They are not afraid of the outcomes mate. They are controlling the outcomes. This is the disconnect we have. You think the democracy is still functioning in some way. It is not. And it has not ever functioned as a democracy for anyone but the rich. The only purpose electoral politics at this point is in delaying. Which I support.
You admit to all of the means in which those with power control the outcomes of elections. But somehow think that that can be overcome solely by working within the system that they control.
Fascist don’t suddenly go “aw, gee, we tried to rig the election with intimidation and gerrymandering. But we still lost. Golly gee, I guess we’ll just give up power”. No, they continue breaking the rules and lying.
You’re asking for a party in power that isn’t playing by the rules to give up power after somehow losing in their rigged electoral process? Again, delay within that system is still meaningful. But it’s just that. Delay.
No, this has never been a conversation about random acts of violence against ICE. I’ve literally said that several times over. It is about protecting and defending people that are being killed and disappeared right now. It’s a conversation about “remain nonviolent” people like yourselves that, I assume, do not actually go out in the streets (maybe you show up on “no kings” days).
It is about organizing and training groups to defend themselves. Not encouraging passively accepting the violence they experience. Which is why someone like you changed the conversation to electoral politics in the first place. You don’t experience the violence first hand and so are not forced to step outside of that system. You have hope that that system will protect you, or at the very least, not hurt you.
I think people like you instantly think someone is talking about a group of masked vigilantes with AKs as the only means of resistance. I suggest you read up on the tactics of community defense employed by groups like the Black Panther Party. Which is what I mentioned in my very first comment.
You sure love to type which is a shame because you don’t seem to want to say much. Almost none of this relates in any way to this conversation at all. I never claimed that electoral politics will save us, but it’s also not irrelevant. I never claimed that Trump “can be overcome solely by working within the system” and, in fact, I listed several suggestions that were explicitly outside the system. I never suggested asking “a party in power that isn’t playing by the rules to give up power”, but I’m not going to abandon the electoral battlefield either when public opinion is strongly in our favor and growing.
It’s a conversation about “remain nonviolent” people like yourselves that, I assume, do not actually go out in the streets (maybe you show up on “no kings” days).
Who the fuck are you to be saying this? To this point, there is fucking nobody out there mounting a violent resistance. I don’t have to assume that you aren’t acting on your stated convictions because it’s a damn fact. Meanwhile, there are a ton of us out there protesting regularly, for “No Kings” and otherwise. What a fucking hypocrite you are Mr Black Panther tough guy.
You see, if you came back and said. "Nope, I work with PSL or I’m working with DSA, or I’m working with <mutual aid> group ". Then id respect that.
But you didn’t. You got defensive towards me assuming your inaction outside of hoping for an outcome in electoral politics. Couldn’t list one thing you’re actually doing outside of ranting on Lemmy.
No one actively touching grass would be so offended by that. They’d point to the things they are helping with. It’s clear you’re not doing anything and it’s clear you’re trying to convince yourself more than me that that is the correct course of action.
For your information I’ve suffered from a persistent sinus migraine headache for the past 12 years that limits my ability to engage as much as I would like. Even so, I’ve been out to protest ICE facilities seven times. I also donate what I can, even though I can’t hold down a job. I’d love to be involved in organizing and canvassing, but since I barely sleep I hardly have the temperament for either. And no, I don’t get out and touch grass very much, since the light and pollin make everything worse.
Is that sufficient for you? Am I required to do more to earn your approval? Fuck you.
So, maybe don’t talk about shit you’re not capable of experiencing? Idk. I didn’t give you chronic migraines mate. Sounds like we finally hit the soft spot to recognize you have no clue what you’re even talking about.
I’m sure it’s a long line. The fuck you wasn’t for the migraines, it was for your presumption. I haven’t heard you say shit about what you do or don’t do, and I didn’t ask because it’s irrelevant. You can’t argue your point, so you went for the ad hominem. I could be a complete shut in, or I could be out in the streets daily and it would have no impact on whether ICE has more bullets than the DSA.
You’re making this all about yourself and this conversation is exhausting. If you want to know about what organizations I work with you can read my comment history.
You made it about me. That’s what an ad hominem is. I don’t care what organizations you work with which is why I just said that. Yes, this conversation is exhausting.
They are not afraid of the outcomes mate. They are controlling the outcomes. This is the disconnect we have. You think the democracy is still functioning in some way. It is not. And it has not ever functioned as a democracy for anyone but the rich. The only purpose electoral politics at this point is in delaying. Which I support.
You admit to all of the means in which those with power control the outcomes of elections. But somehow think that that can be overcome solely by working within the system that they control.
Fascist don’t suddenly go “aw, gee, we tried to rig the election with intimidation and gerrymandering. But we still lost. Golly gee, I guess we’ll just give up power”. No, they continue breaking the rules and lying.
You’re asking for a party in power that isn’t playing by the rules to give up power after somehow losing in their rigged electoral process? Again, delay within that system is still meaningful. But it’s just that. Delay.
No, this has never been a conversation about random acts of violence against ICE. I’ve literally said that several times over. It is about protecting and defending people that are being killed and disappeared right now. It’s a conversation about “remain nonviolent” people like yourselves that, I assume, do not actually go out in the streets (maybe you show up on “no kings” days).
It is about organizing and training groups to defend themselves. Not encouraging passively accepting the violence they experience. Which is why someone like you changed the conversation to electoral politics in the first place. You don’t experience the violence first hand and so are not forced to step outside of that system. You have hope that that system will protect you, or at the very least, not hurt you.
I think people like you instantly think someone is talking about a group of masked vigilantes with AKs as the only means of resistance. I suggest you read up on the tactics of community defense employed by groups like the Black Panther Party. Which is what I mentioned in my very first comment.
You sure love to type which is a shame because you don’t seem to want to say much. Almost none of this relates in any way to this conversation at all. I never claimed that electoral politics will save us, but it’s also not irrelevant. I never claimed that Trump “can be overcome solely by working within the system” and, in fact, I listed several suggestions that were explicitly outside the system. I never suggested asking “a party in power that isn’t playing by the rules to give up power”, but I’m not going to abandon the electoral battlefield either when public opinion is strongly in our favor and growing.
Who the fuck are you to be saying this? To this point, there is fucking nobody out there mounting a violent resistance. I don’t have to assume that you aren’t acting on your stated convictions because it’s a damn fact. Meanwhile, there are a ton of us out there protesting regularly, for “No Kings” and otherwise. What a fucking hypocrite you are Mr Black Panther tough guy.
You see, if you came back and said. "Nope, I work with PSL or I’m working with DSA, or I’m working with <mutual aid> group ". Then id respect that.
But you didn’t. You got defensive towards me assuming your inaction outside of hoping for an outcome in electoral politics. Couldn’t list one thing you’re actually doing outside of ranting on Lemmy.
No one actively touching grass would be so offended by that. They’d point to the things they are helping with. It’s clear you’re not doing anything and it’s clear you’re trying to convince yourself more than me that that is the correct course of action.
For your information I’ve suffered from a persistent sinus migraine headache for the past 12 years that limits my ability to engage as much as I would like. Even so, I’ve been out to protest ICE facilities seven times. I also donate what I can, even though I can’t hold down a job. I’d love to be involved in organizing and canvassing, but since I barely sleep I hardly have the temperament for either. And no, I don’t get out and touch grass very much, since the light and pollin make everything worse.
Is that sufficient for you? Am I required to do more to earn your approval? Fuck you.
So, maybe don’t talk about shit you’re not capable of experiencing? Idk. I didn’t give you chronic migraines mate. Sounds like we finally hit the soft spot to recognize you have no clue what you’re even talking about.
Fuck me? Get in line.
I’m sure it’s a long line. The fuck you wasn’t for the migraines, it was for your presumption. I haven’t heard you say shit about what you do or don’t do, and I didn’t ask because it’s irrelevant. You can’t argue your point, so you went for the ad hominem. I could be a complete shut in, or I could be out in the streets daily and it would have no impact on whether ICE has more bullets than the DSA.
You’re making this all about yourself and this conversation is exhausting. If you want to know about what organizations I work with you can read my comment history.
You made it about me. That’s what an ad hominem is. I don’t care what organizations you work with which is why I just said that. Yes, this conversation is exhausting.