I’m interested in your perspective regarding what these organisational efforts are missing.
Uhhh the fact that vegans consider bees thinking feeling individuals and no amount of brainwashing will make anyone this stupid?
As ML’s we are trying to convince people that the rich, who are leeching off of the peoples work, dont deserve the wealth they have (which is a very common sense position). Yet people do not want to side with us. Just imagine trying to get them to agree bees are individuals and that they matter.
Unfortunately for vegans there will be no organised effort to lead veganism to success until there is a way to create cheap meat/milk etc without killing animals for it. Organised effort doesnt mean a few thousand people in a community harrassing people or breaking into factories, it means a majority who will impose their will over a minority. In this case vegans fighting (over bees and cows mind you) normal people to take their rights to consume animal products which is a huge part of our nature.
This is what separates liberal thinking which believes that a few hundred vegans in a city are going to make a change with their individual efforts, with Marxist Leninist thinking which argues that for change to be made the majority must not only want change but also must be willing to fight over it to impose their will on the weaker minority.
Do you consider veganism an organised effort? Cuz i aint seeing any vegan org actually put a dent in the meat industry where i live. Boycot is not just pausing the consumption of meat there also needs to also be systemic effort.
Yeah the fact that its a boycot is the problem. Its liberal individualist thinking.
Same argument as before “I’m one person I can’t make a difference” - 1 billion people not making a difference
Oh god i thought this site was lib free but here we are. No i am not voting with my pocket. Yes i will not even be noticed it i were to boycot nor will the 60-70 muslim grammas ever change their mind even if the best vegan debatebro talked at them for hours
Also I already said that without an organised boycotting effort no change can be done. Veganism is not very organised. For example in my small (very conservative) city if I were to go vegan I’d be the only one. The suppliers would not notice me not eating a dozen eggs and a few kilos of chicken/meat every month.
My problem with this thinking is enough people need to be vegan in a given community for the killing of animals to be reduced. Until enough people become vegan the killed animals would go in the trash. (For example) I believe coffee harvesting is unethical but I still consume coffee because I know my boycott efforts wont even be noticed by the bourgeois let alone lead to less slavery. What I know will make a difference is a socialist revolution which will hopefully eventually put an end to slavery. As long as there is capitalism the meat industry will live on and so will the supposed meat eater propaganda.
I have had so many arguments where I argued a common sense point and a trot or other revisionist argued i was wrong until I quoted Lenin. They care more about whoever is saying it rather than the argument itself.
Imagine what could happen if more countries around the world had successful revolutions and freely traded with one another while less countries were enslaved by the US
Just got banned on reddit from a trot sub (didnt know they were trots) after reading trotskyist bs and replying to it (they accused me of sectarianism but not the trot i was responding to LMAO)
24·6 days ago
2·7 days ago
Uhhh the fact that vegans consider bees thinking feeling individuals and no amount of brainwashing will make anyone this stupid?
As ML’s we are trying to convince people that the rich, who are leeching off of the peoples work, dont deserve the wealth they have (which is a very common sense position). Yet people do not want to side with us. Just imagine trying to get them to agree bees are individuals and that they matter.
Unfortunately for vegans there will be no organised effort to lead veganism to success until there is a way to create cheap meat/milk etc without killing animals for it. Organised effort doesnt mean a few thousand people in a community harrassing people or breaking into factories, it means a majority who will impose their will over a minority. In this case vegans fighting (over bees and cows mind you) normal people to take their rights to consume animal products which is a huge part of our nature.
This is what separates liberal thinking which believes that a few hundred vegans in a city are going to make a change with their individual efforts, with Marxist Leninist thinking which argues that for change to be made the majority must not only want change but also must be willing to fight over it to impose their will on the weaker minority.