Ffs. Russia is not going to fight NATO. Why’d they attack Georgia in 2008? Answer: To prevent them from joining NATO. Why’d they attack Ukraine? Answer: to prevent them from joining NATO. Russia is not dumb enough to fight anything that can throw nukes, that’s why they’re preventing the NATO umbrella from covering (what they consider to be) their sphere of influence.
Question: If Russia has no intention of fighting NATO then why would they give a fuck if Georgia joined NATO? If they were afraid of NATO invasion, as silly as that is, could they not just offer Georgia a similar mutual defense agreement? I cannot imagine any circumstance other than overt greed and expansionism that would require them to invade Georgia.
Yeah it is all bullshit. All the Eastern European countries that could, joined NATO in speedrun, because they knew Russia will claim them back as soon as it is capable to do so. Ukraine and Belarus decided to maintain good relationships, and look at how it paid back.
Russia is a cancer and the countries that hate them the most are their closest neighbors, exactly because they know what kind of cunt the Mother Russia is.
Because that would remove Georgia from Russia’s sphere of influence. They could no longer de facto dominate Georgia and Georgia would already be armed if a conflict with NATO started.
They do offer their own pact, called the CSTO, Collective Security Treaty Organization.
I think that’s why they invaded Georgia, overt greed. To be fair that also plays a role in NATO expansion. NATO won’t accept a country that can’t pull its own weight unless it has some kind of strategic value or economic value. It must be worth defending.
I never said they did. However they do insist that everyone participate in their “rules based trade system.” What happens to the countries that don’t want to participate or would rather have another trade system? What about countries that don’t want dollar dominance? It doesn’t go well.
If you don’t follow the rules of trading then don’t be surprised if no one wants to trade with you. It is not our job to support you playing queen bee.
And if you want to do your deals with some Banana Republic Monopoly Money, feel free to do so but be aware you have to pay higher prices as risk compensation if you want to trade with me.
People don’t trade With Dollar and Euro because they MUST but because it is the most economical method. Stop believing the Propaganda of Left, Right and Islamo Extremists.
Do you think the rules were made fairly? They weren’t, they were designed to entrench US dominance. Furthermore they’ve been weaponized to punish “competitors,” either rightly or wrongly. For this reason several countries are making moves to undermine dollar dominance, and it appears to be on its way out. Stick your head out of the Western media bubble and have a more objective opinion on the situation.
The Rules of Free Market are not “made” but “accepted”. I know, for conspiracy paranoids this is hard to grasp but sometimes things are just the way they are by nature.
And that Dollar and Euro dominate the financial market is nothing magic but simply the fact that they are free, stable, reliable and backed by huge industrial power. But feel free to use the Eritrean Nakfa instead to pay your bills. Tells us how well it worked.
The rules were definitely made and were accepted by most of the world for awhile. That is currently changing, to what, we don’t know. Yes, the Dollar and Euro are stable for now, but other major players in the world are uneasy with the way sanctions are being used, thus they are actively seeking to undermine this regime.
Hey so maybe stop being a dick too? This discussion really isn’t that exciting.
They didn’t plan to join NATO. Ukraine had a single digit percentage interest in NATO before crimea.
Russia doesn’t want Eastern European countries in NATO, because it makes it much harder to take them over.
NATO is a defensive alliance, and is no danger to Russia except for their imperialist goals. Best example of it is after Finland joined NATO Russia removed their troops from that border. That’s right Russia now has less troops there than they had when they were imaging Ukraine.
And one last thing: even if it was true, since when Russia can decide for sovereign nation who they form alliances with? The excuse to invade looks exactly as the same bullshit Nazi Germany invented with Poland (both claiming to save German minorities and also that was actually planning to invade Germany). They are not even original.
They didn’t plan to join NATO. Ukraine had a single digit percentage interest in NATO before crimea.
Moves were being made to join NATO back in 2008, but progress was shelved when pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych was elected. He was driven out of the country, Russia took Crimea, and then NATO seemed like a particularly good idea.
Russia doesn’t want Eastern European countries in NATO, because it makes it much harder to take them over.
I would also add that it takes them out of the Russian sphere of influence, which is Russia’s main concern. Why take over a country if they cooperate with you?
NATO is a defensive alliance, and is no danger to Russia except for their imperialist goals. Best example of it is after Finland joined NATO Russia removed their troops from that border. That’s right Russia now has less troops there than they had when they were imaging Ukraine.
Well, yes it’s defensive. No NATO country will attack Russia. However, I’d argue that Russia sees it as more than defensive. Each country that joins the alliance is one less country that Russia can dominate de facto. It’s militarily defensive, but that comes after an economic amd political offensive that removes the country from Russia’s influence. Now you might think, well, those countries entered that agreement voluntarily, and I’d say you’re correct, but Russia doesn’t care how it happened. They were taken from Russia as far as Russia is concerned.
I’d also argue that the troop removal from thr Finnish border may have more to do with needing troops in Ukraine than it would defending St Petersburg from Finland.
And one last thing: even if it was true, since when Russia can decide for sovereign nation who they form alliances with? The excuse to invade looks exactly as the same bullshit Nazi Germany invented with Poland (both claiming to save German minorities and also that was actually planning to invade Germany). They are not even original.
Well they did decide in 2008 in Georgia and they just did in Ukraine. Yes, their justification was mostly BS for domestic consumption, but that doesn’t really matter in the end. Other imperialist countries do this, like the US, China, France, etc, but they’re more subtle and you’re in the West’s media bubble, making it really hard to get an impartial source.
As much as I agree with your overall arguement, I just want to point out that the main reason why russia now has fewer troops along the finnish and norwegian border is because they needed to reinforce the donbass leather factory. If they had the resources, the manpower on the border would probably remain the same.
Their plan isn’t to fight NATO directly. It’s to instigate domestic political support in foreign countries against entities like NATO and the EU, and push nationalism and isolationism and defeatism into enough people’s heads so that the bigger countries think it isn’t worth fighting Russia to defend another smaller country that is not their own. It’s about killing the idea of article 5 and thus NATO’s reason to exist, so that Russia can confront each country on a bilateral basis where they have the military advantage if no one is coming to their defense.
This probably wont happen with an assault on a major urban area, but little chunks of unpopulated Finland or Norway. How willing would the American public be to send pilots to die for Lapland? If the major powers blink and don’t feel like committing, Russia continues to escalate, like they’ve been doing for the past 15 years
That sounds like an extremely long-term plan, plus every action Russia would take in pursuit of this goal would be wildly counterproductive to the long-term, so I kind of doubt its true. For example, NATO just expanded in reaction to the Ukraine invasion.
If so, those were magnificent own goals. Ukraine wasn’t going to join nato until the little green men showed up, and Sweden and Finland didn’t want to join nato until the full scale invasion. Nato was languishing before all this happened, now they’re re-arming.
You’re mostly right, but in the interest of accuracy: Ukraine was making moves to join NATO way back in 2008, (possibly because of Russia’s invasion of Georgia) but plans were put on hold when pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych was president. Once a coup kicked him out of office and Russia seized Crimea, NATO membership became a high priority.
Ask Russians or their braindead boot lickers and it’s a coup - ask the people there fighting for their own country and against russification and it’s a revolution ;)
It was an overthrow of a democratically elected president. Not every Ukrainian was happy about it, obviously, since some Ukrainians were/are fighting the revolutionaries.
That seemed more like a reminder to Ukraine that they still were. Or perhaps it was something like, if you’re going to choose the EU over us, then we’re taking our naval base.
Unfortunately it’s much easier and faster for Russia to start a war than it is to join NATO. A country can’t join NATO if they’re at war or have border disputes.
Ffs. Russia is not going to fight NATO. Why’d they attack Georgia in 2008? Answer: To prevent them from joining NATO. Why’d they attack Ukraine? Answer: to prevent them from joining NATO. Russia is not dumb enough to fight anything that can throw nukes, that’s why they’re preventing the NATO umbrella from covering (what they consider to be) their sphere of influence.
Question: If Russia has no intention of fighting NATO then why would they give a fuck if Georgia joined NATO? If they were afraid of NATO invasion, as silly as that is, could they not just offer Georgia a similar mutual defense agreement? I cannot imagine any circumstance other than overt greed and expansionism that would require them to invade Georgia.
Yeah it is all bullshit. All the Eastern European countries that could, joined NATO in speedrun, because they knew Russia will claim them back as soon as it is capable to do so. Ukraine and Belarus decided to maintain good relationships, and look at how it paid back.
Russia is a cancer and the countries that hate them the most are their closest neighbors, exactly because they know what kind of cunt the Mother Russia is.
You weren’t paying attention to the events behind the scenes. Maybe this will clue you in on what sorts of things were happening: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
There is a bigger cancer and its spread reaches out much further.
Cancer of anti-authoritarianism and democracy you mean? Remind me again… What was Milosevic responsible for?
Because that would remove Georgia from Russia’s sphere of influence. They could no longer de facto dominate Georgia and Georgia would already be armed if a conflict with NATO started.
They do offer their own pact, called the CSTO, Collective Security Treaty Organization.
I think that’s why they invaded Georgia, overt greed. To be fair that also plays a role in NATO expansion. NATO won’t accept a country that can’t pull its own weight unless it has some kind of strategic value or economic value. It must be worth defending.
The West doesn’t conquer. The West sets rules for joining them. And the rules are pretty tough. And still everybody wants in.
I never said they did. However they do insist that everyone participate in their “rules based trade system.” What happens to the countries that don’t want to participate or would rather have another trade system? What about countries that don’t want dollar dominance? It doesn’t go well.
If you don’t follow the rules of trading then don’t be surprised if no one wants to trade with you. It is not our job to support you playing queen bee.
And if you want to do your deals with some Banana Republic Monopoly Money, feel free to do so but be aware you have to pay higher prices as risk compensation if you want to trade with me.
People don’t trade With Dollar and Euro because they MUST but because it is the most economical method. Stop believing the Propaganda of Left, Right and Islamo Extremists.
Do you think the rules were made fairly? They weren’t, they were designed to entrench US dominance. Furthermore they’ve been weaponized to punish “competitors,” either rightly or wrongly. For this reason several countries are making moves to undermine dollar dominance, and it appears to be on its way out. Stick your head out of the Western media bubble and have a more objective opinion on the situation.
Bro, whatever you have taken. Lessen it.
The Rules of Free Market are not “made” but “accepted”. I know, for conspiracy paranoids this is hard to grasp but sometimes things are just the way they are by nature.
And that Dollar and Euro dominate the financial market is nothing magic but simply the fact that they are free, stable, reliable and backed by huge industrial power. But feel free to use the Eritrean Nakfa instead to pay your bills. Tells us how well it worked.
The rules were definitely made and were accepted by most of the world for awhile. That is currently changing, to what, we don’t know. Yes, the Dollar and Euro are stable for now, but other major players in the world are uneasy with the way sanctions are being used, thus they are actively seeking to undermine this regime.
Hey so maybe stop being a dick too? This discussion really isn’t that exciting.
Do you think if eastern nations made a “defensive alliance” and included Mexico that the US would be fine with it?
Do you think the US would be justified in such a situation to invade Mexico, and would you support it?
Depends on what the “defensive alliance” is trying to do.
Same that NATO is “trying to do” I suppose
You basically just described Cuba, though? The USA didn’t like Castro but we didn’t launch a fullscale war right before the Cuban Missile Crisis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion
Yes, and?
They didn’t plan to join NATO. Ukraine had a single digit percentage interest in NATO before crimea.
Russia doesn’t want Eastern European countries in NATO, because it makes it much harder to take them over.
NATO is a defensive alliance, and is no danger to Russia except for their imperialist goals. Best example of it is after Finland joined NATO Russia removed their troops from that border. That’s right Russia now has less troops there than they had when they were imaging Ukraine.
And one last thing: even if it was true, since when Russia can decide for sovereign nation who they form alliances with? The excuse to invade looks exactly as the same bullshit Nazi Germany invented with Poland (both claiming to save German minorities and also that was actually planning to invade Germany). They are not even original.
Moves were being made to join NATO back in 2008, but progress was shelved when pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych was elected. He was driven out of the country, Russia took Crimea, and then NATO seemed like a particularly good idea.
I would also add that it takes them out of the Russian sphere of influence, which is Russia’s main concern. Why take over a country if they cooperate with you?
Well, yes it’s defensive. No NATO country will attack Russia. However, I’d argue that Russia sees it as more than defensive. Each country that joins the alliance is one less country that Russia can dominate de facto. It’s militarily defensive, but that comes after an economic amd political offensive that removes the country from Russia’s influence. Now you might think, well, those countries entered that agreement voluntarily, and I’d say you’re correct, but Russia doesn’t care how it happened. They were taken from Russia as far as Russia is concerned.
I’d also argue that the troop removal from thr Finnish border may have more to do with needing troops in Ukraine than it would defending St Petersburg from Finland.
Well they did decide in 2008 in Georgia and they just did in Ukraine. Yes, their justification was mostly BS for domestic consumption, but that doesn’t really matter in the end. Other imperialist countries do this, like the US, China, France, etc, but they’re more subtle and you’re in the West’s media bubble, making it really hard to get an impartial source.
As much as I agree with your overall arguement, I just want to point out that the main reason why russia now has fewer troops along the finnish and norwegian border is because they needed to reinforce the donbass leather factory. If they had the resources, the manpower on the border would probably remain the same.
Their plan isn’t to fight NATO directly. It’s to instigate domestic political support in foreign countries against entities like NATO and the EU, and push nationalism and isolationism and defeatism into enough people’s heads so that the bigger countries think it isn’t worth fighting Russia to defend another smaller country that is not their own. It’s about killing the idea of article 5 and thus NATO’s reason to exist, so that Russia can confront each country on a bilateral basis where they have the military advantage if no one is coming to their defense.
This probably wont happen with an assault on a major urban area, but little chunks of unpopulated Finland or Norway. How willing would the American public be to send pilots to die for Lapland? If the major powers blink and don’t feel like committing, Russia continues to escalate, like they’ve been doing for the past 15 years
To be fair, Lapland contains Santa Clauses’ workshop.
Imagine the support the West would give to save Christmas.
/S
That sounds like an extremely long-term plan, plus every action Russia would take in pursuit of this goal would be wildly counterproductive to the long-term, so I kind of doubt its true. For example, NATO just expanded in reaction to the Ukraine invasion.
I see you watch Anders Puck Nielsen on Youtube. Ryan McBeth is also interesting.
If so, those were magnificent own goals. Ukraine wasn’t going to join nato until the little green men showed up, and Sweden and Finland didn’t want to join nato until the full scale invasion. Nato was languishing before all this happened, now they’re re-arming.
You’re mostly right, but in the interest of accuracy: Ukraine was making moves to join NATO way back in 2008, (possibly because of Russia’s invasion of Georgia) but plans were put on hold when pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych was president. Once a coup kicked him out of office and Russia seized Crimea, NATO membership became a high priority.
It wasn’t a coup. It was a revolution.
That really depends who you ask.
Ask Russians or their braindead boot lickers and it’s a coup - ask the people there fighting for their own country and against russification and it’s a revolution ;)
It was an overthrow of a democratically elected president. Not every Ukrainian was happy about it, obviously, since some Ukrainians were/are fighting the revolutionaries.
No, it depends on Definition and Wikipedia is a good start.
Wikipedia: Coup
Wikipedia: Revolution
Horse Poo doesn’t get Chocolate Cream just because you ask someone else.
Uh huh. If Trump’s people succeed on Jan 6th would it be a revolution or a coup? I’ll go with whichever you answer.
And in the process, more of their neighbors have now joined NATO or are supporting NATO with newfound effort.
If Russia is dumb enough to do that, they’re dumb enough to fight NATO.
Those countries were already well outside their sphere of influence. I don’t think they care.
And Ukraine wasn’t after they seized Crimea?
That seemed more like a reminder to Ukraine that they still were. Or perhaps it was something like, if you’re going to choose the EU over us, then we’re taking our naval base.
This is exactly why those countries should join NATO.
Unfortunately it’s much easier and faster for Russia to start a war than it is to join NATO. A country can’t join NATO if they’re at war or have border disputes.
I hope you’re right, they’ve been huffing the “NATO will be easy to defeat” propaganda for as long as NATO has existed
You are wrong because you don’t know what war they want to fight:
Anders Puck Nielsen - NATO-Russia war: Can it really happen?
lol, no.