianistfroggollum@lemmynsfw.com
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        41 year ago

        Re-read the paragraph you just quoted. I clearly specified that the statement was about nicotine only, not cigarettes.

        Cigarette smoke contains over 9000 chemicals besides nicotine, some of which are added specifically to increase the addictive properties.

        I also said physically addictive, not mentally addictive.

      • bitwolf
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        21 year ago

        That’s because cigarettes are also laced with MAOI’s.

        The MAOIs increase the dopamine response from Nicotine when it is heavily desired.

  • Granixo
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    1 year ago

    Vapes are even worse than cigarettes, for real.

    • @themachine@lemmy.world
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      311 year ago

      Care to cite your sources in that claim? I’m know they are far from anything that could be considered “good” but “worse than cigs” is news to me.

      • @Stovetop@lemmy.world
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        81 year ago

        I am not the previous poster, but the argument that I’ve heard on that front is that smoking was already trending rapidly downwards in use and would have made itself obsolete within a couple generations.

        Vaping on the other hand established itself as a “safer” alternative to smoking and became trendy with more younger people who wouldn’t have smoked in the first place.

        • @WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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          291 year ago

          Yeah, that’s in no way worse than inhaling smoke and dozens of proven carcinogens…

          Vaping is worse than nothing, but the notion that it’s worse than smoking is completely deranged.

            • @Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world
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              121 year ago

              They are not to be believed. I’m shocked you fell for a Truth campaign, if that’s what you’re insinuating.

              No one claims vaping is good for you, but there is very little evidence of the damage they may cause up until this point, and basically anything is better than smoking a cigarette.

              There are a lot of issues we could discuss, such as how addictive they are, or how they’re often owned by big tobacco rebranding themselves in deceitful ways, but the grandiose claims are overwhelmingly fabricated.

                • @Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world
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                  61 year ago

                  See the long reply to your comment. I’ve seen you around whenever I log on, and you’re often loud and wrong. I’ve discovered it’s a safe bet to go against most of what you say.

                • bitwolf
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                  41 year ago

                  Whether metals are transferred from the coil to the aerosol is unknown.

                  In this study, they heated the coil to a very high temp that is not indicative of actual e cig usages.

                  Additionally, we use different metals for coils now. Instead deferring to stainless steel or ceramic heating elements which are not affected in the same way as this study indicates.

                • @xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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                  01 year ago

                  It’s still not as bad as smoking but it is dangerous, especially with off brand or damaged vapes. If you don’t regularly clean and inspect your vape you can end up getting terrible infections or some fairly toxic chemicals.

                  Vaping has also caused a spike in STDs which is fun.

        • @thepianistfroggollum@lemmynsfw.com
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          11 year ago

          Vaping is a safer alternative. 95% safer.

          Nicotine is about as dangerous and addictive as caffeine (actually a bit less so, but that’s splitting hairs). You should really be more concerned about kids being able to buy energy drinks than vapes.

          Source: Me. I’ve been following the research on this for nearly 15 years.

          • @xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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            31 year ago

            Nicotine is more addictive than caffeine in the quantities you regularly consume it and vaping has more serious side effects than drinking a cup of coffee. You’re completely correct about vaping being safer than smoking though - for life long smokers the vape can be quite impactful on their long term health… but it’s still much healthier to do neither.

    • @xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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      211 year ago

      This is incorrect and an easy to debunk claim… the tar in cigarettes is extremely harmful and vaping removes that element. However, vaping is still bad for you and it is still just as addictive.

      • Spzi
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        91 year ago

        I found it much easier to quit vaping, compared to cigarettes. There are nicotine free liquids, so you can slowly wean off.

        • @WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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          91 year ago

          This is my experience, having quit my 10 year cigarette addiction via vaping (after dozens of failed attempts to quit), then accidentally re-addicting myself 5 years later (via vaping) — then quitting again after another year.

          Vaping is arguably more addictive due to the nicotine salts, taste, and ease of use, but it’s also far easier to quit — plus my health improved dramatically when I switched to vaping.

          When I first quit with vaping, I just gradually reduced the nicotine level down to zero, then continued vaping no-nic for months until I stopped completely; the key part is sticking to the no-nic no matter what (at parties or whenever drinking). Decoupling the habit from the addiction means you don’t have to stop both at once. The second time around it only took a single attempt, except I went straight to no-nic.

          • Spzi
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            11 year ago

            Yes, I think decoupling is worth a lot!

            Also true what you say about more addictive due to reasons.

            Overall very informative comment, thanks!

            Do you keep your vape device stored somewhere over the years in case of a relapse? Or do you get a new one when needed? I see arguments for both sides.

        • arefx
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          51 year ago

          That’s what I didm smoked cigs for 10 years tried quitting many times I bought a vape with blue raz juice all the way for the top to 0nic and every two weeks I would lower my nicotine levels after a few months I was on 0 and tossed it. Nicotine free for 6 years. Thank you vaping for helping me quit nicotine

          • Spzi
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            31 year ago

            Well done! Stay strong 🤜🤛

    • Cethin
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      81 year ago

      It’s different from cigarettes. You don’t get all the tar and stuff, but many people get even more nicotine, which is bad for your heart and addictive. I would say it’s likely better, but it’s different.

      (There’s also non-nicotine vape products which often aren’t regulated so can cause all kinds of issues.)