- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
The Danish health minister should “get on a plane and visit” some of the thousands of women thought to be living with the consequences of being forcibly fitted with the contraceptive coil as children, Greenland’s gender equality minister has said.
In an attempt to reduce the population of the former Danish colony, at least 4,500 women and girls are believed to have undergone the medical procedure, usually without their consent or knowledge, at the hands of Danish doctors between 1966 and 1970 alone.
The total number of those affected by the procedures, thought to have continued for decades, is understood to be far higher. Victims and their lawyers say generations of Inuit women were left traumatised and suffering reproductive complications, including infertility, as a result of the Danish state’s policy.
Earlier this month, a group of 143 women sued the Danish state over the alleged violations, but they have yet to receive a response from the government, despite the Danish prime minister visiting Greenland – now an autonomous territory of Denmark – soon after.
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This is such a horrible case and it’s disgusting that Greenland have had to open their own investigation of it while Denmark keeps ignoring it.
Large pieces of copper were forced into the bodies of children as young as 12 during “routine” medical exams at school. With disastrous effects.
For several decades, Lyberth repressed her trauma. “I think I was so ashamed that I didn’t want to remember or talk about it,” she says. But the consequences for her body soon became apparent – and lasting.
IUDs are normally effective for a period of up to ten years, after which they can cause complications such as infections and infertility. The ones forced upon young girls in Greenland were larger than modern devices.
“I had intense period pains, with enormous bleeding that forced me to stay at home,” she explains. It was only when she reached menopause, at around 50, that she realised the cause of her suffering.
“I started having circulation problems and ovarian cysts. I was in so much pain that the doctors were considering removing my uterus,” she says. “That’s when it all came back to me.”
a very white way of thinking
Can people nowadays state an opinion without being racist?
Other than that the story is horrible. It won’t fix the problem for many (most?) of them, but I hope they get as much money as they can by suing the government.
Pretty ironic though. That comment was in the context of talking about how easy it is for people to dismiss the abuse these Indigenous women went through.
Cue, an entire comment section that is mostly focussed on discussing whether white people feel attacked, than the decades of hell these women endured.
Which goes to show how you undermine your own important message if you lace it with your own racist language.
That’s one way to admit that some white people will put their delicate sensibilities over and above actual genocide.
And apparently also to show some people find it more important to include a stupid divisive sneer in their rhetoric rather than get their actual point across.
I think you’re right, but I think that undermining mostly happens because of skewed priorities.
I just want to know that I’m at least fucking safe in left-spaces. I expect right-wing spaces to denigrate me. They’re shitheads to begin with. But is it too much to ask that the issue of being part-white not lead into part of me being sneered at?
It’s tiring, man. I just want it to end.
White is not a race.
Then neither is black right? Race doesn’t actually exist of course, the only race is human. But we like to put people in boxes so we came up with the white race and the black race and so on. Because we’re all idiotic monkeys that love labels.
All races are a social construct. But the fact that race is a social construct doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and attitudes towards race doesn’t affect people.
I want to live in a world where no one sees race. But that’s not the world we live in. Pretending race doesn’t exist is just ignoring problems and allowing them to persist.
Your attitude that white is not a race is the same attitude of those that want to pretend that “not seeing race” is an enlightened way of thinking when really they just want to ignore issues.
Reverse racism is bullshit because “white” as a category is only exclusionary. It does not exist to acknowledge any culture or nationality. I am white but would lose nothing from my identity if the concept were abolished tomorrow.
It is a political category that exists purely to discriminate against those who fall outside of it. In that sense, this eugenics program was indeed “a very white way of thinking”.
You don’t have to identify with that if you’re white. You can reject the concept of race as being valid - it is unscientific and entirely socially constructed - whilst still recognising that racial categories and racism have real consqeuences and do real harm.
EDIT: I’m not interested in continuing to debate with people who have no interest in understanding. For anyone who actually cares to educate themselves, here is some information.
Dictionary definitions of racism aren’t enough, you need to actually study the subject. This is a decent article on the subject, which paraphrases my favourite saying on the matter, “noticing racism is not the real racism”: https://www.vu.edu.au/about-vu/news-events/news/what-is-reverse-racism-and-whats-wrong-with-the-term
And they reference this paper, which gives an academic definition of racism: Racism equals power plus prejudice: A social psychological equation for racial oppression.
Racism requires a power imbalance on a societal level. Without that, you can have prejudicial attitudes, but they don’t rise to the level of racism. As a white person, you can say whatever you want about white people to me and it doesn’t threaten me much, because white people are not oppressed in our society.
As a mixed-race individual, it’s not about whether race is a valid identifier in any objective sense or not. Our society still puts a great deal of emphasis on race regardless.
I wouldn’t consider my identity particularly ‘white’, but when that’s used to denigrate me, like I’m only part-valid? That feels like shit. Something between rage and absolute isolation.
Your point fails to recognize that the US isn’t the only country in the world. ‘black’ as a concept makes no sense on the global scale either and the internet does exist in other countries too.
European empires colonised the world centuries ago and invented the concept of race to justify why they were treating everyone else as sub-human. Britain exported that ideology to the US, and both of their empires, amongst many others, exported the concept globally. No continent on Earth was spared. I live in Australia and the Indigenous people here talk about “black fellas” and “white fellas” to describe their particular experience of racist oppression.
To claim “black” as a racist concept only exists in the US just proves that you don’t know very much about the topic.
As if european countries were the only others-invading empires. Spain was a colony of some muslim caliphate for centuries and the ottomen once made it all the way to the gates of vienna. And I didn’t say black only exists in the US, I said it doesn’t make sense outside of it. Your australia-natives anecdote onls slightly changes thats
…and? We’re talking about the roots of racism, not which empire was worse. The most recent imperial expansions were global and done by white people, which is why colourism works the way it does, globally. If some other group had done it, it might be different, but they didn’t, and it isn’t.
This is such a basic point, did you think you could actually distract me from it by talking about the Ottomans or whatever?
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Reverse racism is bullshit because “white” as a category is only exclusionary. It does not exist to acknowledge any culture or nationality. I am white but would lose nothing from my identity if the concept were abolished tomorrow.
That’s a nice point actually
I would be considered white now in the US, but 120 years ago, I wouldn’t have been.
And personally, I don’t identify one way or the other, because it’s not an aspect I measure people by.
There’s nothing reverse about it, it’s plain racism.
This is the definition:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
Except the minority everything checks out. Note the word “typically” when referring to minority.
Unless you want to change the definition of racism (which many of you fellas seem to want to), racism against white people is just racism, nothing “reverse” about it.
Where did you get that definition? What is the context? And even then, the point is not to find a dictionary definition but to understand what race is and what it means.
Dictionaries describe how words are used, they are not complete academic breakdowns of concepts. Yes, some people - like you - will call reverse racism actual racism, so the dictionary captures that usage, but even it acknowledges that that is atypical.
Once you understand that white is not truly a part of anyone’s identity but a political category that is imposed by a power structure, you can stop getting butthurt whenever anyone attacks the concept, because you’ll realise that you don’t have to take it personally.
Honestly it’s pretty insulting to the racism that non-white people face every single day to apply the same word to what white people deal with. It is not in any way equivalent.
I could take the time to paraphrase every sentence you used with black people, but I’m kinda tired today, so you just have to believe me it can be done.
But I’ll write this: You don’t get to decide what is and isn’t part of someone else’s identity. That’s called oppression, you know? The exact same thing that has been done to minorities over centuries and millennia. We have a name or two for that, one of those names is “racism”.
Goodbye.
White isn’t a race. White is a lack of pigmentation.
Is Black not a race, just the presence of pigmentation?
So is black, what’s your point?
Black is not a lack of pigmentation. If you believe that may I suggest heading back to Biology 101 for an upgrade course.
Yeah, let’s pretend that’s what I meant. You should feel proud.
Lol
Thank you for saying it. :)
Can people nowadays state an opinion without being racist?
Expressions like “a very white way of thinking” and “sounds about white” aren’t racist. They’re not about race at all, they’re about privilege.
It’s basically using “white” as a shorthand for “privileged people not aware of their own privilege or the challenges of others, many of whom are white”.
Other than that the story is horrible. It won’t fix the problem for many (most?) of them, but I hope they get as much money as they can by suing the government.
Speaking as a Dane, I agree almost 100%. Our government treated inuits absolutely atrociously in the bad old days and it’s caused immense harm. They deserve to get reparations without having to go through the hassle of a lawsuit first.
It’s basically using “white” as a shorthand for “privileged people not aware of their own privilege or the challenges of others, many of whom are white”.
So you could conceivably call someone who is Black but otherwise belonging to privileged groups ‘white’?
Check, please!
You could call out someone who is black but otherwise privileged for acting very white, yes.
Clarence Thomas comes to mind, for example.
White is when bad, and the more bad it is, the more white they are.
Great.
Nope, that’s not at all what I’m saying.
Because white people are inherently privileged and the most unaware privileged people are white, that’s the expression for acting oblivious to your own privilege and the obstacles and other hardships of people without your privilege.
Normal racists, they’re shitheads. Who the fuck gives a fuck about them. But people like you, joyfully, innocently, self-righteously denigrating people because of what race they are or partially are, because they’re ‘privileged’, and therefore who gives a shit about them? Immensely frustrating.
If you applied that kind of standard to literally any other fucking racial category and negative qualifier, you’d call it out as horrifically racist, and rightly so.
people like you, joyfully, innocently, self-righteously denigrating people because of what race they are or partially are
Nope. I have been abundantly clear from the start that it’s about the BEHAVIOR and LACK OF AWARENESS of some people, not the color of their skin.
because they’re ‘privileged’, and therefore who gives a shit about them
Another ridiculous strawman. I have pointed out that I myself am privileged. You might consider it unwarranted, given your ridiculous crusade to misrepresent everything I sa, but I very much DO give a shit about myself and many others who are privileged but aren’t asses about it.
Immensely frustrating.
Yes, your lack of comprehension and/or bad faith sure is.
If you applied that kind of standard to literally any other fucking racial category and negative qualifier, you’d call it out as horrifically racist, and rightly so.
Except I keep pointing out that I’m NOT talking about all white people. White people like myself didn’t CHOOSE to be born privileged, but we DO choose whether to acknowledge that privilege and the lack of privilege of others rather than throwing a tantrum about imagined racism.
Whate is not a race. It describes people of mostly European ancestry. So be specific.
It’s almost like white is literally different to all those other racial categories.
White is an exclusionary concept. If someone is half black, half asian or half hispanic, then they are typically treated by society as non-white unless they are white-passing, and even then their treatment will change as soon as their family is included in the picture. They are not considered non-black, non-asian or non-hispanic.
It’s easy to say that you would consider them half/half, but that’s just not what they experience in the world outside this comment thread, so it’s meaningless.
Oh, that’s nonsense. Sure, what might be underneath is about privilege, but, you know, being white myself I haven’t had much privilege. Because my family was on the extremely poor side of things.
Sure, being in Europe in itself is a privilege, but that goes for black/asian/other people living in Europe as well. Other than that, I’m as white as they come, but I didn’t have any privilege, except those I fought hard for. Turns out privilege doesn’t have much with skin color, but is caused by capital and money.
So, it’s the same as treating all black people as criminals, to dig out another stereotype. Sure, there are statistical reasons to say that (as are for the so-called white privilege), but it’s incredibly racist to treat black people as criminals by default (as is attributing shortcomings of the privileged to white people). Believe me, most white people I knew growing up weren’t what you’d call privileged.
I don’t think I ask for too much when I don’t want people to use my skin color to mean something bad, do I? Like, have we learned nothing? It’s frankly disgusting that racism against me is allowed because it’s socially acceptable. Racism against black people and Jewish people used to be socially acceptable, too. And I for one really dislike racism because it’s stupid and I don’t particularly care which group you’re being racist to.
To chronic downvoters: If you only downvote without providing your thoughts on the topic, your opinion on this topic is as important as my dog’s.
They deserve to get reparations without having to go through the hassle of a lawsuit first.
That would be nice, but what government wants to pay for their mistakes?
being white myself I haven’t had much privilege.
You’re still more privileged than you would be if you weren’t white. And I say that as someone who hasn’t had an easy life either, but would have a much harder one if I hadn’t been lucky enough to be born a cishet white male in a rich and somewhat well-functioning country.
being in Europe in itself is a privilege, but that goes for black/asian/other people living in Europe as well.
To a MUCH lesser degree, though. They experience hardships that we don’t because they don’t have our privilege of having the only skin color that isn’t discriminated against in Europe
I’m as white as they come, but I didn’t have any privilege
Again, not how it works. Having privilege isn’t a binary of either playing on easy mode with all privileges or not being privileged at all.
A rich and powerful person with the same skin color, gender, sexuality and nationality as me but no disabilities is MUCH more privileged than I am, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have any privilege.
except those I fought hard for
Again, having privilege ≠ everything being easy.
Turns out privilege doesn’t have much with skin color, but is caused by capital and money.
Again with the false dichotomy of everyone being either extremely privileged or not privileged at all 🤦
So, it’s the same as treating all black people as criminals
Whoa, wtf?? It absolutely is NOT! That’s a BIZARRE comparison!
Sure, there are statistical reasons to say that
From the cops who consistently target people of color more. Black people aren’t inherently more criminal than white people.
White people ARE inherently more privileged in a society built by their ancestors to give them advantages at the cost of disadvantages for everyone else, though.
it’s incredibly racist to treat black people as criminals by default
And the 2024 “Well, Duh!” Award goes to…
as is attributing shortcomings of the privileged to white people)
No. Absolutely not.
Believe me, most white people I knew growing up weren’t what you’d call privileged.
If I took a shot every time you trotted out that false dichotomy, I’d be absolutely wasted by now.
I don’t think I ask for too much when I don’t want people to use my skin color to mean something bad, do I
Like it or not, your skin color gives you privilege. If you acknowledge your privilege and don’t abuse it, “sounds about white” and similar expressions aren’t about you and you have nothing to worry about on that account.
Like, have we learned nothing?
I couldn’t say about everyone, but it sure seems that YOU haven’t.
It’s frankly disgusting that racism against me is allowed because it’s socially acceptable
Again, not racism. It’s not about all white people.
Racism against black people and Jewish people used to be socially acceptable, too.
Now you’re going to bring jewish people into your ridiculous false analogy too? Ffs! Are you trying to start the oppression Olympics or something?
Spoiler alert: we don’t medal in that sport.
And I for one really dislike racism because it’s stupid
So is pretending that calling out privilege and the lack of awareness thereof is racist.
To chronic downvoters: If you only downvote without providing your thoughts on the topic, your opinion on this topic is as important as my dog’s.
Sounds like your dog knows about as much about what privilege is or isn’t as you do. I bet your dog is much cuter too.
what government wants to pay for their mistakes?
The Danish one. Unlike certain other ones, it tends to be serious about dealing with its past atrocities and the effects they had on the victims.
So many words when you could just say “I’m racist” and get the same point across.
I can’t believe how many white people I see complaining about racism in a thread about Inuit people having forced infertility, ovarian cysts, bleeding, and more. This is pathetic lol. The most sensitive people in existence. Just acknowledging your privilege makes you all go into this weird state. This is why studying history and CRT is important. The Viking user is right. White is not a race, so they’re not being racist.
Who the fuck do you think I’m being racist towards? White people? I AM white people 🤦
Well, I’ve lost interest in a discussion with you, if you’re unable to discuss without saying stuff like
And the 2024 “Well, Duh!” Award goes to…, you’re not worth discussion.Edit: That was before I read the other personal jabs at me. Well, if you ever wonder why you can’t convince other people of your opinions, it’s this behaviour.
Sure, focus on how impolite it is for me to point out that you’re stating the blindingly obvious rather than at all consider my many valid counterpoints to your flurry of much more insulting accusations towards me and everyone else who use or even understand some very common expressions 🙄
I usually don’t reply to the following messages, but I’m gonna make an exception, because it might help you in the future: Yes, I’m gonna ignore all your other points, because I have no interest in a discussion with someone who makes personal attacks at me. I’ve had some thoughts prepared to write down and discuss further until I reached the point where you made personal attacks.
In short, you’re not worthy of my time - not because I disagree with your points, but because you had to go and make it personal.
Anyway, this was truly the last message from me to you.
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