Actually my point is exactly that it isn’t just semantics. If anything, semantics is used to make pretty euphemisms about what is happening. You are ending the life of a sentient being that feels pain and has feelings/emotions, that has family of one kind or another, for no benefit other than your own pleasure. Whether the death is slow or fast, painful or not, anticipated or not, is very secondary.
A bit off topic but I hate that there are discussions on whether or not it is ethical to farm organs from donor pigs. Like, this at least saves a life (or multiple), while eating meat is absolutely unnecessary nowadays but it still happens all the time.
You are ending the life of a sentient being that feels pain and has feelings/emotions, that has family of one kind or another, for no benefit other than your own pleasure.
there are reasons to eat meat besides"pleasure". like nutrients or convenience or cost, and it’s unlikely that most meat eaters are killing anything.
In the abundance of products in the 21st century you can absolutely get all the nutrients you need in excess without touching animal products, let alone meat.
convenience
Not sure how cooking pea protein sausage is less convenient than cooking a pork sausage. There are tons of vegan/vegetarian convenience products in the fridge aisle. Even if there was indeed some very minor convenience to cooking meat (which I am really in the dark about), are you really arguing your minimally bigger convenience is a good enough reason to kill a living being?
cost
In some way I agree with you here, meat is heavily subsidized while vegetables aren’t (at least where I live) and it is a shame. Chicken wings can be cheaper per kg than some kind of vegetables. That’s a systemic problem and needs to be taken care of not by the consumer, but government regulations. But a) you know it is bad quality meat that is on the cheaper side, b) most people aren’t in a position where you have such financial pressure (food stamps etc) where you have to weigh calories per cent, c) vegan/vegetarian diets can still be cheap af as long as you don’t try to do instagrammable kale quinoa brokkoli sprouts smoothies with avocado and chia seed granola or some crap like that. Potato wedges with sour cream are a vegetarian dish. Beans with rice. Noodles and tomato sauce. It doesn’t have to get expensive or complicated.
Not sure how cooking pea protein sausage is less convenient than cooking a pork sausage.
if you’re cooking it’s probably roughly the same. but if you’re out and about, whether at a drive through or a neighborhood cookout, the meat might just be more convenient.
That’s one not on you though. There are what I think is called food deserts where there just aren’t a lot of vegetarian options around. But I think that’s changing. Even McDonald’s has a decent vegan/vegetarian menu by now.
Let’s say yes. I mean I think it would be healthier and just as convenient to just get an apple and a bun than a burger to be honest. The question is how much of a pro argument this is. It’s about as good as “wearing fur looks pretty so we should keep killing tigers for it”.
this is just a semantic game. there are human slaughter laws in most of the developed world. maybe all of it. and some in the developing world, too.
Actually my point is exactly that it isn’t just semantics. If anything, semantics is used to make pretty euphemisms about what is happening. You are ending the life of a sentient being that feels pain and has feelings/emotions, that has family of one kind or another, for no benefit other than your own pleasure. Whether the death is slow or fast, painful or not, anticipated or not, is very secondary.
A bit off topic but I hate that there are discussions on whether or not it is ethical to farm organs from donor pigs. Like, this at least saves a life (or multiple), while eating meat is absolutely unnecessary nowadays but it still happens all the time.
there are reasons to eat meat besides"pleasure". like nutrients or convenience or cost, and it’s unlikely that most meat eaters are killing anything.
In the abundance of products in the 21st century you can absolutely get all the nutrients you need in excess without touching animal products, let alone meat.
Not sure how cooking pea protein sausage is less convenient than cooking a pork sausage. There are tons of vegan/vegetarian convenience products in the fridge aisle. Even if there was indeed some very minor convenience to cooking meat (which I am really in the dark about), are you really arguing your minimally bigger convenience is a good enough reason to kill a living being?
In some way I agree with you here, meat is heavily subsidized while vegetables aren’t (at least where I live) and it is a shame. Chicken wings can be cheaper per kg than some kind of vegetables. That’s a systemic problem and needs to be taken care of not by the consumer, but government regulations. But a) you know it is bad quality meat that is on the cheaper side, b) most people aren’t in a position where you have such financial pressure (food stamps etc) where you have to weigh calories per cent, c) vegan/vegetarian diets can still be cheap af as long as you don’t try to do instagrammable kale quinoa brokkoli sprouts smoothies with avocado and chia seed granola or some crap like that. Potato wedges with sour cream are a vegetarian dish. Beans with rice. Noodles and tomato sauce. It doesn’t have to get expensive or complicated.
if you’re cooking it’s probably roughly the same. but if you’re out and about, whether at a drive through or a neighborhood cookout, the meat might just be more convenient.
That’s one not on you though. There are what I think is called food deserts where there just aren’t a lot of vegetarian options around. But I think that’s changing. Even McDonald’s has a decent vegan/vegetarian menu by now.
so to be clear, sometimes meat is a better choice based on convenience.
Let’s say yes. I mean I think it would be healthier and just as convenient to just get an apple and a bun than a burger to be honest. The question is how much of a pro argument this is. It’s about as good as “wearing fur looks pretty so we should keep killing tigers for it”.
at no point have i proposed that the production is desirable, only the consumption.
i am barely middle class, but i still shop on calories per penny.
i never suggested you couldn’t get nutrients other places. but meat is one option for nutrients.