• AutoTL;DRB
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    731 year ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    KYIV, Aug 11 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy broadened his battle against graft on Friday, firing all the heads of Ukraine’s regional army recruitment centres as the war with Russia enters a critical stage.

    Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.

    Ukraine has made cracking down on graft a priority as it fends off Russia’s full-scale invasion and seeks membership of the European Union and has fired or prosecuted a string of high-ranking officials implicated in sleaze.

    Zelenskiy said that any sacked army recruitment officers who are not being investigated should head to the front to fight for Ukraine “if they want to keep their epaulettes and prove their dignity”.

    Videos purporting to depict army recruiters aggressively pursuing or becoming violent with would-be draftees have gone viral on social media in the country, which has been under martial law since the invasion.

    Zelenskiy said top general Valery Zaluzhny would be responsible for implementing Friday’s decision and that new candidates for the posts would first be vetted by Ukraine’s domestic security service, the SBU.


    I’m a bot and I’m open source!

    • harc
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      831 year ago

      Misses important bit;

      “This system should be run by people who know exactly what war is and why cynicism and bribery during war is treason,” he said, adding that those fired would be replaced by recent veterans and soldiers wounded at the front.

      • @SheeEttin@lemmy.world
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        231 year ago

        those fired would be replaced by recent veterans and soldiers wounded at the front

        Somehow I’m not sure that they would be the most effective recruiters.

        • @mindlight@lemm.ee
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          431 year ago

          They’re not trying to sell a bright future like military recruiters in the US. People are forced to do their military service by law and the recruiters are responsible to match the drafted people with the role that fits best.

        • @Notyou@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          I beg to differ. The applicants talking to recent vets or wounded soldiers know that these people could be their future. It is important to know all the possible outcomes, including possible PSTD, death, or dismemberment. Having recruiters that are too disconnected from the human war cost is a disservice, in my opinion.

          I think I missed my point in there. They would be more effective when those new soldiers are on the frontline fighting, instead of selling a false image of how easy joining would be. That false sell would result in wasted resources training soldiers that wouldn’t be as effective. Sometimes it’s better to have less people in your unit, when the extra bodies (that were lied to) would cause more wasted time and energy. Time and energy that should be focused on war.

        • @gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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          01 year ago

          I doesn’t matter if the guy serving draft notices was wounded.

          I guess some of the lucky conscripts will try to run away and then it might matter.

  • ArxCyberwolf
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    1 year ago

    I knew from reading the headline that Hexbear’s horde of mouthbreathers would show up to brigade and spread their propaganda. Sure enough, here we are

    Edit: You guys really are just proving my point lmao

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]
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          691 year ago

          Then go make your own private instance where you can federate with whoever you want and keep the mean old tankies out

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]
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              611 year ago

              What mask? I’m an ML and have never claimed otherwise on this account or its alts on any instance.

              And being an ML isn’t against the rules, so don’t bog down our dear admins with superfluous reports.

            • KurtVonnegut [comrade/them]
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              381 year ago

              “Tankies are bad.”

              Do you believe that that because you genuinely believe that capitalist nations like the United States and Russia are doing good things for the world, while “tankie” countries like Cuba and China are doing bad things for the world? Or do you believe that because you have been tricked by 100 years of racist propaganda that says socialists like Fidel Castro, Albert Einstein, and Martin Luther King were subhuman scum?

              • @Gsus4@feddit.nl
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                1 year ago

                Known capitalist evil practices do not absolve tankies of wanting to impose communism by force.

                You use the term “racist propaganda” interchangeably as anti-socialist propaganda…as if the only victims of capitalism were the victims of racism.

                Who calls MLK and Einstein scum? Maybe Fidel was called that by right-wingers during the Cold War. Why did you mix and match those 3? Why not Emma Goldman or Gorbachev, if you’re just naming random socialists (I’m not even sure MLK ever explicitly considered himself a socialist).

                • KurtVonnegut [comrade/them]
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                  21 year ago

                  I’m not even sure MLK ever explicitly considered himself a socialist.

                  Well then.

                  “I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

                  “Today, capitalism has out-lived its usefulness.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

                  “Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

                  “We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

                  “The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

                  “If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God’s children to have the basic necessities of life, she too will go to hell.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

                  (from https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/01/21/11-most-anti-capitalist-quotes-martin-luther-king-jr)

                  It says a lot about the education system wherever you come from that you never learned MLK was a socialist. He HATED capitalism! Hated it! Also, the scientist Albert Einstein was a prominent socialist who wrote a famous article, “Why socialism?” explaining in detail why he was a socialist. Einstein and MLK believed in the same anti-capitalist struggle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F

              • @Lemminary@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                lmao How many times has that worked on anyone, honestly? Like I’m just gonna wake up one day and say, “yeah, you know what, my entire worldview has been shattered by @KurtVonnegut@hexbear.net whispering sweet commie propaganda in my ear”

                Idk why you are all on stuck on the tankie shit like it matters that much to me. Like I said previously, I don’t have a problem with the Christians for being Christian, but just like you tankies, the fandom is weird, intense and circlejerky af

                • KurtVonnegut [comrade/them]
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                  361 year ago

                  IDK man. You’re basically saying “Why are you stuck on that environmentalist shit? It doesn’t matter to me. Go worry about climate change somewhere else, stop bothering me.”

                  My brother in christ. Climate change will affect you whether you want it to or not. Capitalism will affect you whether you want it to or not. You can’t just be “out” of it. You can’t not take a side in whether the earth gets destroyed or not (environmentalism) or whether 90% of the world’s population is plunged into neo-feudal slavery. You’re either with the slave-owners or against them. You gotta pick a side!

        • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
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          501 year ago

          We were invited here by the Lemmy.ml mods on behalf of their community. If the majority of users on Lemmy.ml wanted us gone then the Mods wouldn’t have federated with us in the first place. Maybe you misread the community you joined 2 months ago? The mods of Lemmy.ml sure as heck didn’t misread hexbear before federating with us.

          • @Lemminary@lemmy.ml
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            -11 year ago

            on behalf of their community

            Oh sure 😂

            The mods of Lemmy.ml sure as heck didn’t misread hexbear before federating with us

            They sure as hell aren’t gonna misread the comment sections now

            • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
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              481 year ago

              What’s hilarious is that you think your mods are on your side in this fight. Why did you think they invited us here?

              You’ve been here for two months. You don’t know what the history of the website is. You don’t know the character of its administrators. I’ve got a secret for you: they’re leftists like us. In fact the whole lemmyverse was created by Marxist-Lenninists. This must be the very first time you’ve ventured out of your information bubble. Welcome. We’re going to bully the shit out of you until you can behave amicably. Did you think you could just show up to someone else’s community and start acting like you owned the place? There will be no eternal september here.

                • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
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                  1 year ago

                  Then fucking check yourself, liberal. When you abuse the word ‘genocide’ you diminish it. You are doing the work of the nazis in making what they did (and this is what the westerner thinks of when they use the word genocide) seem no worse than the things you apply the label to in your cynicism or ignorance. And this was their literal strategy. Google “the double holocaust myth”. When they were still in uniform they applied this strategy to the USSR (which could be one of the examples you’re vagueposting at me over). You will find, if you dig into that search, documentation by Jewish hate watch groups to that effect.

                  I fucking mind genocide denial as much as you pretend to. So knock it the fuck off.

                  And go fuck yourself for calling me that.

            • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
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              431 year ago

              Most people on lemmy came here because they didn’t like the way reddit was moderated. If you don’t like how Lemmy.ml s moderated you can go somewhere else like back to reddit or make your own instance. “Be the change you want to see in the world.” This is 100% a “you” problem and it is funny (in a sad sort of way) that you think otherwise.

              • @Lemminary@lemmy.ml
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                -51 year ago

                Most people on lemmy came here because they didn’t like the way reddit was moderated

                Duh, and somehow irrelevant, but nice try

                I’m not gonna let some scumbag tell me to leave. Federating with you all has made this site worse and we’ll see how well this goes. This is not a “me” problem, but a “you bunch of scumbags” problem.

                • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
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                  431 year ago

                  I’m not telling you to leave. I kinda like you. All I have to do is exist and you suffer. I don’t really care if you to suffer but it does validate my self worth that I can effect you so easily. Your stubbornness makes me like you more because you refuse to disengage from validating my ego.

                  My previous comment was just trying to be fair and explain why leaving Lemmy.ml was the only likely way to end your pain at having to hear opinions you don’t agree with but I guess I made it too complex. Enjoying your suffering is only fair if you are doing it of your own free will.

                  You also aren’t using the “you problem vs me problem” meme correctly. The idea is that a “you problem” is something that only inconveniences you and and thus you are the one who has to fix it. We “bunch of scumbags” are actually quite happy with how things are going and as such wont be trying to change anything. And I as I was trying to explain I doubt anyone else (AKA moderators) is going to come fix things for you.

                  I hope you continue to spend lots of time on Lemmy.ml (you know the M L stands for Marx and Lenin right?) We hexagonal ursines will enjoy our time visiting here.

                • Flaps [he/him]
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                  211 year ago

                  When everyone you meet is a scumbag, maybe it’s not us, maybe it’s you?

    • Awoo [she/her]
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      641 year ago

      Brigading is whenever a Hexbear user uses the site like literally everybody else that got here.

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]
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      571 year ago

      federation isn’t brigading. a post shows up in our feeds, we click on it and comment because helping people dodge the draft is cool and good. We’re one of the largest instances, and the consensus we have on issues like “conscription is bad” should not be taken as coordination on the part of hexbear users. If we did deliberately coordinate we’d all link you clowns to the thread where we did it because it would be funny.

      • @tellah@sh.itjust.works
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        131 year ago

        No but it’s weird that I never see any comments supporting Ukraine from hexbear users. Like the country was invaded, there is evidence of massive human rights atrocities. It is beyond the pale that so many people would just coincidentally celebrate every piece of bad news for the people being invaded and spin everything negatively against them. One would expect some diversity of opinions from any reasonably large instance but hexbear users all act like pro-russian trolls.

    • Krause [he/him]
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      1 year ago

      Propaganda is when you say the same thing Reuters, CNN, WSJ, etc are all saying about draft corruption in Ukraine lol

    • UlyssesT [he/him]
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      551 year ago

      Hexbear’s horde of mouthbreathers

      Main Character Syndrome is symptomatic of lib-brain. SAD! trump-drenched

        • TomBombadil [he/him]
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          411 year ago

          Trump is funny. Obviously. Terrible but hilarious. We don’t back Russia we just understand NATO to generally be far more destructive and deadly. That’s just old Tom Bombadilaros thoughts.

          • @Revanee@lemmy.one
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            41 year ago

            That’s so dumb… To consider a defensive alliance more destructive and deadly that a corrupt state waging a war of expansion

            • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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              1 year ago

              Defensive alliance that bombs every third world country that dares to go against the interests of the imperial core? Who are they "defending again?

              us-foreign-policy

              Also how much has NATO expanded since the end of the cold war with its mafia protection racket style tactics in Europe?

            • Mardoniush [she/her]
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              301 year ago

              “That’s so dumb, to consider a defensive alliance with the Serbian Black Hand more destructive and deadly than the Central Power’s Imperialism waging a war of expansion” -Average Allied Nations Second International Member, 1914

            • Krause [he/him]
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              1 year ago

              defensive alliance

              NATO is defensive? lol, lmao

              a corrupt state

              That’s Ukraine, it used to be considered the most corrupt place in Europe by the Western media right until February 2022

              waging a war of expansion

              That’s also Ukraine since they’re trying to take territory from the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics after they declared independence following the coup against Viktor Yanukovych in 2014

          • @FaeDrifter@midwest.social
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            -11 year ago

            Russia - starts wars and threatens nuclear holocaust - you sleep

            NATO - literally just exists - you wake

            Russia’s #1 export is troll farms and that’s why Russia is the most hated country in the world. Y’all just give people more reason to hate Russia.

            • egg1918 [she/her]
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              1 year ago

              NATO - literally just exists - you wake

              How many millions of civilians were murdered/killed/starved/driven from their homes/displaced by American and NATO led imperialist wars such as the bombing of Yugoslavia, the invasion of Afghanistan, the bombing of Libya, or Isr*el’s genocidal occupation of Palestine, which is proudly supported by the US and NATO?

                • autismdragon [he/him, comrade/them]
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                  You honestly think less civilians were killed in all those things COMBINED than by Russia? Really? That’s actually one of the most wild liberal claims I’ve ever seen, and thats saying something. You’ve lost attachment to reality.

                • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]
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                  1 year ago

                  You ignorant gnome. We hate Russsia more than you. Russia is the liberal democratic nation built by the US from the corpse of our comunist forebears. I’d ask if you ever read a history book but your Midwest tag proves the only ones you got were written by Haliburton so it isn’t your fault you are the way you are. If I wver visit your region I must try to trap you I in a circle of salt and force you to actually read some theory.

            • Riffraffintheroom [none/use name]
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              201 year ago

              Literally just existing, chilling, sprinkling unexploded cluster bombs throughout the country side for Ukrainian children to step on for generations to come, vibing.

        • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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          331 year ago

          We also use Hillary Clinton and Biden memes, doesn’t mean we support them lmao.

          Ever heard of this thing called “irony”? Might be worth checking out

        • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]
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          291 year ago

          Because Russia is the same as America in pretty much every way. So it is fascist infighting. Trump is also the same as pretty much the same as every other president. Liberals just hate him for idiosyncratic reasons. So it is funny

          • @FaeDrifter@midwest.social
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            01 year ago

            Russia is America’s every bad quality dialed up to 12 on steroids. Russia actually manages to make America look good, that’s just what a steaming pile of garbage Russia is. The bar is so low even America can get over it.

            • charlie [they/them, comrade/them]
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              141 year ago

              NATO - starts wars and keeps the meat grinder rolling all in the furtherance of capitalist dogma - you sleep

              Russia - literally just exists - you wake

              NATO’s #1 export is war and that’s why NATO is hated around the world. Y’all just give people more reason to hate NATO.

              • @FaeDrifter@midwest.social
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                01 year ago

                Russia starting a war with 350,000 casualties and threatening to nuke the West is not literally just existing. If Russia wanted to literally just exist, they never would have literally invaded another country while lying about “training exercises”.

                You’re pro-Russian terrorism, it’s not a good look.

                • charlie [they/them, comrade/them]
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                  101 year ago

                  NATO encircled a world power and for the last couple decades have worked to instigate a war that has led to the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people on the gamble that Russia would fall and allow the west to loot the country, exactly as they plan to loot a war torn Ukraine. For capitalism.

                  You’re pro-NATO terrorism, it’s not a good look.

    • ahshidahfuck [none/use name]
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      501 year ago

      Idk if “commenting on a post from another instance that showed up in my feed because the instance I use is federated with that instance” is brigading.

      • Grimble [he/him,they/them]
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        1 year ago

        No you dont understand, if I dont want you here then youre a PEST whose ATTACKING ME so you need to leave, mkay? maybe-later-kiddo

    • Onimasta [any]
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      Oh man, that brings me back to the days when r/cth used to brigade other subs. Those were the times.

      Never thought I’d live long enough to see it again…

      • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
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        411 year ago

        The best part was that it was always just the fact we were all terminally online and saw the same frontpage threads as everyone else. It was (almost) never an actual brigade, just the result of having a bunch of very active posters with better politics than the average redditor. That’s all it took to make the worst people on reddit pit over being unable to consistently silence people with better opinions than their own.

      • ElHexo [comrade/them]
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        451 year ago

        Hexbear is a lemmy instance about the intersection of media, PR, and power, hosted by Nima Shirazi and Adam Johnson.

          • ArxCyberwolf
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            -11 year ago

            They only were recently federated, and got defederated from some large instances like lemmy.world for their explicit intent to brigade other instances and communities to spread their “anti-liberal” nonsense.

        • @maxcorbetti@lemmy.ml
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          -61 year ago

          Crying about “tankies” is just calling everything “woke” with extra steps. Not everyone there automatically supports NATO/Ukraine but it’s far from what you describe.

          • @Hubi@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            There are still significant numbers of people denying the genocide currently happening and actively rooting for the invaders, which is why I pointed it out. There’s a reason they have been defederated by so many large instances. This has nothing to do at all with anything “woke” and I don’t see why you’d even bring it up.

            Edit: I just had a look at their frontpage and the first post there is about how the “western MSM” lied about the counteroffensive and how “Stalin shouldn’t have stopped at Berlin”. Yeah, alright. lmao

            • @maxcorbetti@lemmy.ml
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              Republican: “Everything to the left of me is woke.”

              Republican pretending to be liberal online: “Everything to the left of me is tankie.”

              At the end of the day it’s a word that can mean anything you want, and is only useful as a tactic to divide resistance against right wingers.

    • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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      If you’re so eager to defend a military conscription/draft, why don’t you go and fight on the frontline yourself? This whole article is about Zelenskyy cracking down on Ukrainian citizens avoiding the conscription because they don’t want to be sent into the meat grinder that is the heavily fortified front lines.

      It’s always those that face the least consequences from war that are the most eager for it to continue.

    • @Murvel@lemm.ee
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      71 year ago

      I’ve been interacting with them recently to see what they are all about and lmao I don’t think I’ve ever had a dumber discussion in my life. Truly they are uniquely stupid.

    • UFO
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      41 year ago

      My cats have learned the wirr motor sound of the feeder means food. So they’ll run from whereever in the house at an motor sound. Suddenly like “it’s food time right? Right? But the noise means food…” Regardless of any further context.

      Same same but different with hexbear.

  • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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    1 year ago

    That’s not a good sign for Ukraine in what is an attrition war. Even their own military is making plans to smuggle their men out if the country because they don’t want to send them to the death trap that is the heavily reinforced WW1 like frontlines. And Zelensky’s response is just to fire and try replace the people doing that, instead of looking as to why that is happening. If the counter offensive tactics are so dire that your own military is doing corruption to avoid sending men to the front, maybe that needs reassessment.

    Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.

    • I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, and I’m certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.

      I’ve been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I’ve seen little to indicate that he’s anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader – I like the guy, and I’m inclined to trust his judgement. He’s done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

      Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don’t.

      • SoyViking [he/him]
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        581 year ago

        Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

        I agree with this sentence but I think we have very different ideas of what the “ethical ideals of the EU” are.

          • DankXiaobong [comrade/them]
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            51 year ago

            Article 2 - Right to life

            1. Everyone has the right to life

            Except those Russian orcs

            1. No one shall be condemned to the death penalty, or executed.

            Sending conscripts to into the front lines instead of seeking a diplomatic solution is quite literally a death penalty

      • macabrett [comrade/them, any]
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        521 year ago

        Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

        Doesn’t seem very ethical to me to ban your opposition parties for being left wing.

      • Sasuke [comrade/them]
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        511 year ago

        if you ukraine were to win the war (and they won’t) whatever remains of their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts. a lot of the ‘aid’ they’ve received—from the ‘highly ethical’ EU among others—consists of loans that are to be paid back in full and with interest.

        and we already know what the cost of these foreign ‘‘aid’’ packages are; privatization (already well under way—ukraine even has their own website); austerity; lower wages; poorer working condition; a crackdown on labor rights and organizing (like banning left-wing parties in your country, which zelensky has already done), etc.

        • NoGodsNoMasters [they/them, she/her]
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          1 year ago

          their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts.

          But Zelenskyy told me that Ukraine was going to reach a 1 trillion GDP in 10 years by deregulating, selling off public assets, and reforming social programmes. Are you really suggesting he would lie like that?

          • Bnova [he/him]
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            71 year ago

            GDP is just a measurement of money exchanging hands, so I don’t doubt that Zelensky, a man in the Pandora papers for money laundering could figure out a way to get their GDP to a trillion.

      • Awoo [she/her]
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        1 year ago

        has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades

        Zelensky was literally in the Pandora Papers lmao

      • spectre [he/him]
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        371 year ago

        You don’t see his pandering to the EU as stumbling backwards into this whole situation in the first place?

        I understand that it comes across as provocative, but from what I understand about his (attempted) maneuvering over the past couple years, he’s kind of a spineless and weak leader who trusted the wrong side and got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.

        NATO and the US are not trustworthy allies, and they let him talk up "Ukraine joining NATO ", a very dangerous thing to do, but I don’t believe they had any intention of letting them in at any point. Zelensky should have understood this.

        • got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.

          Russia already invaded ukraine and took control of crimea 5 years before Zelensky became president.

          To view this invasion as totally separate and then blame Zelensky for getting invaded is kinda insane to me.

      • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
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        341 year ago

        I’ve seen little to indicate that he’s anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader

        Zelenski is a trained actor.

        Did you see any signs Jack Gleeson wasn’t a petty psychotic little shit in Game of thrones? He’s actually a pretty cool guy in real life.

        • Are you comparing a fictional character in a fictional story to a person performing IRL? You’re judging his performance in this crisis by hia previous career? Which careers pass your “ok to be voted into presidency” test?

          • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
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            191 year ago

            No. I am comparing an actor playing a part to an actor playing a part.

            Which careers pass your “ok to be voted into presidency” test?

            Career doesn’t matter. Its who holds their purse strings that matters. Same man who paid Zelensky the actor, paid for Zelensky the president’s campaign. (and also funded neo-nazi paramilitary groups) Same boss. Just a bigger billing. Same job different character.

      • FakeNewsForDogs [he/him]
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        311 year ago

        Ukraine is fucked. As others have pointed out, western vultures are already carving it up via mass privatization (though they may be disappointed with what’s left when the war is over). The “counteroffensive” went nowhere and whether Russia marches all the way to Odessa is really just a question of if they want to at this point. The war was lost before it started and Ukraine will be lucky if it doesn’t get annexed to pieces by Poland et al in the coming months. Best case it keeps some manner of territorial integrity and limps along as a failed state. Not sure Zelensky deserves all the blame for this disaster, as the wheels were in motion at least as early as 2014, but they definitely bet on the wrong horse here.

      • Sinister [none/use name, comrade/them]B
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        271 year ago

        A question, do you truly think the Netherlands or Denmark would honestly let Ukraine join the EU? When they are already moaning about Romania and Bulgaria? Its a pipedream to sell Ukrainians on copium.

        • 7bicycles [he/him]
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          211 year ago

          The people moaning about people from Romania and Bulgaria are neither the ones profiting from their cheap labour here nor are they who calls the shots on the matter

        • I don’t know. The EU has been having a bit of a crisis, with candidates from several member states floating the idea of their own Brexits, financial struggles, and bad faith actors. I would hope that if Ukraine met the conditions for membership, then yes. It had been doing pretty well, financially and rule-of-law -wise; maybe not perfect, but steadily improving.

          I was surprised by Trump, by Brexit, by the political successes of far-right politicians (Rachele Mussolonis) across Europe. I have no idea which way any of these countries will break.

      • @barsoap@lemm.ee
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        61 year ago

        Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship

        Yes and no. His poll numbers surged from about 30% to 88% after the invasion but Ukrainians want a EU path and Dictator Zelenzkyy would be in the way of that. He could certainly win another term in a landslide and do a de Gaulle but I kinda doubt he’s even interested in that, he certainly wasn’t terribly ecstatic about it before the war and with how things are looking martial law is going to continue past the election date, that is, there’s going to be no elections. Meaning that at the end of it all there’s going to be a Zelenskyy who’s first going to take a vacation, and then do another season of servant of the people. Opening scene: Goloborodko wins the elections against the incumbent, a comedian who saved the nation from calamity due to sheer stupid luck (something about an asteroid if I remember my season 1 right). Finally, someone with proper qualifications in office again, a history teacher!

        • ElHexo [comrade/them]
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          1 year ago

          I agree, I don’t think it’s particularly noteworthy except for the fact it was all regional recruitment chiefs at once.

          This suggests either a high level of corruption (I don’t think it would be more than other places in the conditions) or a power play between elites in the military.

          Alternatively their allies have told them to do so.

  • Fuckass [none/use name]
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    271 year ago

    Got laid off because I didn’t beat up and kidnap enough young men off the streets and send them to boot camp

  • egg1918 [she/her]
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    201 year ago

    I hope to God they get sent to the very fucking front. Every last one of them. It made me sick watching videos of these cowards kidnapping men on the streets, beating the shit out of them, then forcing them into the army while taking bribes from rich people to leave them alone. Then to watch videos of those brand new recruits getting obliterated in bradleys and MRAPS by artillery.

    I seriously hope each of these fucking murderers steps on a land mine or gets their air and life ripped out of their lungs by a thermobaric rocket.

  • puff [comrade/them]
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    121 year ago

    No you don’t understand this actually means they’re winning even harder putler St Petersburg slava unazi

    • @tvbusy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      881 year ago

      Making education so expensive that the only way for some to pursue education is to die for their country is a crime. If majority of your citizen view being part of army is only for poor people, your country does not deserve to be protected because obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.

    • @maporita@unilem.org
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      401 year ago

      I have the opposite view. A country at war should have the draft, and there should be no exceptions, so that the politicians who send other people’s children off to fight also have to send their own.

      Most soldiers in a “professional” army are there because their families are poor and they have few other options to make a living.

      • @Echinoderm@aussie.zone
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        141 year ago

        There will always be exceptions, for example for disabilities or medical conditions. Most of those exceptions will be more accessible to wealthy or influential families that can afford to pay off doctors than poorer families.

      • GodlessCommie
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        11 year ago

        Politicians didn’t send their own children when there was a draft in the US. Trump AND Biden are evidence of this

        • @maporita@unilem.org
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          21 year ago

          Trump and Biden both avoided the draft with “1-Y” (medical) exemption. Keep in mind that more than half the 27 million eligible males were exempted or disqualified for some reason, so it’s not as if this was something only politicians did.

          • GodlessCommie
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            -11 year ago

            I would wager there was a higher percentage of the wealthy that somehow got an exemption

      • @Mic_Check_One_Two@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        Make declaration of war a mandatory vote for every citizen. Anyone who votes “yes” (or illegally abstains) gets registered for the draft. Anyone who votes “no” is unregistered.

        I know it’s not really feasible because governments need to be able to react swiftly in times of war. But these days with computers and cell phones, there’s very little reason that the government couldn’t push a “go download our secure voting app/visit this link to cast your vote” notification via the emergency alert broadcasting system.

        • Endorkend
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          161 year ago

          Ukraine didn’t decide to go to war.

          They were invaded.

        • @lukzak@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          How do you reckon it would work when it comes to age? Is the vote limited just to people of military age? Does this mean that whether or not to declare war effectively falls in the hands of ~18 - 30 year olds?

          Or is it open to everyone and even some old warhawk could be drafted? Are handicapped people not allowed to vote? Women that don’t meet combat standards?

          There is always the option to draft them into some sort of non-combat role. But if you knew you were only going for a non-combat role, it could be a lot easier to vote “yes”.

    • StalinForTime [comrade/them]
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      321 year ago

      I’m not sure there are no situations in which draft’s are permissible. If we were in a socialist society and a fascist government invades and I were Commissar of War you bet your ass the ex-bourgeois are getting drafted.

      • spectre [he/him]
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        301 year ago

        I see your point, but that’s a topic that should be up for discussion among your hypothetical Party/legislature. I don’t think it has a clear answer.

        • StalinForTime [comrade/them]
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          41 year ago

          100% agree. Me presenting it as a choice by a single Commissar for War is more tongue-in-cheek. The answer whether or we should do it is contextual but my point is that there are clear cases which I can imagine in which drafting would be clearly justified, even if of only certain groups.

          But responding to a question of whether or not we should do something by saying it would be decided democratically is evading the actual question of what you would put forward or support as appropriate policy in such a scenario. If everyone one responded that way then nothing would be decided.

      • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
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        111 year ago

        In this hypothetical wouldn’t the boogies and Kulacks would be in Gulags already? A bunch would be willing to sign on if it meant they might get an early release after the war. No draft necessary.

        • StalinForTime [comrade/them]
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          41 year ago

          I’m really not convinced that they would normally prefer to fight fascists on the front lines than to stay in a gulag, uncomfortable as the latter might be.

    • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
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      211 year ago

      draft is precisly because of that necessary , its put a general price on “Imperial adventure” while proffessional army will recruit itself from the lower classes and can be spend easly (they choose soo ) , its a bad as its forces the underprivledge to die for an empire whos fruits the privledge eat , while avoiding the blood…

        • marx_mentat [he/him, comrade/them]
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          1 year ago

          Volunteer service means wars are waged outside of public consciousness now. The Afghanistan war went on for 20 years and was essentially invisible to most people in the US. The Fed openly trying to increase unemployment is at least partially motivated by the military recruitment issues going on right now. Volunteer wars are fueled by the lives of desperate poor people.

    • flipht
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      161 year ago

      Lack of a draft is almost directly and solely responsible for the current quagmire of the US military - when we had a draft, normal people were pulled and had to serve with other normal people. They had real lives to go back to. They had family and friends who would listen to them and write their representatives to complain if the use of those human resources was inappropriate. Seeing body bags flying home and a televised razing of a foreign jungle turned a lot of people off from war. And they made their voices heard.

      Now, the only people being asked to pay attention are career military professionals. They often do not have a job or life outside of the military to tie them to normal life. They’ve also gotten smarter about where they fly corpses in, so the news can’t provide a solid day-by-day count of the wasted lives. These folks aren’t pushing back against the worst excesses of the military, because their college benefit or their pension require them to shut up and just do what they’re told.

      There’s a great documentary called Sir! No, Sir! about the vibrant protest movement from within the military, driven mostly by draftees during Vietnam.

      I don’t disagree with your initial reasoning, but there’s a different take that says that what we have allowed is for the worst of us to control the policy for all of us, with nearly no external oversight.

      • @bouh@lemmy.world
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        11 year ago

        This is a difficult problem to solve for a society though. The army is needed, because it’s what allows your country to exist. In time of peace, draft is really not optimal, because people are taken a year of their life for absolutely nothing. But the army need to keep its structure alive and functioning, or there’ll be nothing when it’s needed.

        The army of professionals is a good solution, and they do a hard job to keep an important piece of the state alive when no one cares about it.

        Ultimately I think it’s better if poor people make the core of the army because it means ultimately the safety of the nation is in their hands. Still, culture of the military men should be better taken care of, and elitism of the command structure should be fought.

    • bane_killgrind
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      51 year ago

      Being in a country with a very high population means you have the privilege of enough volunteers to protect your borders.

    • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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      -141 year ago

      I would be more likely to go the other way starship troopers style only those with the character to defend their country should have the right to vote in that country. Those leeching off the system and letting others doing the difficult things shouldn’t be rewarded

      • somename [she/her]
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        591 year ago

        A bit fascist to assume that the only way to contribute to society is military service.

            • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              First thing was that no draft is stupid and even something like starship troopers needing to serve the country in some way to be worth of a vote isn’t the worst idea in the world so it’s better than that. You don’t think there is anything at all in having some means of people that are willing to do more for their country be it military or otherwise should have more of a vote than those that do nothing and would leave it the second it isn’t doing enough for them? Some people want to make their country and the world a better place, why should they get less than someone that does nothing.

              I’m not arguing that Turing should have been on the front line or that the Bevin Boys weren’t serving their country and willing to do everything possible to help their country and should have equality. Just those trying to escape when things go bad shouldn’t have the same rights when things go well off the backs of others.

              • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
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                491 year ago

                Dude “You should have to provide service to the abstract idea that is ‘the nation’ in order to get your human rights” is just fascism, no matter how you try to spin it.

                • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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                  -11 year ago

                  To be protected by that country yes.

                  See how long you get to have your rights when you stop paying taxes or ignore the laws of the state

              • Kuori [she/her]
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                341 year ago

                starship troopers the movie was a literal send-up of fascism and you are sitting here arguing that we should do fascism so absurd it is the realm of actual parody

                or you’re advocating for the book’s straight up fascism. either way, you should eat a bullet, nazi.

      • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
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        1 year ago

        If you hate people leeching off the government, just wait until you hear about every single CEO and “Captain of Industry”.

        • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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          01 year ago

          I was on about the book.

          The film is great but philosophically it’s a shadow of the book.

        • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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          -21 year ago

          Obviously not read starship troopers thet make it very clear that anyone can serve and will be accommodated. And they make it very clear that being in the military isn’t the only way to serve.

          It’s just above providing for your country and earning the right to vote.

          • @AnarchoYeasty@beehaw.org
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            41 year ago

            Oh well if starship fucking troopers says it. You do realize that’s satire right. Jesus fuck you fascists are so fucking oblivious it isn’t funny.