So this is obviously a silly comic, but I wanted to put out another viewpoint. Just because you want cool new thing doesn’t mean you approve or want capitalism. You can still want everyone to have the opportunity to be able to experience the cool new thing. Consumption isn’t necessarily bad, overconsumption I’d say is. Idk maybe I’m a bit wrong, but I don’t see any reason to beat yourself up for having wants or desires.
Maybe a little. Kids in Africa are dying as slave laborers in cobalt mines so I can type this reply to you and play the video games I like to play.
The problem is between human rights and profits, profits usually win. You’re pitting people with a little bit of free time against a large conglomerate of corporations. Most of the time the outcome isn’t a surprise.
The problem is that we don’t hold anyone accountable for the damages done, we’re unwilling to embrace repair culture, unwilling to pay the higher prices for ethical and sustainable products, and fully capable of objectifying faraway cobalt mine workers (and their analogs) as nothing more than something we might be upset about if it were more in our faces.
I do definitely believe corporate greed is to blame, but consumer need drives the greed.
You’re right, we don’t hold them accountable. We encourage it! We create laws to empower corporations to do what they want. We bail them out. We give them tax breaks to incentivize them to build in our state. And then we scold them on Lemmy.
If we don’t hold them accountable, does that mean what they’re doing is ethical? What do you propose consumers do? Should we stop buying computers because of the cobalt minor slave kids? Are you going to be the one to tell everyone we need to stop buying computers?
We’ve tried putting the burden on the shoulder of consumers for years now. No one has the time or money to do it. Stuff has only gotten worse. It doesn’t work.
Or you know we could vote for more corporate taxes and better labor laws. We can try to get more transparency in how corporations outsource their work. We can try to form more worker co-ops. And push for democracy in workplaces.
Capitalism says make the new thing, then make versions as cheaply and as lavishly as possible as the market saturates and profit margins decrease, skim as much profit as possible for the owner class by exploiting workers and consumers until the bottom falls out, then declare bankruptcy, fire all of your employees, sell the business to a liquidator, and repeat.
An intentional civilization would make the new thing, then use the abundance of profit from interest to design improved versions of the thing, eventually scaling down production to a niche market of artisan products run by people with a passion for the work, and releasing all of the information into the open source market so that individuals can make their own modifications. No exploitation, no inequality, all the benefits of capitalism’s infrastructure.
yeah, i bought a Fairphone. sure, it automatically generates e-waste and was pretty pricy, but i hope to use it for at least 5 years. that makes it worth it to me.
It’s like sugar, you get a hit, energy, then it fades, and you’re chasing that micro high
That’s consumption. We’re all guilty of it one way or another, anything you don’t need or higher priced than the value it brings us is on one end of the spectrum, and it gives you a fake high while delaying your financial independence
We should strive to feed this system as little as possible, it does not benefit us.
It depends on how you think you should get the cool new things. If you see cool thing and are happy to work to buy it, congrats capitalist! If you see cool thing and expect someone to give it to you, you either believe in Santa, or are a socialist.
I desire the world to be better for the future generations and have them be able to live their lives judgement free. I don’t think that’ll spawn suffering onto others. It may make me feel miserable because it’s a seemingly insurmountable task. However, I take comfort in the fact I can make my city/state a better place for my children and I hope to impact it so that others feel the same about making it better and assuring that it stays better. As long as there is one place I have left better off so the future can call it home, I’ll be able to pass on happy.
Another thing, Capitalism doesn’t need you to want it or to approve of it, nor does White Supremacy, or Patriarchy, or other systems of bigotry need the approval or support of their oppressed in order to perpetuate.
Yes but if you’re going to imply his wanting something means her perpetuates capitalism, which is fair, you need to acknowledge your role as well. Because your comment has an air of superiority/judgment that feels undeserved, as you are here on Lemmy with your smartphone/computer as well.
So this is obviously a silly comic, but I wanted to put out another viewpoint. Just because you want cool new thing doesn’t mean you approve or want capitalism. You can still want everyone to have the opportunity to be able to experience the cool new thing. Consumption isn’t necessarily bad, overconsumption I’d say is. Idk maybe I’m a bit wrong, but I don’t see any reason to beat yourself up for having wants or desires.
Id argue there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Trace a supply and sales chain far enough, and somewhere there is abuse.
90% of the time when I see that phrase, people are using it to say it’s pointless to boycot a particularly bad company
Oh I haven’t heard that pairing, that’s awful. Boycotts are not pointless. They don’t really address root causes, ofc, but they’re something.
You should watch The Good Place if you haven’t. They definitely explore that thought and it’s an outstanding show in general.
Can confirm that show is great.
Might be the single smartest show I’ve ever seen on TV
I agree with you, but to be clear, you aren’t saying it’s not okay to have things you want right?
The wording of your post made me think you were refuting that argument.
Im saying we are all actively participating in abuse when when buy what we want. It depends how you internalize that fact as to whether its OK or not.
How reductive
Maybe a little. Kids in Africa are dying as slave laborers in cobalt mines so I can type this reply to you and play the video games I like to play.
The problem is between human rights and profits, profits usually win. You’re pitting people with a little bit of free time against a large conglomerate of corporations. Most of the time the outcome isn’t a surprise.
Whatabout Whatabout Whatabout!
The problem is that we don’t hold anyone accountable for the damages done, we’re unwilling to embrace repair culture, unwilling to pay the higher prices for ethical and sustainable products, and fully capable of objectifying faraway cobalt mine workers (and their analogs) as nothing more than something we might be upset about if it were more in our faces.
I do definitely believe corporate greed is to blame, but consumer need drives the greed.
It’s our dollars they’re after.
I just buy whatever I can secondhand and that the best I can do.
You’re right, we don’t hold them accountable. We encourage it! We create laws to empower corporations to do what they want. We bail them out. We give them tax breaks to incentivize them to build in our state. And then we scold them on Lemmy.
If we don’t hold them accountable, does that mean what they’re doing is ethical? What do you propose consumers do? Should we stop buying computers because of the cobalt minor slave kids? Are you going to be the one to tell everyone we need to stop buying computers?
We’ve tried putting the burden on the shoulder of consumers for years now. No one has the time or money to do it. Stuff has only gotten worse. It doesn’t work.
So, do nothing! You’re going to do that anyway.
Or you know we could vote for more corporate taxes and better labor laws. We can try to get more transparency in how corporations outsource their work. We can try to form more worker co-ops. And push for democracy in workplaces.
Whatever lets you sleep at night.
I simply accept that we are all culpable for the abuses around us.
Capitalism says make the new thing, then make versions as cheaply and as lavishly as possible as the market saturates and profit margins decrease, skim as much profit as possible for the owner class by exploiting workers and consumers until the bottom falls out, then declare bankruptcy, fire all of your employees, sell the business to a liquidator, and repeat.
An intentional civilization would make the new thing, then use the abundance of profit from interest to design improved versions of the thing, eventually scaling down production to a niche market of artisan products run by people with a passion for the work, and releasing all of the information into the open source market so that individuals can make their own modifications. No exploitation, no inequality, all the benefits of capitalism’s infrastructure.
CONSOOOOOOM
yeah, i bought a Fairphone. sure, it automatically generates e-waste and was pretty pricy, but i hope to use it for at least 5 years. that makes it worth it to me.
Im waiting for my Pixel to die first, but I definitely am looking at the Fairphone. Id buy it now, but i cant justify just tossing my current phone
Consumption in general is a gradient though
It’s like sugar, you get a hit, energy, then it fades, and you’re chasing that micro high
That’s consumption. We’re all guilty of it one way or another, anything you don’t need or higher priced than the value it brings us is on one end of the spectrum, and it gives you a fake high while delaying your financial independence
We should strive to feed this system as little as possible, it does not benefit us.
It depends on how you think you should get the cool new things. If you see cool thing and are happy to work to buy it, congrats capitalist! If you see cool thing and expect someone to give it to you, you either believe in Santa, or are a socialist.
All suffering is born of desire.
So if you get a disease and suffer, it’s because you were desiring something?
I desire to not suffer
How dare you!
You desired health and did not accept sickness as a natural part of life.
And that caused the sickness?
Of course not. The sickness was caused by external factors; your suffering from the sickness was caused by your desire for health.
I don’t think you get to choose whether or not your illness is suffering at that point.
Downvoted for quoting Buddha, never change lemmy, never change 🙄
I desire the world to be better for the future generations and have them be able to live their lives judgement free. I don’t think that’ll spawn suffering onto others. It may make me feel miserable because it’s a seemingly insurmountable task. However, I take comfort in the fact I can make my city/state a better place for my children and I hope to impact it so that others feel the same about making it better and assuring that it stays better. As long as there is one place I have left better off so the future can call it home, I’ll be able to pass on happy.
He didn’t say all desire is bad. He is saying all suffering is born of desire. It’s a square-rectangle situation.
You’re right, I misunderstood
Another thing, Capitalism doesn’t need you to want it or to approve of it, nor does White Supremacy, or Patriarchy, or other systems of bigotry need the approval or support of their oppressed in order to perpetuate.
Do you need help carrying all those apples and oranges?
Yes but if you’re going to imply his wanting something means her perpetuates capitalism, which is fair, you need to acknowledge your role as well. Because your comment has an air of superiority/judgment that feels undeserved, as you are here on Lemmy with your smartphone/computer as well.
What?