I enjoy both turn-based and action combat. I like how turn-based combat allows for some strategies without being overly complex like in most TRPG.
I was a big fan of Final Fantasy 7 OG, but I can’t get into FF7 remake mainly because of the hybrid combat. I would rather have it turn-based like in the original.
Turn-based games I like:
Final Fantasy 5,6,7,9,10. Dragon Quest series, Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG
Action-based RPG I like:
Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Skyrim
For myself, turn-based is not the problem with old RPGs, it has always been random encounters.
I think random encounters add a bit of risk-reward. In Dragon Question XI, I can avoid nearly all enemies, making traveling in the overworld trivial. I only need to selectively fight when I want to grind. That removes the fun of exploring for me.
In older DQ games, I enjoy having the risk of exploring far with the reward of discovering new places. Because of random encounters, I have to manage my resources and MP with strategies.
For me, it comes down to not being able to decide moment to moment if I want to engage with monsters. It’s not a problem grinding, however, being forced to delay exploration and progressing the story because of bad RNG is infuriating.
And I feel that most of the ways that random monsters have been implemented can be accomplished with at the very least visible indications of monsters on the map.
Maybe there is a way to lean into the frustration and create a meaningful experience, but for a traditional JRPG, I have to force myself to overcome random encounters. Heck, even later JRPS implemented systems to liven up the experience with auto battles and realtime elements.
As someone with a disability that limits my response times and alertness. Turn based is the only way I can play.
I think the reason turn-based combat gets a bad rap is because a lot of older JRPGs didn’t do a great job of making you explore all your tools. If you can get by with clicking basic Attack most turns, if you feel the need to do so in order to hoard your precious MP, that gets stale. But modern titles have done a fantastic job avoiding that pitfall, and it saddens me when people write off an entire genre as ‘antiquated’ because they seem to be stuck on that bad first impression. Why would any entire genre be a thing of the past?
You could also say similar things about a lot of real-time games. Like when I played the original God of War trilogy I felt like I was just mashing Square for all 3 games because the heavy attacks and grabs just weren’t worth bothering with. A lot of mediocre shooters have one good gun that you use for the whole game. So while I do agree that is a problem with a lot of turn-based games and the stigma may be impacting public opinion today, I think it’s a problem with general combat (or even more broadly just game design) rather than something specific to turn-based.
Assassin’s Creed: Wait for swing, counter. Wait for swing, counter. Wait for swing, counter.
I think a lot of games still struggle with this, and it’s not unique to turn based combat or jrpgs.
One of the worst things you can do to a new player is dump way too many different types of tools and customization options on them all at once. The improvement many games made was to keep the player in a limited box for a tutorial phase, and then open up Pandora’s box and give them oodles of new stuff to consider all at once.
A good middle ground is silently doing that (for subsequent playthroughs) while offering a more incremental introduction for new players. But any mechanics should get immediate reinforcement. My biggest nerd rage instance this year was Clair Obscur teaching you how to jump, and then almost immediately giving you an enemy that looks like it does a jump attack but really requires a normal dodge.
Persona 5 and more recently Clair Obscur proved people like TRPGs. Last month Square Enix said they’ll also focus more on turn-based games. I think they’re here to stay.
Square Enix’s smaller side projects have been hitting it out of the park lately, but it still feels like they really really really don’t want to put a serious budget behind a turn-based title.
I enjoy both and think both should be used when appropriate.
Baldur’s Gate 3 massively benefits from turn based combat. It allows for planning synergy between characters.
Skyrim works better in real time because you are only controlling one character.
There are games where you control multiple units in real time that I enjoy, like Starcraft, but I can’t think of any games where you control a single thing in a turn based environment for the whole game that is fun for me.
I can’t think of any games where you control a single thing in a turn based environment for the whole game that is fun.
Rogue?
Card games and board games. Slay the Spire, Inscryption, Magic the Gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, poker, chess. Golf. Tabletop RPG’s like D&D.
It can get kind of hard to define “single thing” though. In Chess you have a ton of different pieces but can only move one per turn, while in D&D one character might get an action surge or have a familiar that gets actions. In Slay the Spire you have just one character but a handful of different cards each turn.
I would also consider a lot of adventure games and visual novels to be mostly turn-based. Like the original version of Myst, the Ace Attorney series, Sucker for Love.
Transistor is a kind of hybrid between real-time and turn-based, and you only control Red in that.
I don’t find those to be fun, but that is a personal opinion.
Went back and clarified the wording.
Ah that’s another reason I don’t like the hybrid combat in FF7 Remake. It feels unnatural switching between characters in an action combat. You have a very good point about Skyrim only controlling one character.
I played the tabletop game Battletech back in the day and since the 90s there have been two game titles with fairly consistent game play.
Battletech is a top down, turn based tactical game series where you might start with a single mech (giant robot) but will have a lance (squad) of multiple mechs by the first few hours of the game at least. Turn based works great!
Mechwarrier is a first person shooter series from the cockpit view, plays out in real time, and you only control the one mech. You often get computer controlled lance mates that you can give orders to like destroy a target or defend a location, but you don’t actively control them.
It is always what I think of when people compare turn based to real time, and both series are some of my favorite games because they take different approaches to the exact same table top game and do it in fun ways.
It all depends on the tactical depth IMO. If it’s just “classic RPG hit hit hit heal hit hit hit”, then go for live or at least something in between like Grandia II.
This. Turn-based is justified if and only if it’s complex enough to be unreasonable to do in real-time and the design wants to reward the player for taking time to think.
Or turnbased should be tactical, not just complicated.
Thing of the past? It’s still very much a thing of the present lol.
As a roguelike fan, I LOVE turn-based combat - when it’s done right. Sure, if you give millions of healing potions and let us to save at any point then it will turn into a mindless “hit hit hit” slog but it’s not intrinsic to tb games.
For modal combat, NO-SKIN is really, really good, and I enjoyed my time with Osteoblasts and Darkest Dungeon too. There are plenty of ways of making tb combat fun and engaging, I wish there were more good examples though…
NO-SKIN can be rough around the edges but overall it’s so novel that it’s hard not to love it
I like augmented interactive turn based systems. Action point systems like Chrono Cross or Xenogears. Trigger systems like Super Mario RPG or Legend of the Dragoon are fun too.
What about the hybrid combat in FF7 remake? Have you tried it?
Yeah, I’m currently playing Rebirth and the system is satisfying. No complaints.
Maybe I should give Remake another try. I really dislike the padding and the story changes though.
Yeah me too at first. I just accepted that it’s a retelling or a shifted timeline separate from the original and have come around to enjoying it for what it is.
Gotta try Phantasy Star 4, bloody great game. I would recommend playing it with an emulator, can increase the game speed
I want to try it but people say that the spell names are cryptic and impossible to remember. I don’t want to be referring to a spreadsheet everytime I use spells.
Or is that not really an issue in your opinion?
Some of the latter spell combos can be a bit hard to remember but for the most part they make sense.
Its been 15+ years and I can still remember a handful of combos, like Zan+watt = blizzard storm (prolly wrong name), foi+ zan= firestorm. Demi and wren have a combo which is good against robots.
You don’t need to know all the combos, in fact the less ya know the better. Ya throw together an attack plan then BAM random combo that kills everything
If you want a great turn based rpg with a long running story check out the ‘trails’ series.
The series started in the early 2000s and are still releasing games today that are part of the same universe, within roughly the same time frame (about a 10 year spread), and have reoccurring characters. The turn based combat also has a bit of positional/range aspects reminiscent of tactical RPGs but does not cross the line. Older games are sprite based and newer games look like more like anime.
Do note that the starting trilogy, trails in the sky, is currently being remade with a release this year. The story is told in order so do not skip around or jump to a later series.
As a kid I played the turn based Might & Magic 4&5 like it was real time. So I spammed the attack button as soon as an enemy appeared. For some strange reason that game was really hard for me. Still loved it. I still play it every few years.
Long Covid has left me mentally and physically disabled. So turn based games are much easier for me to play.
I love turn based combat,it allows you time to think and be effective without having young twitchy control
I like the idea of action/skill based combat but I’m never good enough to have that much fun with it. Singleplayer FPS and games like Torchlight is about it for me. As I get older and time more limited I can’t just “get good”.
Turn based games let me play at my own pace and I enjoy the strategy/puzzle aspect of it. I played a lot of XCOM Enemy Unknown, and I’ve had a great time playing Tactical Breach Wizards nowadays, if that counts as turn based. I dunno, I played a lot of Pokemon as a kid so I don’t find the concept that weird.
I generally prefer turn-based, for several reasons
- Sobriety, or lack thereof. Sometimes I want to have some THC and/or alcohol while I’m gaming. It’s not for everyone of course, but for me this is probably my favorite way to adjust difficulty in games. I love pokemon, but I find all hardcore romhacks and nuzzlocke variants very arbitrary and usually not fun. I find it way more fun to play just good old vanilla pokemon while stoned.
Civilization is another example - just going up to Deity difficulty can arguably make the game easier because it just gives the CPU’s more resources without making the CPU’s any better at using those resources. For an experienced player, that just means more stuff for you to steal and take advantage of.
Some games I prefer to be sober for., and those tend to be real-time. Like a high-heat Hades run for example, or when I used to do Monster Hunter World multiplayer.
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Lag. For the most part, technological advancement has been a strict improvement for videogames, but the one area you could argue the opposite is responsiveness. I’m not a proponent of CRT’s and I do not own any, but I cannot deny that CRT’s are faster than most digital displays unless you specifically buy some fancy “gaming” display. Wireless controllers add more lag, especially depending on the controller. I really enjoy streaming with Steam Link and Playetation Remote Play, which is generally great but does add a bit of latency. Emulation can add more lag too. For the most part these are typically negligible as long as I have a decent controller, but there are some exceptions. I can tolerate much moreag in turn-based games than real-time games.
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Complexity. Turn-based games tend to have more stuff to chew on than real-time ones. This is pretty intuitive, because turn-based games give you more time to think about things while real-time games need to be careful not to overwhelm the player. I really like being able to think about games when I’m not playing them. When I’m in the shower or working out or mowing the lawn or in a waiting room. It’s not that real-time games have nothing to think about at all, but usually orders of magnitude less. I’ve put dozens of hours into thinking about and researching games like Bloodborne, Hades, and Monster Hunter ,but I’ve put THOUSANDS of hours into thinking about Pokemon and Civ.
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Character vs player performance. Kind of related to my last point, is that in real time games when the character dies it tends to feel more frustrating. If I die because I didn’t react fast enough, I didn’t recognize an animation, I missed seeing a particle effect, or my thumb slipped… Those are all just boring to me. If I die because I was too greedy trying to build builders instead of military in Civ, to me that’s an interesting decision that I can work with.
In real-time games, all I can do is just practice. Just do the same thing over and over again to try to shave ms’s of my reaction time. I have no problem doing that for things in real life, but I don’t like having to do tedious repetitive work for my leisure activity.
