Losing multiple cities to a tiny domestic invading force of mercenaries after completely losing control of said force due to lack of command discipline, and finally only being able to force them to disband by threatening the families of the mercenaries involved isn’t exactly a sign of strength, though, is it? It’s not exactly what we’d expect of a professional modern military.
It would be like if Erik Prince took his Blackwater army and started marching on Washington, capturing towns along the way, and the US army was helpless to stop them until the American government threatened to hunt down and kill the family members of Blackwater mercenaries.
That would be considered unusual, and not really a sign of political or military strength.
If Erik Prince marched Blackwater through some American cities and – instead of sending the U.S. military to start a hot war on its own soil – American leadership pressured Prince and Blackwater to go home, would you be calling the president weak for not turning Virginia into a battlefield?
I would think American leadership completely dysfunctional if they allowed that situation to occur. If they did not have enough command authority to trust that the US military wouldn’t confront Prince with immediate and overwhelming force when ordered, the US would be a laughingstock. The scenario is borderline unimaginable in a developed country with anything resembling a modern political infrastructure.
Don’t get me wrong. I love Russia. I was originally trained as a Sovietologist, when that was still a thing you could be an -ologist of. I could talk for hours about strategic weapons systems and Russian prep for NBC warfare and what the politics in the Kremlin were like under the troika approach and why the fascistic tendencies of Putin in rejecting Russian political history in favor of personal enrichment and plundering the nation have irrevocably broken Russian politics.
But that’s for another day. Putin responded the way dictators in developing nations do, not like someone who actually has command and control over their modern military forces. I mean, it’s a Russian tradition to threaten the families of people who publicly disagree with leadership. In the US, the forces brought to bear against Blackwater’s attempted putsch would have been so overwhelming that his own men would have arrested him. But as much as I hate Blackwater and think Prince should probably be in prison for war crimes, their cadre was recruited from a different class of people than Wagner.
the US military wouldn’t confront Prince with immediate and overwhelming force
You realize that’s the worst-case scenario of the incident we’re talking about, right? A sane leader would want to avoid starting a pitched battle in their backyard at all costs, and that’s entirely independent of speculation about control over the military.
The scenario is borderline unimaginable in a developed country with anything resembling a modern political infrastructure.
We had a half-assed putsch of our own not even three years ago.
A sane leader would want to avoid starting a pitched battle…
A competent government would have prevented it from occurring. The IS government is hardly a model of efficiency, and that goes double for the military. However, it doesn’t happen here because it’s not something that’s organizationally enabled. Blackwater would be slaughtered in hours, for instance. I absolutely hate Blackwater, I think Prince is a fascist just like Prigo who would absolutely pull a Wagner if he thought he could. He knows he’s better off using bribes to gain power and wealth.
And I wouldn’t call J6 a putsch if we’re using that term in context to describe a military invasion by heavily armed forces gone rogue. But even if we do, the point we are discussing is that it is characteristic of a crap-tier government to be unable to put it down. Trump left the US government almost unable to put down a riot that he invoked and that consisted of a few thousand angry but mostly unarmed rednecks. Again, it was on a different scale, but once a more competent government was in place we saw a thousand arrests, not a threat to kill the families of the J6 rioters. It was a planned violent coup, but the plan was absolute shit because the planners are absolute idiots.
You claim they started with tractors. This is utter nonsense; the AFU started the war as a legitimate military, especially after it took the decade following the Minsk agreements to arm up in anticipation of this war.
You also claim they are pushing Russia back despite the front not moving appreciably in the past year, even during the latest vaunted counteroffensive.
You claim they started with tractors. This is utter nonsense; the AFU started the war as a legitimate military, especially after it took the decade following the Minsk agreements to arm up in anticipation of this war.
Russia used to call itself the 2nd strongest military on Earth.
Now they’re clearly the 2nd strongest military in Ukraine. And they’re sliding down.
You might not understand this, but they literally only survived because everyone was terrified of them, ‘Crazy Ivan’ who snaps and does something stupid.
That illusion SHATTERED with the failure to take Kyiv, it shattered and Europe’s fear turned to rage, rage at being intimidated for decades by a clearly broken joke of a power.
Until last year Russia wasn’t worth our interest, there was nothing there of value or threat, it was a far away, annoying country but it was someone else’s problem.
Now, Europe wants to watch them burn for fun.
If they hadn’t invaded Ukraine they would have been able to hold this illusion for decades more while the oligarchs continued to rob the country to deposit into British banks, but now, Russia is a threat that needs to be dealt with.
Fortunately, it’s not much of a threat, and this shouldn’t take too long, the only reason it’s taking this long right now is because we can only help indirectly through Ukraine.
But Russia is stupid, hopefully they’ll do something Russian and pick a fight with the rest of NATO, because that’s just what they do.
Now they’re clearly the 2nd strongest military in Ukraine.
Delusions like this are sending Ukranians to pointless deaths right now.
The worst part is you will never stop to consider the implications of being so wrong on this when the war is finally resolved (with Russia and Ukraine in basically the same territories as now). Instead, you’ll toss this one in the “history” pile with Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc., you know, the wars where you tell yourself you would have seen through the propaganda had you witnessed it in real time. Then you’ll cheerlead the next war because It’s A Good One This Time.
no ones bragging here, the material reality of the situation is ukraines casualities are 3:1 and russia remains in control of the conflict and where the lines are; every ukranian advancement recently has come at heavy cost
Well by the conditions the russian federation placed 18 months ago would mean that yes Ukraine is winning. The fact the front lines are static does not mean what you think it does.
No, they were losing to tractors, and Moskva was sunk without a navy.
Now they’re getting real gear and training to play.
The only thing Russia ever wins are Darwin awards. Fucking being proud of almost hurting a country a fraction of your size right next door, like the US being proud of conquering Ottawa.
All of Europe hates Russia with an all-consuming passion, except sometimes Serbia.
And… that’s where you live! That’s like all my neighbors thinking I’m a piece of shit and me saying “Oh yeah, well there are people in North Korea who don’t hate me!”
Not that you have shame? But this post is literally about putin assassinating a citizen of his in cold blood with no trial alongside several other innocent bystanders.
And you tried to use the word fascist to someone on the internet.
The people that died were fascists and Mercs, why do you care how they died? Do you hate Russia or not? This was a truly successful denazification action if you wanna get silly with it.
“Evil Russians.” Jesus Christ. As if the West did not rehabilitate European fascists immediately after WW2 and end up on the side of imperialism in every conflict around the world for the rest of the century and beyond. Many of which they themselves instigated. Get a fucking grip.
Definitely did not miss that. Whatever you think about the USSR, you cannot, without grotesque distortions of history, say that they rehabilitated European fascism. They executed nazis while the western powers were giving them citizenship, jobs, money, and weapons. And if you think soviet efforts to support revolutionary movements around the globe were “imperialism,” I’m not sure what to tell you besides please read a book.
The enemy is both strong and weak at the same time. Russians are simultaneously cowardly, repulsive and primitive (and evil, according to you), while also being barely held at bay because their innate savage brutality lets them ignore casualties, but like in an evil way, not the good heroic way we ignore casulaties when we drive our tanks headfirst into minefields. Gotcha.
you know you don’t have to forcibly try to interpret every event as a sign of Russian weakness
Truly. The mental gymnastics are impressive sometimes.
Losing multiple cities to a tiny domestic invading force of mercenaries after completely losing control of said force due to lack of command discipline, and finally only being able to force them to disband by threatening the families of the mercenaries involved isn’t exactly a sign of strength, though, is it? It’s not exactly what we’d expect of a professional modern military.
It would be like if Erik Prince took his Blackwater army and started marching on Washington, capturing towns along the way, and the US army was helpless to stop them until the American government threatened to hunt down and kill the family members of Blackwater mercenaries.
That would be considered unusual, and not really a sign of political or military strength.
If Erik Prince marched Blackwater through some American cities and – instead of sending the U.S. military to start a hot war on its own soil – American leadership pressured Prince and Blackwater to go home, would you be calling the president weak for not turning Virginia into a battlefield?
hexbear emojis
I would think American leadership completely dysfunctional if they allowed that situation to occur. If they did not have enough command authority to trust that the US military wouldn’t confront Prince with immediate and overwhelming force when ordered, the US would be a laughingstock. The scenario is borderline unimaginable in a developed country with anything resembling a modern political infrastructure.
Don’t get me wrong. I love Russia. I was originally trained as a Sovietologist, when that was still a thing you could be an -ologist of. I could talk for hours about strategic weapons systems and Russian prep for NBC warfare and what the politics in the Kremlin were like under the troika approach and why the fascistic tendencies of Putin in rejecting Russian political history in favor of personal enrichment and plundering the nation have irrevocably broken Russian politics.
But that’s for another day. Putin responded the way dictators in developing nations do, not like someone who actually has command and control over their modern military forces. I mean, it’s a Russian tradition to threaten the families of people who publicly disagree with leadership. In the US, the forces brought to bear against Blackwater’s attempted putsch would have been so overwhelming that his own men would have arrested him. But as much as I hate Blackwater and think Prince should probably be in prison for war crimes, their cadre was recruited from a different class of people than Wagner.
You realize that’s the worst-case scenario of the incident we’re talking about, right? A sane leader would want to avoid starting a pitched battle in their backyard at all costs, and that’s entirely independent of speculation about control over the military.
We had a half-assed putsch of our own not even three years ago.
A competent government would have prevented it from occurring. The IS government is hardly a model of efficiency, and that goes double for the military. However, it doesn’t happen here because it’s not something that’s organizationally enabled. Blackwater would be slaughtered in hours, for instance. I absolutely hate Blackwater, I think Prince is a fascist just like Prigo who would absolutely pull a Wagner if he thought he could. He knows he’s better off using bribes to gain power and wealth.
And I wouldn’t call J6 a putsch if we’re using that term in context to describe a military invasion by heavily armed forces gone rogue. But even if we do, the point we are discussing is that it is characteristic of a crap-tier government to be unable to put it down. Trump left the US government almost unable to put down a riot that he invoked and that consisted of a few thousand angry but mostly unarmed rednecks. Again, it was on a different scale, but once a more competent government was in place we saw a thousand arrests, not a threat to kill the families of the J6 rioters. It was a planned violent coup, but the plan was absolute shit because the planners are absolute idiots.
They were losing a war to a bunch of tractors and their flagship was sunk by a country without a navy.
It’s not Russian weakness, it’s Russian stupidity.
Didn’t realize those billions in aid were for tractors.
They stopped Russia with tractors.
Now they’re pushing them back with real gear.
Jokerfication: when you kind of pity someone for being this propagandized, but laugh at them because it’s pretty funny
Yes… I am the propagandized one.
Not the rural poor being marched off to die for half the price of a lada they’ll never receive for an oligarch’s pride.
All I can say is: Please, PLEASE! Make sure they keep marching.
You claim they started with tractors. This is utter nonsense; the AFU started the war as a legitimate military, especially after it took the decade following the Minsk agreements to arm up in anticipation of this war.
You also claim they are pushing Russia back despite the front not moving appreciably in the past year, even during the latest vaunted counteroffensive.
Remember, libs dont know anything about the context pre-war. It was all Putins desire to conquer ukraine.
Russia used to call itself the 2nd strongest military on Earth.
Now they’re clearly the 2nd strongest military in Ukraine. And they’re sliding down.
You might not understand this, but they literally only survived because everyone was terrified of them, ‘Crazy Ivan’ who snaps and does something stupid.
That illusion SHATTERED with the failure to take Kyiv, it shattered and Europe’s fear turned to rage, rage at being intimidated for decades by a clearly broken joke of a power.
Until last year Russia wasn’t worth our interest, there was nothing there of value or threat, it was a far away, annoying country but it was someone else’s problem.
Now, Europe wants to watch them burn for fun.
If they hadn’t invaded Ukraine they would have been able to hold this illusion for decades more while the oligarchs continued to rob the country to deposit into British banks, but now, Russia is a threat that needs to be dealt with.
Fortunately, it’s not much of a threat, and this shouldn’t take too long, the only reason it’s taking this long right now is because we can only help indirectly through Ukraine.
But Russia is stupid, hopefully they’ll do something Russian and pick a fight with the rest of NATO, because that’s just what they do.
Delusions like this are sending Ukranians to pointless deaths right now.
The worst part is you will never stop to consider the implications of being so wrong on this when the war is finally resolved (with Russia and Ukraine in basically the same territories as now). Instead, you’ll toss this one in the “history” pile with Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc., you know, the wars where you tell yourself you would have seen through the propaganda had you witnessed it in real time. Then you’ll cheerlead the next war because It’s A Good One This Time.
I hope they don’t because that would in all likelihood escalate to nuclear war.
‘ukraine is totally winning’ he continues to say as 33% of ukraine remains occupied by russia
Russia is 5x the size of Ukraine, and called itself the 2nd most powerful army on the planet.
Now it’s the second most powerful army in Ukraine.
You’re bragging after they got their ass handed to them by their version of Canadians.
no ones bragging here, the material reality of the situation is ukraines casualities are 3:1 and russia remains in control of the conflict and where the lines are; every ukranian advancement recently has come at heavy cost
Consider how much of that is just tundra.
Well by the conditions the russian federation placed 18 months ago would mean that yes Ukraine is winning. The fact the front lines are static does not mean what you think it does.
And what were those conditions Russia stated as its aims at the beginning of the war?
pushin em back 15 miles is good for you?
Do you know how many people pointlessly died for nothing?
were? so you admit that Russia is winning?
besides, this is not what this thread is about, go cope to someone who cares
No, they were losing to tractors, and Moskva was sunk without a navy.
Now they’re getting real gear and training to play.
The only thing Russia ever wins are Darwin awards. Fucking being proud of almost hurting a country a fraction of your size right next door, like the US being proud of conquering Ottawa.
Say hi to those F-16s for me.
I’m sure they’ll be just as effective as the Leopards, the ghost of kieyiev will destroy the entire Russian army
They don’t need a ghost of Kyiv, they know the ultimate weakness of all Russians:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/13hcf63/ukrainians_allegedly_dropped_bottles_of_vodka_at/
You guys are going to suffer, and I would feel bad if you hadn’t started this whole nightmare.
Enlighten us then
All of Europe hates Russia with an all-consuming passion, except sometimes Serbia.
And… that’s where you live! That’s like all my neighbors thinking I’m a piece of shit and me saying “Oh yeah, well there are people in North Korea who don’t hate me!”
I live in Europe and this
is just bullshit my guy
name every person in Europe then or else I’m assuming you’re making things up
wrong, guess again
We’re literally dumping decades old hardware on them just so we can keep justify buying more F-35s.
I agree.
And I’m fine with this.
We built those to fight evil Russians, they should get their chance.
At what point do you realize that you have transformed into the jingoistic goobers who were cheerleading the Iraq War during the W. years?
ah, there’s the fascist lurking within every liberal. you should follow your leader
Not that you have shame? But this post is literally about putin assassinating a citizen of his in cold blood with no trial alongside several other innocent bystanders.
And you tried to use the word fascist to someone on the internet.
The people that died were fascists and Mercs, why do you care how they died? Do you hate Russia or not? This was a truly successful denazification action if you wanna get silly with it.
“Evil Russians.” Jesus Christ. As if the West did not rehabilitate European fascists immediately after WW2 and end up on the side of imperialism in every conflict around the world for the rest of the century and beyond. Many of which they themselves instigated. Get a fucking grip.
You seem to have missed that whole ussr bit
Definitely did not miss that. Whatever you think about the USSR, you cannot, without grotesque distortions of history, say that they rehabilitated European fascism. They executed nazis while the western powers were giving them citizenship, jobs, money, and weapons. And if you think soviet efforts to support revolutionary movements around the globe were “imperialism,” I’m not sure what to tell you besides please read a book.
Look up the US attack on Grenada
Or the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
The US could never conquer Ottowa
No, because unlike Russia, Canadians have balls.
The enemy is both strong and weak at the same time. Russians are simultaneously cowardly, repulsive and primitive (and evil, according to you), while also being barely held at bay because their innate savage brutality lets them ignore casualties, but like in an evil way, not the good heroic way we ignore casulaties when we drive our tanks headfirst into minefields. Gotcha.
Russia is a pointless joke.
We feared them, that was wrong.
Now they’ve proven how weak they are.
Uh huh
You are right, I don’t have to.