It really fucked me up when I realized that “picture this” wasn’t an entirely figurative saying, and everyone else does actually see stuff in their “mind’s eye.”
I can do that too. You’re misunderstanding the concept. I’m perfectly capable of drawing, eyes closed or not (though it’s much harder eyes closed, obviously). I do digital art. I just conceptualize things differently. I don’t have a mental image, it’s more like a knowledge of what shapes go together to make certain forms. I build things piece by piece from fundamental shapes that I analytically know make certain objects or creatures, but I don’t have an image of what it is until I have actually put it down in paper.
I don’t know if I worded that in a way that makes sense, as I’ve always struggled with explaining how I conceptualize to people that have an ability I don’t. I know what shapes make up a dog, but I can’t see the dog, if that makes any sense.
Your “eyes clothes” typo was so unexpected it got me good. I couldn’t stop giggling for a solid minute. My partner asked me what was so funny and I gasped out “eyes clothes” and she just sighed and walked away.
Do you think you could learn how to see in your head? I remember learning how to see 3d in drafting class, I bet you could learn how to see in your thoughts. Like maybe look at something, like a t-shirt, and closing your eyes, then opening them and see if you can continue picturing it? Just a thought, because like I said, I learned how to see 3d.
No, certainly not. It’s a condition known as aphantasia, and isn’t something that can be cured with practice. I have a lifetime of practice in conceptualizing in a different way though. I don’t feel that I’m missing out on anything really, just experiencing the world differently. I didn’t even know that I was any different than most until I was an adult, and a friend of mine made me realize it.
Someone with aphantasia might be able to learn how to conceptualize in a different way, but I don’t think you can train what’s not there, any more than a blind person could train themselves to see. There isn’t a lot of study into it though, and I’ve found it difficult to get solid information on my condition, so perhaps there’s more to learn. Why, for example, do I have a very vivid imagination of sounds? I can imagine an entire song in all of its different instruments as if I could hear it, but I can’t even conceive even a little bit of what it means to see something in my head.
I’ve had it explained to me very often by people with varying degrees of sincerity or understanding, and I still don’t quite get it. Is it like dreaming, or like a hallucination, or like an image you can’t really see but still know is there? It’s foreign to me, and no description I’ve heard makes it clear. I dream quite clearly and in color, but that’s like I’m there experiencing it in person. I’d love to learn more about aphantasia, especially since my fiancée has the opposite, hyperphantasia, and it would be nice to more easily collaborate as artists.
What others have found interesting in the past is how I conceptualize spaces around me, especially when imagining things like my DnD campaign that I run. I don’t see things in my head visually, but more have a general special sense of them. I don’t need to visualize my foot or my hand to know where it is. I don’t need to visualize the wall of my room that I’m very familiar with; even with my eyes closed I know my relative position in the space and can find the light switch in the dark, or the fan. It’s the same for my spacial reasoning. I can navigate the world perfectly fine, or conceptualize a fictional DnD battle, not visually, but more like through touch, though that’s not exactly the sensation. I cannot rotate the proverbial cube in my mind, but I can conceive of what another face might feel like, and, if it’s not too TMI, I have a very good mental map of my fiancée’s body, and could draw her accurately, even if I can’t see her.
Thanks for explaining so clearly. I hope someone does their thesis on this stuff, it really is fascinating.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with drafting, but when you draw elevations, it’s a flat version of 3d objects. I couldn’t really read a map until after I learned how to read elevations. You’re sort of pushing through and bringing forward objects from a flat drawing. It’s also a section, so it’s cut through a certain point of a floor plan. I could understand floor plans easily for some reason, but elevations and details were super hard. Then something clicked and I could read maps and all of the different types of drawings. I even remember where I was. Our brains are wild.
Someone with aphantasia might be able to learn how to conceptualize in a different way, but I don’t think you can train what’s not there, any more than a blind person could train themselves to see. There isn’t a lot of study into it though, and I’ve found it difficult to get solid information on my condition, so perhaps there’s more to learn. Why, for example, do I have a very vivid imagination of sounds? I can imagine an entire song in all of its different instruments as if I could hear it, but I can’t even conceive even a little bit of what it means to see something in my head.
That is so fascinating. I think I understand now, I probably couldn’t train myself to do the sound thing. I asked a friend with what you have to tell me what his home looked like growing up and he said it was white. I asked him if he could picture that home when he said it and he told me that no, it was like memorizing times tables, it’s just a fact. It blows my mind how our brains work.
As far as collaborating on the art, don’t discount the sounds, you could focus on that and your fiance could focus on the visuals. What a cool blend of talents.
Thank you for your genuine curiosity! I like talking about things like this, and it’s nice to not be confronted by people telling me I’m wrong about my own mind. As far as my fiancée, we do collaborate using music as well! I’m a musician and play dozens of instruments, all of which I hang around our house among her drawings and paintings. We like to mix her animation and my music.
There are so many quirky things about humans, I would never tell you you’re wrong. I want your sound thing and to keep my visual thing, lol. I was hoping we could learn like that guy who went blind and learned echo location.
There were some recent studies that early childhood trauma can cause it, which would explain why I suffer from aphantasia. Or I’m “lucky” to just inherit the bad genes.
And funny enough, my partner also has hyperphantasia.
A random thought, one thing that recently occurred to me, I often forget were I’ve placed things, that’s because usually people just picture where they’ve seen them. At least my partner does that.
Fascinating. I do have a lot of childhood trauma, though I wouldn’t consider it “early” childhood. And I do misplace things often, though that might be more due to ADHD or my general scatterbrained forgetfulness.
Books are fine. You just need to find authors who don’t spend two pages describing someone’s clothes, as you won’t remember anything past “pretty tall and dark haired”
Exactly that! Wish I knew I had this condition in high school when I was forced to read The Hunchback of Notre-Dame. It was a torture I’d happily pass.
I love reading, and I love writing and storytelling. I think books can be for anyone. I wouldn’t let a difference in perception preclude you from enjoying an entire form of media, entertainment, and information. For me, audiobooks work best to hold my attention, as I struggle to sit and read words in front of me without keeping myself busy. It’s not a fit for everyone, and not everyone will like reading, but I think it’s a very simple joy that so many people have had hammered out of them by bad parents, bad teachers, or bad education systems that taught them to dread or hate books and reading. I got back into reading as an adult, and it’s one of the most fulfilling parts of my day.
Same, thinking about it the idea of putting my hand in the bowl to do that is grossing me out too. Do you go in from the front or the back or do you kind of lean over?
Some people wipe standing up…
Some people can see images and hear voices inside their heads…
It really fucked me up when I realized that “picture this” wasn’t an entirely figurative saying, and everyone else does actually see stuff in their “mind’s eye.”
had you ever heard of artists drawing with their eyes clothes
Are those like sunglasses?
I can do that too. You’re misunderstanding the concept. I’m perfectly capable of drawing, eyes closed or not (though it’s much harder eyes closed, obviously). I do digital art. I just conceptualize things differently. I don’t have a mental image, it’s more like a knowledge of what shapes go together to make certain forms. I build things piece by piece from fundamental shapes that I analytically know make certain objects or creatures, but I don’t have an image of what it is until I have actually put it down in paper.
I don’t know if I worded that in a way that makes sense, as I’ve always struggled with explaining how I conceptualize to people that have an ability I don’t. I know what shapes make up a dog, but I can’t see the dog, if that makes any sense.
Your “eyes clothes” typo was so unexpected it got me good. I couldn’t stop giggling for a solid minute. My partner asked me what was so funny and I gasped out “eyes clothes” and she just sighed and walked away.
I’m actually really glad my mistake brought joy to you :3
Do you think you could learn how to see in your head? I remember learning how to see 3d in drafting class, I bet you could learn how to see in your thoughts. Like maybe look at something, like a t-shirt, and closing your eyes, then opening them and see if you can continue picturing it? Just a thought, because like I said, I learned how to see 3d.
No, certainly not. It’s a condition known as aphantasia, and isn’t something that can be cured with practice. I have a lifetime of practice in conceptualizing in a different way though. I don’t feel that I’m missing out on anything really, just experiencing the world differently. I didn’t even know that I was any different than most until I was an adult, and a friend of mine made me realize it.
Someone with aphantasia might be able to learn how to conceptualize in a different way, but I don’t think you can train what’s not there, any more than a blind person could train themselves to see. There isn’t a lot of study into it though, and I’ve found it difficult to get solid information on my condition, so perhaps there’s more to learn. Why, for example, do I have a very vivid imagination of sounds? I can imagine an entire song in all of its different instruments as if I could hear it, but I can’t even conceive even a little bit of what it means to see something in my head.
I’ve had it explained to me very often by people with varying degrees of sincerity or understanding, and I still don’t quite get it. Is it like dreaming, or like a hallucination, or like an image you can’t really see but still know is there? It’s foreign to me, and no description I’ve heard makes it clear. I dream quite clearly and in color, but that’s like I’m there experiencing it in person. I’d love to learn more about aphantasia, especially since my fiancée has the opposite, hyperphantasia, and it would be nice to more easily collaborate as artists.
What others have found interesting in the past is how I conceptualize spaces around me, especially when imagining things like my DnD campaign that I run. I don’t see things in my head visually, but more have a general special sense of them. I don’t need to visualize my foot or my hand to know where it is. I don’t need to visualize the wall of my room that I’m very familiar with; even with my eyes closed I know my relative position in the space and can find the light switch in the dark, or the fan. It’s the same for my spacial reasoning. I can navigate the world perfectly fine, or conceptualize a fictional DnD battle, not visually, but more like through touch, though that’s not exactly the sensation. I cannot rotate the proverbial cube in my mind, but I can conceive of what another face might feel like, and, if it’s not too TMI, I have a very good mental map of my fiancée’s body, and could draw her accurately, even if I can’t see her.
Thanks for explaining so clearly. I hope someone does their thesis on this stuff, it really is fascinating.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with drafting, but when you draw elevations, it’s a flat version of 3d objects. I couldn’t really read a map until after I learned how to read elevations. You’re sort of pushing through and bringing forward objects from a flat drawing. It’s also a section, so it’s cut through a certain point of a floor plan. I could understand floor plans easily for some reason, but elevations and details were super hard. Then something clicked and I could read maps and all of the different types of drawings. I even remember where I was. Our brains are wild.
That is so fascinating. I think I understand now, I probably couldn’t train myself to do the sound thing. I asked a friend with what you have to tell me what his home looked like growing up and he said it was white. I asked him if he could picture that home when he said it and he told me that no, it was like memorizing times tables, it’s just a fact. It blows my mind how our brains work.
As far as collaborating on the art, don’t discount the sounds, you could focus on that and your fiance could focus on the visuals. What a cool blend of talents.
Thank you for your genuine curiosity! I like talking about things like this, and it’s nice to not be confronted by people telling me I’m wrong about my own mind. As far as my fiancée, we do collaborate using music as well! I’m a musician and play dozens of instruments, all of which I hang around our house among her drawings and paintings. We like to mix her animation and my music.
There are so many quirky things about humans, I would never tell you you’re wrong. I want your sound thing and to keep my visual thing, lol. I was hoping we could learn like that guy who went blind and learned echo location.
There were some recent studies that early childhood trauma can cause it, which would explain why I suffer from aphantasia. Or I’m “lucky” to just inherit the bad genes.
And funny enough, my partner also has hyperphantasia.
A random thought, one thing that recently occurred to me, I often forget were I’ve placed things, that’s because usually people just picture where they’ve seen them. At least my partner does that.
Fascinating. I do have a lot of childhood trauma, though I wouldn’t consider it “early” childhood. And I do misplace things often, though that might be more due to ADHD or my general scatterbrained forgetfulness.
Realizing that made me hate books even more.
Books are fine. You just need to find authors who don’t spend two pages describing someone’s clothes, as you won’t remember anything past “pretty tall and dark haired”
Exactly that! Wish I knew I had this condition in high school when I was forced to read The Hunchback of Notre-Dame. It was a torture I’d happily pass.
I love reading, and I love writing and storytelling. I think books can be for anyone. I wouldn’t let a difference in perception preclude you from enjoying an entire form of media, entertainment, and information. For me, audiobooks work best to hold my attention, as I struggle to sit and read words in front of me without keeping myself busy. It’s not a fit for everyone, and not everyone will like reading, but I think it’s a very simple joy that so many people have had hammered out of them by bad parents, bad teachers, or bad education systems that taught them to dread or hate books and reading. I got back into reading as an adult, and it’s one of the most fulfilling parts of my day.
It’s okay homie… there are dozens of us ;-)
I used to, until it was pointed out that wiping while sitting is better so I switched
Why did you do it that way to begin with? I’m just curious.
Leftovers from when your parents did it for you as a kid that was able to use the toilet but not necessarily able to wipe properly?
That’s my hypothesis anyway
How is it “better”?
Keeps your cheeks spread so you don’t mush the poop when you stand up.
I switched from wiping from the back, to wiping from the front, to dabbing the bidet water off a little bit because bidets are absolutely incredible.
It has never occurred to me to sit while wiping
So you stand up and let the shit spread further?
More of a squat, I don’t stand up straight or anything.
So the popular option is to continue sitting and put your hand under to wipe?
Lift just one side so your buttocks spread, then reach from the side to wipe. All the while, the seat carries (most of) your weight.
I tilt one way.
Then wash my hands.
Eat more fiber.
Same, thinking about it the idea of putting my hand in the bowl to do that is grossing me out too. Do you go in from the front or the back or do you kind of lean over?
I do a lean over, and I’ll usually >!hold my cheeks apart so it doesn’t mush the poop into my crack!<
Interesting. I’m gonna go load up on taco bell for lunch so I can try this later.
You’re already sitting though…
Some just use their hands…
That link is staying blue. Also, gross.
Some people don’t wipe at all. Bidet gang represent!