I’m going to vote, and vote for Biden, but realistically, the democrats have already fumbled this big time.
The debate: honest to fuck, Trump looked composed and almost presidential next to Joe in that debate. I facepalmed in the first thirty seconds and never stopped. Jesus Christ, that was a massacre, and I don’t know how anyone can pretend otherwise.
Biden himself: The debate kind of unsealed the can of questions about Joe’s well being, and you’re just not getting the snakes back in. Every time he goes to prove he’s still Joe from 2020 or 2012, we get Joe from 2024, or even a flash of Joe from the debates. His audio is always fucked because he’s speaking so soft that they have to turn the gain all the way up to pick him up, which means they also grab all kinds of artifact. He walks like an old man refusing to use the walker that his doctor is begging him to use. He keeps having pretty serious gaffes that kind of go beyond what we’ve come to expect from Joe. This just isn’t going away, especially because every attempt to clean it up makes it worse. So, they’re going to rely on the HRC 16 strategy of just yelling “Just shut the fuck up and vote, or we’re going to get Hitler!”
Only: Now they’re afraid to use the one trick this donkey seems to know anymore. The democrats got lazy, being able to use the threat of fascism as a fundraising and outreach tool. The problem is that we’re talking about armed Americans here, and you convince the right ones that the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and, well… [Gestures]. So, now, the democrats have spent eight years telling us how Trump is Hitler (and make no mistake about it, he is a fascist) and building their platform around being the not fascists, and now that whole rug has gotten yanked out from under them because if they keep using that rhetoric, it’s going to get someone killed. So, which is it? Trump is a serious threat of fascism and must be stopped to save the Republic, or it’s not actually that bad and it’s okay as long as Joe feels he tried his best?
Oh, and the assassination attempt gave Trump a couple of big Ws. First, that fucking picture. Show me a picture of Joe that’s that cool that isn’t just a meme; you can’t. Second, instead of hustling away immediately, shit ass decided to have a moment of showmanship and pump his fist and yell “fight!” I hate that Donald is a good showman, but he is, and denying it won’t change it.
So let’s review, shall we?
Joe has: a really very just okay first time if you forgive the little genocide detail. And probably Parkinson’s or sundowner’s or something. He also has no real strategy left now that pointing out that the fascists are fascist leads to an unacceptable risk of political violence.
Trump has: a terrible awful first term that was a whole COVID ago, a badass picture, a badass moment, the ability to mostly kinda sorta speak in full sentences at a good volume, not bad reaction time tbh, and a bunch of newly sympathetic news coverage, donors, and people ready to join up with the fascists supporting him.
You might read all this and say “fuckin Trump supporter”, and, I mean, good for you, I guess. I’m going to vote for Biden or whoever isn’t Trump on November, but I’m also trying to be realistic about the situation we’re in. The democrat establishment have bunglefucked the situation bad, and I have grave concerns about their ability to get their shit in gear by November. May they prove me wrong, I am not excited about Christian fascism.
I hate how people vote based on who has a cooler picture rather than their agenda.
I fucking hate politics.
People didn’t vote for Biden because they supported his agenda. He was the fifth least-popular candidate in 2020, barely ahead of “Mike” Bloomberg.
The DNC promised favors to the other candidates in exchange for dropping out and endorsing Biden, because in their minds it was better to have a brain-dead candidate than risk nominating a socialist.
And now fascism’s here.
Ok I get all that, like yeah we made all the wrong decisions as far as stopping fascism but have you considered wall street?
Why does no one care about the poor poor ultra wealthy wall street people!? Yeah sure we’re about to see what happens when the world’s largest military is run by Hitler #2, but at least Democrats protected wall street interests!
Wall Street= the economy… Duh
People can’t afford groceries? Nonsense, have you seen the stock market?
I actually hoped Bernie would run last time Trumpler won again Hillary. In my eyes, he is competent, intelligent, and has some good ideas. Of course, he was old, and is even older now, and maybe out of touch with the younger gens, but at least better than Biden, and has a nice following.
Also memes.
At this point the US is just a failed state, doing failed state things, because it’s a failed state. The writing’s been on the wall for decades, but even though I expected the dictatorship within my lifetime since I was a teenager, I never expected it to be so god damned stupid. I expected it to be someone cunning and competent. Not a total fucking moron.
I definitely didn’t expect the oligarchy to go the useful idiot route either, but man, when you can elect an idiot as useful as Donald Trump, I figure they feel pretty well empowered.
I definitely agree with you on that.
I’ve been thinking a lot about how the assassination attempt will effect Bidens chances at victory. I read one take that I agree with, the basic idea is that it won’t effect polling data that much. That’s with the belief that there are no real undecided voters in this election. The key issue is voter turnout per party. And the biggest effect is that this will cause Trump supporters to have high turnout rates. Biden will never do well in that enthusiasm gap, which is a major reason why it would have been best to stick to a single term, can’t undue that though.
There is a unique opportunity at DNC. Assuming Trump will do nothing to “turn down the tempture” Biden can step down as the nominee, claiming his family convinced him to, fearing an assassination attempt. That will flip the entire narrative. There should be an open primary as well. 1 debate with x number of Dems, don’t just nominate Harris, again, democrats need enthusiasm to have a high turnout. That debate will be a huge television event and it will be about the issues, Democrats will win, down ballot even, when they all say tax the rich over and over again.
That’s just me writing a script for this shit. But at this point, fuck it, replace Biden with George Clooney. He’s just as qualified as Trump was in 2016.
And the biggest effect is that this will cause Trump supporters to have high turnout rates.
Could you explain how? Flip it around: if a registered Dem took a shot at Biden would that help his turnout? I’m not so sure.
It depends on how it was handled. Trump got an excellent PR photo, and the dems have been tripping over each other in their rush to support him and civility. This is a massive win for Trump in the eyes of his voterbase. In non-Trump voter eyes, it won’t make any difference, but it doesn’t need to. This election will be won or lost not by policy, but by voter engagement, and Biden has been doing very poorly recently with that regard.
How many Trumpers will even have this at the front of whatever passes for their minds in 4 month’s time?
I’ll bet you actual money there will be shirts, shoes, hats, and bumper stickers of that moment.
I’ve already seen that shit getting blasted under any twitter posts mentioning trump by bots. The vultures are fucking quick with it, let me tell you, like less than an hour after that photo came out I started to see that shit appear on this stupid redbubble type t-shirts as a design. I bet that shit’s gonna sell like hotcakes.
I’m not sure why that would even matter. Just throw that shit on the massive pile marked “shitty Trump branded merch”.
Really fucking helpful discussion there. Just ignoring all of it and lamenting how his merch is shitty…
Yeah that will totally do something.
If you need to help your brain make some dopamine go touch grass, do some origami or masturbate or something.Cause this wasn’t helpful or even coherent as part of the conversation.
Quite a few. It’s a positive impact to his campaign.
This election cycle isn’t going to be won by bringing voters in from across the aisle, or appealing more to centrists. This election is going to be won by whichever candidate can energize voters more within swing states.
Realistically, I expect Biden to win the popular vote and lose the electoral college.
So on one hand, some Trumpers may be motivated enough to get off the couch because some idiot took a shot at him. On the other hand, Dems should be motived by things like access to abortion and staving off an attempt to institute a christofascist autocracy.
Should doesn’t matter. What is matters.
This election is going to be purely vibes-based, nobody is undecided. Whichever candidate can get the highest turnout wins.
Right now, sad to say, Trump is winning that vibes battle.
(Not the same person you were in that convo with btw) I’ve always felt that Biden was going to rely on grassroots pro choice groups to really kick up the voter engagement. That’s where the Taylor Swift factor will come in.
Dems should be motived by things like access to abortion and staving off an attempt to institute a christofascist autocracy.
That’s a nothing sandwich with a side order of nothing. As far as motivating voters. It doesn’t apply to any one person. Any Democratic candidate could be saying these things, whether Biden, Harris, any of the other Democratic candidates from 2020, or a Speak-n-spell with a blue sticker on it. The GOP has, for decades, ran on people before policies. When they didn’t, they lost.
And whether we like it or not we don’t live in a logical system where policies are all that matter. If we did we could have a direct democracy and have every citizen vote directly on each policy. Instead we have a Republic, so the person making the empty campaign promises matters. Their personality matters. Their energy and likeability matters. It’s why Obama won, and Clinton before him. But now, the Democrats either can’t see that or don’t want to, or they’re led by bad actors who want to lose.
Your mistake is using the usual logic. That flip only works to identify breaks in a logical way of thinking and serves to highlight how something might not make sense in reverse. Except instead of If A then B and if B maybe not A, we have:
If not fascist, vote Biden
vs
Trump.
He is the equation. No if-then statements, no maybes, nothing. Just the equation of Trump.
He is their god-king. If he says drink cyanide, a shocking percentage would do so. Because of the assassination attempt the timeline has shifted. It is no longer a race of one terrible choice and one middle-of-the-road choice, now especially it is about image and the charisma to represent a figure to the people who need to vote. Allow me to lay a short timeline:
Joe announces a second term. This was his chance to tell all of us that if he can’t do it he will step down, for the good of all of us. This creates trust in a leader that understands what is important.
Trump confirms he will run. GOP immediately behind him while playing smoke and mirrors.
Fast forward through mostly normal months if you put aside all the court meetings with Trump at the head.
Joe challenges Trump to a debate. ALL OF US expect Trump to get destroyed. Despite his intelligence, old age is showing and Biden fumbles the ball. Honestly not badly in any other year, he just fumbled it next to one of the biggest imbeciles in recent history and because expectations were high, the fall went further.
However, this is a chance for Joe to recover. Apologize for his performance. Go full Dark Brandon. Explode out onto the news and talk shows. Hire Wendy’s PR team and have then run his social media accounts. Admit he fucked up and then step up strongly and precisely. This is how you turn these situations around in your favor.
He continues to fumble and honestly? It isn’t truly even his fault, until he admits that he is staying in to “do his best”. Now the responsibility is 100% on his shoulders for everything, period. Before this he may have had wiggle room. Unfortunately, that is a statement of ownership. It was not popular.
Then Trump gets shot. Since it happened, best case was him not getting hit at all. Second best was the shooter finding success. Worst case scenario, well…see Trump holding a pose, blood running down the side of his face. Before this moment, Biden was unpopular, though still Biden. There remained ways to regain a foothold. Now even I, who supported him staying in, cannot find a reason for him to do so. He’s lost the image game. A single bullet shifted the scale.
To win now it’s on us to be the leaders. We all need to come out in numbers never before seen. Without our own figurehead, and there are people whose image could easily challenge and outstrip Trump’s, we can now only rely on our collective desire to stop this evil. The problem is the people who can beat him don’t want the job.
They would be heroes.
I just don’t feel they’ll step up.
I just don’t feel they’ll step up.
Nobody is going to risk fracturing the party by announcing that they’re running against the incumbent. It’s really on Biden to declare he’s out of the race first. I hope he does so.
The best thing for US Democracy, the people of the US, and no hyperbole the entire world, would be if Biden got hospitalized through natural illness. He’d be forced to step aside, the “Back Biden no matter what” crowd would have to back a new candidate, the “Please any Democrat except Biden” would get a new candidate, and no one looks weak (or at least not any weaker than they do already).
Then when he recovers, after the election, he can be a strong advisor to the new Democratic president.
I kind of agree but if Biden is incapacitated there will be a strong push to give his spot to Harris and I can see her losing to Trump.
It’s a shit situation all round and the blame should be on Biden. He should’ve served his one term and gone down in history as the guy who steadied the ship after Trump but I guess his ego and hubris prevented that.
How do we get to an open primary and how do we get that done as fairly and as quickly as possible?
Everyone’s hindsight bias is on fire it seems. Is it possible that, at the time, the decisions made more sense? I dont see how its productive to think of ways to change the past. Learn and move on.
The party is fractured. The only thing the majority agrees on is not Trump. A true and popular figurehead can shore up the doubtful. Biden has a way out now, though from my perspective only one. I am hoping beyond hope there is someone smarter than me on their team with a brilliant counterplay.
The party is fractured.
Because first past the post voting forces everyone to vote for the democrats. How you all find this democratic is beyond all reason. If two political parties are okay… why not 1?
I’m sorry did you really say you decided Biden couldn’t win because Trump got shot? Are you not going to vote for Biden over it too?
Sorta sounds like all we need to do to fix this problem is for you to vote for Biden. Would also help if you didnt make arguments against voting for him too. What’s your end goal here anyways?
I believe that on the current course with no changes that the road to victory just got a lot more difficult.
Which I said.
In my post.
That you should read out loud to yourself.
How is it more difficult. Everyone seems to be missing the connecting bits. Here, connect these two ideas:
- Trump gets shot at
- Trump gets more votes during the presidential election.
How does 1 lead to 2.
The saf thing is, Democrats are no longer allowed to call fascists fascist, or say that Trump is dangerous as that is now considered “Violent”
Bro lol this is the comment section for AOC calling out other dems for “resigning to fascism”. She literally did that.
I think we are seeing that not all Democrats have thought through their position, and are apparently figuring it out live mid conversation.
That or its troll farms trying to get Biden to lose.
Yeah but that involves the DNC offering representation in exchange for votes. They aren’t interested in doing so.
You are to kiss Joe bidens feet and smile. Or else.
I find myself agreeing with everything you just said.
The fact the political system in the US is effectively captured by two parties that act the same “purple party” on many major issues (genocide for instance) isn’t giving people much choice.
Going into this election where the choices have are Biden vs Trump when quite a lot of people would prefer ANYONE else, but the party system refusing to give them any other options (even primaries) speaks to how poorly this system is representing people
We could literally hold a lottery, pick a random registered voter, and I’m 90% sure they’d be better.
Just wait to the shit show of the the the August 19th Democratic Convention in Chicago. Pro Israeli and Pro Palestinian groups will be marching. An alphabet soup of causes will also be on the march. It will only add the confusion surrounding the Democratic’s policies, and turn people off voting.
Replacing Biden was always a good idea, and the opposition always had the argument of “Biden is unfit for the presidency yet is still being pushed by his party, therefore the Democratic party is dumb”; but now prominent Democrats have (correctly in my opinion) called for Biden to be replaced. So there’s no going back now. If they don’t, the oppisition now has an even stronger argument: “Biden is unfit for the presidency, members of his own party have called for his replacement, yet he hasn’t been replaced, therefore the Democratic party is really dumb”.
Finding a candidate that energizes voters and creates a big turnout is hard, but not impossible, the 2020 primaries have minted several candidates and raised their profile.
Funnily enough, AOC turns 35 this October, she’s too young by like a few months if i get this right?
She would be 35 by January and that’s what would count in this very hypothetical situation
Right so i didn’t know exactly when a candidate has to be 35 (at time of nomination, election day, investiture…); if it’s investiture then an AOC candidature is technically possible, though i think we’d have heard about it by now if she had that intention
Lol AOC would rather Trump be president than herself. Democrats don’t want to win, because when they do, everyone can see what massive genocidal hypocrites they are.
I’m going to read this comment to my kids instead of a bedtime story
My daughter is old enough to be figuring stuff out and she’s been asking some really difficult questions about the election.
Trump looked composed and almost presidential next to Joe in that debate.
That has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with CNN allowing the sack of shit to lie his ample ass off for 90 minutes without any kind of pushback from the “moderators”.
There were times when they cut off Biden mid-sentence to let Trump speak
This is a really good summary. The one thing that might help Biden from the assassination is that it could reduce Trump’s campaign schedule. Which is good, because Biden has no defense for the campaign abilities of Trump. There is still almost definitely going to be a point in September/October, where Trump makes more appearances and talks to the press more than Biden has in his term, but it’s probably going to be over about a month or so instead of 2-3 weeks.
Ranked Choice voting will Introduce much needed competition into the electoral process. We should all be pressing our state representatives about making plans to switch away from First-past-the-post voting.
How should we be pressing them? Money? Votes? Something else that they care about?
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Yes. Which is part of why I’m frankly pretty concerned about the possibility that there’s no real path to victory for the democrats here. That debate should have been an easy W for anyone, instead Joe got up on stage, said “heads up, chucklefuck”, and blew his own leg off on national TV.
instead Joe got up on stage, said “heads up, chucklefuck”, and blew his own leg off on national TV.
I feel like that would’ve been more impressive actually if he did that. “I’m joe biden, and this is jackass” style thing. I’ve been saying one single kickflip or backflip outta this guy could save the country or whatever.
That’s what you got from this?
Um…yes? Every “oh I’m gonna vote for the Dem” person here somehow either absolves Trump of things OR they even play it up - “he looked presidential.”
That’s just pure garbage and should be called out as such. I’m not the only person thinking there are a few people nervous but a hell of a lot on here that are just muddying the waters as trolls or paid influencers.
Especially when you look at how the media has approached it too. Somehow everything is on Biden but no one calls out obvious lies of Trump, no one talks about his 34 felony convictions, his being a rapist, his hiding and refusal of giving back classified docs which were surely shown to a hell of a lot of people who shouldn’t see them, etc.
But yeah- Biden was bad in one debate and that’s all we’re gonna focus on…
Not to mention the stark difference in actual accomplishments or failures in their admins. What a joke. And if you are serious- you’re doing everyone a disservice by focusing on performative bullshit like they want you to instead of actual competence while in the job.
I’m not talking about the media. I’m talking about this post. OP had one line that said he looked presidential (in comparison to Biden’s old man demeanor). He also laid out a ton of issues the Democrats have to overcome before November. I feel like I’m living 2016 part 2.
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Hey.
The conversation is happening whether you like it or not. Plugging your ears and screaming that everyone else talking about it is a waste of time because the other guy is obviously worse and you personally won’t vote for him… Means you just won’t see the results coming.
Great for you. Really annoying to everyone else trying to do something about it.
If you want to complain about the people trying to find a solution out great but stop pretending you are being helpful for it. These conversations will continue here and everywhere else. Hopefully you get tired of hearing yourself complain before the end cause lots of people already are.
Lol Biden didn’t just have one bad debate. This is the way he is now. He’s too old and his health is deteriorating before our eyes
To his voterbase? Yes. They already agree with Trump, now they have been energized.
I’m amazed people thought Trump looked good… I mean Biden stumbled a bit sure, but Trump basically said “Stalin came back from the grave and started eating white christian babies in front of the Washington Monument!”
The debate: honest to fuck, Trump looked composed and almost presidential next to Joe in that debate.
I swear that my wife practically wanted to divorce me for saying this right after. I wouldn’t vote for him with a gun to my head but watching that debate, the Trump on stage that night was the President I’d want other world powers to wrangle with.
Yes, but I’m more concerned with what he’ll do to us. Fuck other countries
So you would want the president of the US to make up obvious lies and name call like a child when dealing with other world powers? Just go up there and sniff his own farts at the UN meeting or whatever?
I know Biden did poorly, but that doesn’t mean we have to act like Trump did well. Any compent politician would have have made him look stupid in that debate, and the same would happen on the world stage.
With no outside context, using just the performances of the two candidates in that debate, one looked less senile than the other. That’s all they’re saying. Doesn’t make the Toupee a good choice, just the less worse one (again, based only on the performance in that debate and ignoring everything else).
Shame that there are so few competent politicians.
There’s tons of fantastic politicians, they’re just all local.
You hit the nail on the head, we are fucked.
This is written by someone completely out of touch with reality.
and now that whole rug has gotten yanked out from under them because if they keep using that rhetoric, it’s going to get someone killed.
It’s not the rhetoric that will get someone killed it’s the very real abuse of the system that goes on right under our noses. What is more convincing that Trump is the next Hitler? Joe, the guy you said is losing his composure, saying that trump is hitler or 6 supreme court justices giving the president absolute immunity from things like, “assisanating political rivals.”
It’s the latter you fool, the rhetoric is on point.
Hey, acting mean and superior is a poor crutch for a bad argument.
If you’d read my post, you’d understand that what I’m saying is that the Democrats are using the fact that they’re not the fascists as their primary outreach and fundraising platform. The problem is that there’s no soft way to deliver that message; you can’t say “hey, these guys are actual Nazis, but it’s like totally cool, don’t shoot them” without undermining your entire messaging. So, now that the democrats have decided to stop saying mean things about the fascists for fear that the fash will get the bash, the messaging has gone from “shut up and vote or we’ll get Hitler” to “shut up and vote”. Forgive me if I don’t find that to be a particularly powerful rallying cry, but I have some concerns about the ability of “just shut up and vote” to get people to the ballot box.
The problem is that there’s no soft way to deliver that message; you can’t say “hey, these guys are actual Nazis, but it’s like totally cool, don’t shoot them” without undermining your entire messagin
As if the only reason to not shoot someone is ideology.
It’s not a rallying cry it’s the reality.
Mean? superior? No, you have no legs. You are just pissing in the pot.
If you will, address my main assertion. That the Supreme Court has exposed the GOP as fasict. I know you can’t because that isn’t why you’re here with your defeatism.
Uh… Yes? I think that if you’d actually read what I’ve written, you would see that I make no secret of the fact that the GOP are fascists. That’s the point, the democrats have hitched themselves to the strategy of being the not fascists, and now they have no way forward. You can’t say “these guys are actual Nazis, that really actually want to do Nazi shit [and they do], but be cool about it.” It’s the political equivalent of “listen, there’s a nuclear strike incoming, but keep calm and carry on, maybe bring an umbrella.” Either you’re going to send the message that you have no idea what you’re talking about about, or that you don’t seriously believe in the threat; either way, it makes you sound like you’re full of shit and people will tune you out.
I think the best approaches at this point are to promote the P2025 talking points with no editorializing, just lay them bare and let people draw their own conclusions. ALSO, they need to put forward a bold, real alternative to the fash instead of just finger wagging. People are starving for the system to work for them, the GOP are exploiting that, why aren’t the democrats?
Edit: They also need to not be afraid of the conclusions people might draw from learning about what the GOP wants. If you want people to know the fascists are fascist, you have to be okay with some people deciding on sic semper tyrannis. It’s fine to disavow them, to discourage them, but you can’t flinch.
You can’t say “these guys are actual Nazis, that really actually want to do Nazi shit [and they do], but be cool about it.”
What the fuck is “be cool about it”? Voting them out of office is “be cool about it”? Fascists are the ones that believe might makes right you numbskull. As much as I want biden to flex his absolute immunity I know for a fact that would solve nothing and put us further behind. Democrats have to demonstrate they can make the system work for the people. That is the only way the people will have faith in the system.
It’s two fold, the people have to participate in the system. And you shit bags, storming in at the last hour after ever thing was said and done demanding we work outside what we had already established, are such a pain in my ass.
I don’t mind, I think it’s fine to have discourse, but please, have just as much if not more discourse around trump. Wtf. Would it help if I had mitt romney come by, grab your arm, and force it in your face and say, “stop hitting yourself”?
The nuclear strike is coming, and the government is saying, “hey, all we have are these umbrellas, if you vote me in I can delay it a bit longer.”
Again, still haven’t addressed my original assertion. The things that the GOP are doing speak louder than any rhetoric…
Dude, okay, first: I’m sure the Nazis led plenty of people to the gas chambers with their heads held high with pride about their non-violence. What stopped the Nazis was bullets. There aren’t any two ways about it, if you really, really believe that the GOP are a bunch of violent fascists, and they are, then saying “no, it’s okay, we can beat Hitler with voting / I’ll feel good if we lose as long as I tried my best” is a deranged statement. I can’t believe you had the gall to call me out of touch with reality. You can’t have it both ways, they’re either an existential threat to the Republic and a large chunk of America, or it’s okay if Joe loses as long as he tried his best.
Look, I voted in the primary, and I didn’t vote for Biden, so miss me with 100% of that shit. I want the democrats to get their ass in gear because I don’t particularly want to have to shoot Nazis. and btw, can you rephrase what the question is that you’re posing about the SCOTUS? What exactly is it that you want to hear from me?
I really belive the GOP are Christo-facists. Being a facist doesn’t mean they automatically get power. Like we arent at gas chambers yet. Obviously, wtf. You seem to think that Joe should be escalating when nothing is set as there is an entire election that will shape the course of history. You don’t live in reality.
I don’t get to go out on the street and shoot a nazi because they have a swastika on their chest. Full stop.
Agreed, well summed up. I wish more people shared your insight. Never the less, I appreciate your stance.
I don’t know what debate you watched, but trump was terrible. Honestly, they both were. But Biden at least stayed on topic and talked about policy. Trump just ranted about random shit the entire time. Biden came out better IMO.
That’s fair, everything was about immigration this, immigration that, and it was upsetting, particularly because he was practically on stage by himself. It was upsetting that Joe couldn’t ever seem to get his head on straight. Even when he did “come alive”, it just felt like “confused old man yells at Wal-Mart employee” more than it reminded me of 2020 Joe.
“senior Democrats” would rather Trump than a progressive. At least Trump is good for their stocks.
These fuckers insider trade and make money no matter which way the market goes. This isn’t it, they just know that no matter who wins the rich will continue to run the country so it doesn’t really matter to them. The only threat to the wealthy ruling class is the left (not liberals, the actual left)
True
There are several HUGE ‘left’ spaces on Lemmy.
None of them have any advice, none of them are ‘leading the charge’ of reforming the USA.
the only thing I’ve seen them bring to the table is an elevated nose, blind judgement based on delusion, and calls for more violence. Those aren’t the traits of a movement I can support
Are there Liberal spaces on Lemmy where liberals accomplish anything? That shit happens in the real world dawg.
Organize in your local community like leftists in the real world do
Lol @ dawg
So relatable.
Go be mad people different than you exist 🤷
Imagine thinking this is worth secreting out of your brain 11 days later.
It’s rough having responsibilities IRL. Can’t always be in front of a keyboard.
yes I’m glad you made the time for that great contribution
I actually did try to run for a local election and have tried to organize unions before.
Neither went very well and for the local office position I actually tried to work with a “progressive” election fund who never wanted to talk politics but just money. Literally told me I was too poor to run and that my dollars would be better spent with them finding better candidates.
It’s a sham not exactly possible to break through without a lot of luck and momentum. They have said age makes you more conservative but it seems to actually just be money and wealth and accumulation of things makes you so.
I think the reason you don’t see more is the “left” is mostly just people poor and tired. The social left liberals above us just like to use our backing while supporting an easier to work with marginalized group that looks better and is easier than solving wealth inequality flavor of the month.
It’s tiring you know?
I tried to run as well… Didn’t have any progressive groups around, but the state Dem party doesn’t help anyone except top of the ticket. They didn’t mind asking me to drop off flyers for their candidates though.
I’ve also tried to organize a union 3 times in 3 different jobs, and the problem there is just everyone not wanting to do anything extra if it’s in any way work related… Even if it’s to make their lives better… But I do get that the reason for that is mostly that they’re already overworked and underpaid, so they don’t feel like they have the time or energy.
Lemmy is pretty much just reddit
Want to start something for real?
I do real shit in real spaces.
This website is for shitposts and memes lmao. Collect yourself, coward
They (wrongly) think that they’re too powerful to be harmed.
He’s not though.
He is. They own the same stocks in the same companies.
Democrats like immigrants the same reason the Republicans do they just don’t have to pretend to hate them for their base they are replacing the labor with. And will also accept cheap slaves if they can get them.
Democrats are even some of the largest receivers of donations from weapons manufacturers they just more carefully call it “Defense Funds”.
Do not fail to see the upper party member apathy as anything other than acceptable oligarchy capitalism with anger that they will have to try harder on social pandering.
Probably better than someone like Bernie would be. Only because the rich would pull their money out and crash the economy so they could blame it on him. Personally I’d call it economic terrorism and put them all in Guantanamo
Hard to get that calculus right well into one’s 80s
Or names apparently
Divide and conquer. Tale as old as time
“This kind of leadership is functionally useless to the American people.”
It’s been that way for a long time now. Frankly, I can’t think of a single agenda the Democratic party has rallied behind in recent memory that isn’t not being a Republican. The Democratic leadership is useless, that’s just been better than the malicious alternative.
Edit: I’m getting responses referencing Biden policies or those that are advocated for by a few outspoken Dems. These are not what I’m referring to. The Democratic party as a whole has no message, no mission, no agenda seemingly other than “patch up the damage that the Republicans leave”. No wonder Democratic voters aren’t motivated, we’re not being represented we’re just voting to slow the inevitable decay.
School loan forgiveness? Universal healthcare?
We don’t have universal health care.
The school loan forgiveness was exceedingly niche, and since Biden could have forgiven all student loans unilaterally, I’m not willing to pretend it was a major achievement. The man just rearranged deck chairs on the Titanic.
Thanks for saying this. Both statements are true.
Yes. But why don’t we have universal healthcare or student loan forgiveness? Could there be another party blocking everything?
Dem: here is a comprehensive student loan forgiveness plan. Vote to help your constituents.
Reps: No.
Leftists:why are the parties the same, LIBERAL?
Biden didn’t campaign on universal healthcare. Most of the Democrats didn’t, it’s why Bernie got popular off that. Same with student loan forgiveness until Bernie started mentioning it. They just don’t care about it as much as they say they do.
But why don’t we have universal healthcare or student loan forgiveness?
If you think that’s only because of Republicans I have some terrible news for you.
I don’t think that. I do think one party has tried or has members that have tried.
I agree, the Dems have members that advocate for universal healthcare but the party in its entirely absolutely does not.
You’re right.
It’s so hard.
They should just… keep making excuses instead of working harder.
Why should they work harder? Every four years they drum up votes by saying they’re not as bad as the Other Guy, and about half the time it works. A large portion, maybe even a majority, of their voters come out of the woodwork around election time to call anyone dissatisfied with the Democratic party a Russian troll or worse, then disappear for the next four years until the next Other Guy needs to be defeated.
The system we have only has one way for the public to express their opinions of politicians: their vote. A vote for a politician, regardless if it’s just a vote against the Other Guy, is taken as approval of that politician and their party. Now we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place of our own making. Fascism on the one hand, fascism delayed by a maximum of four years on the other.
Who said they shouldn’t work harder? The point is, one party is putting effort and the other is obstructing everything.
*Pretending to put forth effort, you mean.
The president has the power to keep Congress at work for as long as he wants, provided he considers the issue critical enough. Take your pick of critical issues, be it student loan debt, or poverty, or 2/3 of the states about to take women’s bodily autonomy away, or cops becoming a legalized domestic army of oppression. etc. etc. etc.
The Democrats pretend to care and do nothing but offer empty excuses.
He can keep Congress in session for 365 days a year. If one party is hellbent on blocking literally everything, how can you get anything done?
As for the alleged pretend effort, how do you know the hearts of the people putting forth these plans and policies? At least they’re doing something. Don’t mistake my sense of political reality with complacency.
Also, the overturning of Roe is a direct consequence of people failing to elect Hillary Clinton in 2016. You can have your protest non-vote, but you have to live with the consequences (a stacked supreme Court). Remember, the pre-Trump court gave us Obergefell and Dobbs, so don’t act like Roe would be gone regardless of who won.
You’re right, they’re not perfect so they’re complete shit not worth mentioning.
they’re not perfect
Band-aid on a gunshot wound, but I’m sorry its the best we could do. It’s not perfect, but the other guy wants to hit you with another bullet.
So, anyway, here’s another $50B bank bailout. And a $100B automotive industry rescue. And $200B for the wars overseas. And $25B for Intel to build a new foundry in Israel that makes specially designed chips to help Microsoft do weird invasive AI data-scraping more efficiently.
But sorry we can’t do anything about health care or education costs. We just don’t have the money, cause we’re not perfect.
“Not perfect”
You can get that knitted on a pillow in November when the facade of fascism becomes an overt reality to which the Democrats escorted us with false promises.
Those are valiant causes, and I am a democrat. But did the party rally behind them? The GOP frequently votes unanimously to gut social spending, strengthen the military, etc, but I wish the democrats did the opposite, unanimously, and voted for every social good we should pass
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/01/senate-repeals-bidens-student-debt-relief-00099682
https://www.newsweek.com/two-democrats-vote-end-bidens-student-loan-cancellation-1803948
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/medicare-for-all/
Promised for day one, never delivered. We need meaningful action, and we need it 4 years ago.
They have delivered school loan assistance. It’s income driven, but that’s the most they could push through with Republicans blocking them every step of the way. But they’ve already issued millions in savings and are constantly trying to issue more.
Oh yeah, I remember when we got that health care. Good times. Thanks Obama?
What health care?
Obamacare only covers you if you can afford to be price gouged.
Don’t forget the tax penalty that you have to pay if you can’t afford insurance! At least until the Toupee got rid of that, and though it disgusts me to say it is the one good thing that administration did.
You can’t have truly public healthcare without public clinics and hospitals. How many public hospitals have Democrats built or bought lately?
Edit: I’ll see you all at the next thread where you’re complaining about health-related bankruptcy after you downvote me for this post. You morons deserve what you got.
Universal healthcare is not a priority for the Democratic party as a whole despite their voters’ pleas for it. Still only a few outliers in the party seem to advocate for it. Biden himself has been reluctant to embrace it.
And I don’t remember student loan forgiveness being an especially popular platform before Biden took office. Sure it’s helped a lot of people but it feels very much like a, “we’ll take what we can get” policy versus something we’ve been asking for over decades.
Most recent they passed the Inflation Reduction Act in '21, which gets me 30%* off my solar panels among a bunch of good moves for the country re: medication costs and the world re: global warming, and was voted against by every Republican.
Because of the level of polarization we have today, Republicans that vote with Dems worry about being primaried out of their seat, so the Republicans are against everything the Dems do anyway. It’s impossible not to be defined by the phrase “not that guy” when “that guy” does the opposite of what you do on purpose.
Edit: bump from 20-> 30% Thanks Dempf!
It should be 30% thru 2032.
They do realize that they would be the first to go in a fascist coup? The kind Trump’s Project 2025 openly threatens? Right?
In a full blown military coup they would but that’s not the kind of coup Project 2025 threatens. They’ll be one of the last to go. They’ll constantly ask us to donate and vote while doing absolutely nothing to stop it. Controlled opposition.
This is correct. They’ll just be voted out one by one as the polls get more and more corrupt. It will seem like democracy until the bitter end.
Even though Democracy already died 24 years ago when the supreme court gave itself the power to overturn elections.
Probably not.
May I get a source to where he openly threatened, please?
Trump says he’ll be a dictator Day 1: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PRpfNJMpHcc
https://youtu.be/eadlfYxElW8?si=pndC5habsI70h9JI
They actually cut off what he said. Watch the first 40 seconds of this video. He said ‘We’re closing the border and we’re drilling, drilling, drilling. After that, I’m not a dictator’. He was making a joke.
Right, history is full of examples of people becoming dictators temporarily and then stopping once they do the one or two things they wanted to do without being held accountable…
…No, wait, history is full of the opposite of that. When people tell you who they are, believe them.
A “joke” which also dodged the real question. God I love that lecherous, disgusting greedy and vulgar rapist, he’s so funny.
He didn’t dodge the question though.
Yes, by giving a ‘joke’ answer, he did.
“I was just joking guys!”
There’s nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.
Yeah, that’s the real problem, that he might not give up his dictatorial powers rather than wanting them at all.
I assume this is sarcastic? Ofc wanting them at all is a problem, but much of America will think that’s OK if it’s “temporary”.
This makes him a dictator in your eyes for wanting to close the border?
not the person you’re replying to, but maybe it’s less about the border and more about him saying he wants to be a dictator, repeatedly, and refusing to take it back even after his ass kissers ask him to please say he’s not serious.
Being a dictator is nearly impossible in America. Everyone calling him Hitler undermines what Hitler actually did, which is not even close to what Trump is doing. Again, It’s a joke… He literally said he wasn’t serious in the video I linked. Don’t know what you mean by ass kissers. The original video from Inside Edition cut off what he said.
No sir, that is not a logic.
Conservatives don’t deserve voting rights as non-sentient fungi.
just… read it?
It doesn’t say anything about removing sitting house members. It says a ton of bad shit, no need to add fake stuff on top.
Edit: if someone can show me where it says this, I will happily delete this comment (or maybe I’ll delete it in Terror?)
Fucking vote
Almost as if they’ve spent decades not giving a single shit about the consolidation of power and march toward fascism and instead have dedicated all their energy snuffing out anything left of “mid right” on a neutral scale.
if you sit at the table with fascists, and don’t care whether or not they get to power, you are fascist too.
Democrats have always been fascist. Just look at their rhetoric about how “only they can save the country” (even though they’ve never done shit about shit even when they had a trifecta)
The bipartisan war on drugs will not end with marijuana legalization
Thanks to the two party system, that’s true, funnily enough. You Americans are so fucked.
capitalism. the same issues arise in multiparty countries like mine. most of them arise in ranked voting systems.
When have democrats said that? That’s literally what Trump says about himself, though.
Biden is literally campaigning on that note.
Biden claimed in the past election that he thought only he could beat trump, for some reason. Not sure i’ve seen that this season, but what he would mean is only he can save the country from Trump, which is very different than what’s implied here or the ridiculous bullshit that Trump says. Trump literally says “I alone can fix it”. You’re welcome to find me a place where Biden said something like that.
I’m regretting not looking for an office to run for now, there needs to be a retire and replace move among the democrats.
We need less aisle reachers and more firebrands who’ll nail the GOP to their heinous ideals like a roman centurion handling a thief’s sentencing and pile the shame on them relentlessly, I don’t want to see this spineless shit, I wanna see someone having to debate across from Margie Infidelitress back her far enough into a corner for her to start having a crying panic attack, and then when the parliamentarian calls for decorum threaten to come up there and put the gavel up their ass sideways if they dare interrupt the much needed dressing down again before it’s finished.
I wanna see someone pay their staff bounties for graffitying the doors of election deniers for being the traitors they are.
I want to see someone begin carrying an obvious vanity cain around and brandish it at any Republican who tries to nut up like they deserve to do anything but be afraid of what’ll happen if they dare forget their shame again.
If the person who did that was a trans woman, and replace the cane with a gun because nothing else will scare an armed magat, do you think that would actually win votes?
I dunno, the image of a cane being wielded in such a way as to scare a member of the “Guns Over People” party, has immense potential.
It’s like all these D-dinosaurs forgot that they needed to plan for their succession. I would imagine them working hard to make sure the new generation of politicians is ready. But modern career politicians will die in the saddle and seemingly are not worried what happens after.
Their goal is to enrich their family and friends as much as possible for as long as possible. Pelosi, Feinstein, and McConnell are prime examples.
I actually don’t think that’s limited to democrats or even politics, it’s systemic
Family owned businesses that provide generations with income so this plenty. It’s the career politician that is the issue for me here, the ones that will die in the saddle. By not grooming successors, their base has no alternative to vote for.
As soon as I saw the picture, I felt like we were doomed. I’m still not voting for Trump, but that assassination attempt and the picture are, unfortunately, sometimes all that’s needed to sway an American voter.
Like, he’s a rapist, convicted felon, bad bsuines man, mentally unwell, fascist, and a general boob, but they’ll look at that picture of him, fist up, blood on his ear, people trying to get him to get down, and then look at old man Joe and make their decision from there. If Biden truly cared about this country, he would step down. He’s been vice president and now actual president, but his performance this round has been terrible and he needs to face the reality of that instead of pushing forward for the sake of his ego.
Edit: Just adding this since people think I’m saying all of Biden’s presidency was poor. I talking about his debate/campaign performance.
Joe Biden = maybe less energy to do MORE GOOD things (but actually a presidency isn’t a single person, it’s an administration full of good people that do important work, regardless of how Joe feels on a given day…
don trump = maybe more (adderall and coke-fueled SNIFF) energy, but only used to do MORE BAD things.
So much of this country is so surface and easily frightened.
The choice is between a narcissistic buffoon who will do whatever his handlers want him to so long as he gets to look important and powerful playing along or someone who belongs in a nursing home rather than the White House that people raged about being called a “well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory” months ago because they thought it was an unreasonable because his admin was doing such a good job at damage control.
This isnt a Mr. Universe contest. Theres more important things than physical fitness and debate skills.
Theres more important things than physical fitness and debate skills.
Sure, sure. That doesn’t change that we’ve got a choice between an easily manipulable narcissist owned by proto-fascists and Russia and a case of elder abuse who at this point is lucky if he can string three coherent sentences without a teleprompter, or sometimes even with one.
Obviously we should all vote for the case of elder abuse, but the fact that this is the choice that we have is the core problem.
And yes, I needed to make reference to people being outraged at Biden being described as a “well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory” because holy shit were people angry at that characterization and holy shit would most of them be happy if that was the worst we could say about his mental acuity now.
Its all a crap shoot to me. None of us has the predictive powers we profess. Biden is just as likely to win/lose as Kamala is, as is Bernie, and so on.
Theres different reasons for each person, but noone knows really what’s best. I’m still of the opinion that Trump has gone way too far and there will be so many people coming out to vote against him, that he’s essentially running against himself.
But thats just my theory, based on pretty much a feeling.
Biden is just as likely to win/lose as Kamala is, as is Bernie, and so on.
Thanks to ballot access deadlines in several key states, this just isn’t the case. It’s Biden or Trump unless one of them dies in the meantime. If you tried to field Kamala as a replacement against a living Biden, you’d end up with a number of electors under faithless elector laws required to vote for Biden despite him having stepped down to make way for Kamala, possibly enough to trigger a one vote per state decision.
I’m still of the opinion that Trump has gone way too far and there will be so many people coming out to vote against him, that he’s essentially running against himself.
You aren’t wrong about him essentially running against himself. It’s entirely about whether or not people who would vote against Trump actually go out and vote for Biden (or his replacement should he die) in sufficient numbers.
But it’s nearly always the GOP running against themselves, turnout is basically what decides US presidential elections. It’s just writ lager with Trump.
Everyone I know is already voting against trump, I can’t do much else than hope my faith in there being enough decent people is not misfounded.
I’m sure theres still a few more people trump could offend before the election is here though. I though his behavior during and after the assassination attempt to be awful, maybe someone else does too and they feel that much firmer in voting against him.
The country is so big though, I know my own anecdotes only go so far.
I haven’t heard about this inability to get the electors to vote for a different candidate even if hr steps down though, do you have more information on that?
It’s really not, you seem to have completely missed the point of the Biden statement above. A presidency is not one man.
I’m not a Biden stan, but it’s just ignorant to say he did nothing
At this point I need to hear directly from someone who was undecided before the assassination attempt, but now is voting trump.
Not a single person has said that, just that they are sure its happening.
Y’all need to figure out the difference between a guess and a fact for real. All emotion and no logic.
At this point I need to hear directly from someone who was undecided before the assassination attempt, but now is voting trump.
Nobody is undecided this election, what is going to determine the way the vote goes is which candidate can energize their own voters more. After the assassination attempt, Trump has seen a surge in popularity among his voters, even if nobody is swapping from Biden to Trump.
America is not a mandatory voting State. Therefore, vibes are incredibly important. The narrative around Biden is that even if he’s supporting genocide and seeing (percieved, at least) mental decline, he’s not Trump. Meanwhile, Trump voters see their messiah figure surviving an assassination attempt and rising in percieved strength.
You fundamentally misunderstand what people are saying about the situation here.
Exactly, in America the candidates are really campaigning against the couch.
100%, and any attention otherwise is a red herring.
You know what, the day before we heard about a surge in the polls, yesterday I read there was no surge, I’m beginning to think the polls are bullshit.
The day before we heard about a surge in energy among Republican voters, yesterday we heard there was no change between Biden/Trump polling.
These are entirely consistent.
They resigned themselves to a second Trump term when they decided to push forward an individual that couldn’t carry a conversation 5 years ago. This isn’t new.
Decided to push him forward by listening to the majority of voters who cast their ballots for him in the primary?
The sitting president doesn’t get a primary. It is a stupid tradition that needs to stop. Even a sitting president needs to be put up in a primary, yet neither side does that.
They talked about five years ago not about the reelection campaign
Jimmy Carter wouldn’t smack you but he’d be very disappointed you didn’t remember what your history teacher tried to instill for you.
I remember that primary. We got like, what, ten primaries in before a bunch of people, some of whom were still competitive, just dropped out and gave all their delegates to Joe. I remember being flummoxed because Joe’s performance in that debate was also really, really poor, and his performance in the primaries up until then had been pretty middling. So, I wouldn’t agree that Joe won it as much as a bunch of candidates promised their delegates to him in exchange for cabinet positions.
It was a very slick move by the DNC after they bungled Hilary’s nomination so badly.
Shit Clyburn’s daughters got on Biden’s transition team and are appointed to positions alongside governors. Clyburn even helped the GOP gerrymander SC to eliminate a competitive seat to keep his sole seat safer which helped Mick Mulvaney get into politics.
The rot of the old generation has been damaging for quite some time.
- 4 primaries.
Ask Warren how that went for her as she started talking about how she was getting the VP pick for dropping.
Boy does the party hate leftists and having to put effort in.
Let’s say I make a banquet with lots of different food on the table. Some of its good, some of its bad, one of the dishes is lukewarm, unflavored yoghurt. Now let’s say right before everyone sits down to eat, I remove all the dishes except for the lukewarm, unflavored yoghurt. Is everyone who then chooses to eat the yoghurt doing so because it’s the one they like the best? Or did they not really have any other options?
This is the primary you believe so accurately captured the wishes of the American public. Fuck off.
Oh I get it, you’re one of those morons who think the moderates realizing they uad a combined majority and then acting like that was the case is cheating because it killed the illusion Bernie was creating of “winning” on plurality votes.
This is patently false, there was no primary held in good faith. The DNC canceled it and threatened anyone who floated the idea of a bigger run.
Some promising candidates still put their necks out despite this undemocratic efforts, and Biden wouldn’t even acknowledge them. Much less debate them, and after his recent performance it’s quite evident why.
So she’ll be the US President at some point?
we can only hope
I mean, she’s clearly angling for that, no?
Most career politicians are.
If we get to continue having fair elections, maybe.
Removed by mod
Iiiinteresting wording…?
I can’t vote out the career politicians who don’t give a shit about me because the other career politicians that don’t give a shit about me are worse.
Can’t vote for a human because the wrong lizard will win and all that.
This is just an anecdote but word came down from the c suite today to start getting all our ducks in a row and make plans for huge tariff increases next year.
I work in a fairly liberal leaning industry too. The bosses see the writing on the wall for Biden. The last time this happened we upped our prices on everything regardless of country of origin. Market segmentation and pricing strategy is a thing and this will affect prices for all goods.
“Hey, there’s a realistic possibility we’re going to have to deal with Trump winning and increased tariffs. We obviously don’t know if it will happen or not, but let’s make sure we’re prepared.”
Yeah, Trump could win the election … so could Biden. That’s less of a forecast and more “competent business leadership having a disaster plan.”
Why wouldnt you all prepare for both possibilities?
I’m not saying we shouldn’t. I’m saying sentiment has changed after this weekend. Trumps reelection seems more likely than not to them. I hope they are wrong.
When we say “politicians who don’t give a shit about you”, does that include 80+ year old men who are willing to throw our democracy away as long as they do their “goodest job”? All because they are addicted to power and can’t imagine a world where someone is more electable than they are, despite overwhelming statistical evidence to the contrary?
And when we say “career politicians”, does that include people that were elected to the Senate 60 years ago when they were in their 20s?
It’s #Joever. Time to accept it and move on. Bending over backwards to defend him doesn’t make you a hero, it makes you a useful idiot.
Dont forget the 80+ year old women who have had nothing but sheer utter, seething contempt for AOC and everything she stands for
I dont get why americans just suddenly are so much against Biden. Yes he is old. We knew that for a while. He has done quite well still. Yes he didnt have much voice during the debate and wasnt in good form. He still did better than Trump because at least Biden didnt constantly lie.
Just posting cringe hashtags and giving up will lead to the fascist being in power.
I dont get why americans just suddenly are so much against Biden.
They were never “with” him in the first place, he was the only option that wasn’t Trump.
Now the election is coming around again and most folks don’t like Biden’s chances, they just weren’t allowed to say anything about it on TV until the disastrous debate performance.
Their guilty consciences may move them on occasion to vote Democratic, but deep down they long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule them like a king
