I try not to do bummer posts, but this was a good write up on the lobbying going on by rat poison companies against the efforts of animal rescues and environmental protection groups.
There are efforts going on in many cities/states/countries to ban these poisons that hurt more than just rodents. The effects are horrendous on the rodents and those who eat the poisoned rodents.
You might want to see what is being done where you live on the campaign against SGARs (second generation rodenticides) to push them to save your local wildlife.
I’ve seen so many photos and videos of raptors, foxes, weasels, eagles, and more that have lost their lives. The cruelty and ignorance needs to stop. I’ll spare you guys the pics, but this post is worth a read.
I want to address something pest companies have been bringing up a lot in an attempt to dissuade from a state prohibition on anticoagulant rodenticides. Namely, they really talk up the angle that anticoagulants have an “antidote” that can help cure exposed animals and people.
For the unfamiliar, anticoagulants work by inhibiting the production of Vitamin K in the body. Vitamin K helps our blood clot. Hence, anticoagulants stop blood from clotting. This is why many victims–from people to pets to wildlife-- die by internal bleeding issues (in their brains, in their guts, etc.).
So, both in human and animal medicine, patients are administered Vitamin K when they are suffering from anticoagulant poisoning.
Here’s the thing though that the pest companies conveniently leave out of the narrative:
Vitamin K can only be an effective treatment if the anticoagulant exposure the patient suffers from has been caught relatively early enough and dependent on how much ARs (and how many different compounds) have been in the person’s or animal’s system. Often, by the time an animal arrives at the hospital, the poisons have done too much damage to their bodies and has accumulated in such high levels that no amount of Vitamin K can reverse it.
Let’s be clear: people have DIED from these poisons too–also bleeding out–where the Vitamin K didn’t work.
Even in cases where Vitamin K has worked–it almost always requires multi-week if not multi- month daily doses. And usually the people or animals need blood or plasma transfusions-- sometimes numerous ones–because of all the blood loss they are suffering in the interim.
Remember the case of the Great Horned Owl family on Cape Cod in 2021 treated by New England Wildlife Centers–where nearly the ENTIRE FAMILY was obliterated by these poisons? Both parents and two babies died (one was bleeding out of every orifice and neither Vitamin K or an emergency transfusion with a resident owl could save him–see photo from NEWC). Another owlet did survive. But she required NINE MONTHS of daily Vitamin K doses until her blood would clot on its own again and she could be released.
And yet, pest companies and their lobbying associations disingenuously frame this antidote a one-time panacea–like a magical EpiPen or anti-venom where you inject the animal once and-- voila!–they are cured and any bodily damage they have incurred is immediately and completely reversed.
It’s bullshit.
Perhaps when these poisons were a rarity, and animals had modest levels in their systems, Vitamin K could help. But with these poisons so ubiquitous and so many compounds of them everywhere–it’s not as helpful.
Let’s also be clear that really, when a pet has been
poisoned by ANY rat poison–not just anticoagulants–early detection is the surest way to recovery. The beginning treatment is the same regardless of the type of poison. That is–induce vomiting, administer activated charcoal to absorb any remnants of the poison still in the digestive system, and then offer electrolytes and supplemental fluids for supportive care. The problem is, of course, many times we don’t know if an animal has been poisoned until this point has been passed.
I will concede the pest companies on one point though. ALL poisons are bad and none of them really should be in widespread or routine circulation. ALL poisons kill animals with first- hand exposure (which is more common than people think–we’ve all seen the photos and footage of broken open bait stations). And ALL poisons do work up the food chain or cause impacts in some secondary consumers at least to an extent, despite popular belief that some poisons do not.
Tufts Wildlife Clinic found the neurotoxin Bromethalin in the bodies of birds of prey and it was also implicated in the death of another Massachusetts Bald Eagle roughly around the same time of MK’s passing. It has also been found in the bodies of mountain lions.
Cholecalciferol, or as it’s more commonly known, Vitamin D–is often promoted as a poison that doesn’t cause secondary impacts. This is false. While there was one small and short-term study on barn owls fed Vit D-poisoned mice where the owls showed no impact, studies on other kinds of predators–like dogs–have shown secondary impact when fed mice or rats poisoned by Vit D. It’s even been theorized the rise in use of Vit D is contributing to coyote deaths (another canid with similar physiology as dogs) in California.
As someone with a science background, a lack of peer review research doesn’t mean something is safe. It just means it hasn’t been studied. And I have no desire to have our wildlife and pets be guinea pigs as we slot in one poison for another.
This is why Save Arlington Wildlife does not endorse or encourage the use of ANY rat poison and discourages their use overall. That is why businesses that sign our poison-free pledge and get to have SAW’s sign on their store windows have committed to no rat poisons.
The real solution is to release bobcats and owls into our cities. Plus they are cute AF :3
Our local city coyotes look like they can bench 230 because they are eating invasive rodents.
When in doubt, let nature help by releasing apex predators.
Urban rodent problems? Predators. Pest species eating all of your crops? Predators. Prion diseases like CWD infecting and destroying deer and elk? Surprisingly, predators.
It is almost all of they were here for a reason… 🤔
😉
Had rats getting into the crawl space under our house. Was losing that battle until I swapped to chemical warfare - specifically a 5lb supply of cayenne pepper from a big online retailer. That and a leafblower and I hope the owls enjoy their dinner with a little Cajun flare. Have not had a problem since (also can’t go in the crawl space anymore, because, reasons).
Birds don’t have capsaicin receptors, so it makes no difference to them. You can mix cayenne pepper into birdseed too to keep mammals from raiding it.
Yeah but, like, won’t any service people who have to work in that crawlspace now have to take extreme precautions? I’d hate to be a plumber in that mess. In fact I’d turn you down. How would you clean it up, or a future owner?
Dave’s Insanity Hot Sauce has helped several rodents instantly decide that my house is a terrible place to forage.
I would rather use a trap that catches them and then drown them in a tub. Seems like the cleanest option
that seems kinda unnecessarily traumatic. is there a reason snap traps are not preferred?
What if some other animal stands on it, like a pet cat.
i mean… if you have a pet cat, i would think that even a snap trap is unnecessary. though i know elder cats exist
If its outside the house there is also other cats.
Not only that, for those people who don’t care about wildlife, poisoned rodents try to seek out shelter when they feel ill, and usually the closest shelter is your home.
They will crawl into a wall or attic somewhere and die, then begin to rot and stink and create a nice little moist environment for mould to take ahold and start the spread through your house.
Poisons are the worst choice for rodent control for many reasons
A 2018 study found rat poison in 10 out of 120 wild pigs and 10 out of 12 bears found in agricultural or residential areas, where the poisons are more commonly used.
Those are some pretty scary ratios!
It’s important to remember that injured and dying animals are easier targets, but that quick meal may come with a steep price.
I’m glad the only pest I get is ants. I can usually either knock them out with cornmeal, tea tree oil, or I got an animal safe chemical spray if they are too persistent. I just try not to spray any spiders with it. I love my spiders. More spiders please.
agricultural or residential areas
See, I can understand & justify urban areas.
But agricultural areas and residential areas with like, yards, are exactly where people bump up against wildlife and have to learn that this comes with certain reasonable responsibilities.
Sorry you may need traps and a cat, and to have someone find & plug up where the critters are getting in.
Thank you, I live downtown in a capital city and the rats here are something else, they have colonized our attic in times past, had to remove hundreds of pounds of nesting material. Norway roof rats. Incredible climbers.
Carefully closing up all the holes in your foundation and ensuring your food is carefully secured doesn’t work. These are fucking city rats on a mission to fuck, breed, and devour. They can climb up your downspouts, up the walls of your house.
I hate rat poison with a passion but it’s the only thing that’s made a difference.
I just responded to another comment with this update on California’s latest changes to the laws.
It sounds like this update removed FGARs and further limited usage in specific wildlife areas, but still has exemptions for food production and water storage.
Now I understand the need to protect those things, but that still sounds like a lot of places in California.
Each step is at least somethingthat hopefully helps more animals, so still a win, but hopefully more solutions can still be found.
We live in the woods, so we have mice, owls, and all sorts of other wildlife. I don’t want to hurt wildlife, but I’m definitely not going to tolerate families of mice in the attic. I also don’t have the time or energy to climb into the attic every day to check traps – so mouse bait it is.
My hope is that the mice are dying in or near the house, and not out in the open where an owl might nab them. I’ve found some indoors, and have smelled others. That’s good evidence to me that the house mice are staying in the house to die. I’ll look into MouseX like @just_ducky_in_NH@lemmy.world mentioned, though.
Have you not tried
?
I have tried it wasnt very effective.
Why not?
Not really sure, they never went in. I tried it my barn and i should have at least caught one by accident since ive had them drown in partial filled watering buckets. I know it wasn’t a bait issue because i could fill sticky traps with same bait. It was something about the bucket trap itself. I washed it thinking it had something but nope.
I haven’t. What do people usually do with the bucketed mice? Drive them across the train tracks and release them?
Just some info here. No judgements, but there are things you may wish to consider when deciding what to do.
From Mouse Ranch
Relocating Wild Mice
If you caught a wild mouse and want to relocate it, a little extra consideration can help it survive in its new surroundings. I assume you have some concern for the mouse’s welfare or you wouldn’t be reading this. These are my suggestions and I don’t expect everyone to be as concerned as I might be. After reading this you can decide how much effort you’re willing to put into relocating.
One thing most people don’t consider when they catch a mouse is that it may be a female and have a nest full of nursing babies. Nursing moms are usually much more agitated and aggressive about trying to escape than other mice, so they can get back to their babies. If you relocate a nursing mom, they babies will die in the nest. You can often tell if a mouse is nursing by looking for protruding nipples. Usually you won’t be able to see the nipples unless she is nursing. I would release a nursing mom to return to her babies and try to re-catch her and the babies in a few weeks and than relocate them all together.
Relocate the mouse as soon as possible. If you can’t relocate the mouse immediately, avoid handling it; wild animals do best when they have little human contact. If the weather is extremely cold I would wait for better conditions. A relocated mouse will have no shelter or food stores to help it through bad weather conditions.
In order to keep the mouse from returning, you should take it about 2 to 3 miles from your house. Try to find a location away from human habitation that provides some shelter like a pile of wood, branches or rocks, or at least some low ground cover. This will shelter the mouse from predators until it can build a proper nest. I would also leave some food (a quarter cup of uncooked oat meal, peanuts, seeds or even dry dog or cat food would be fine) and some nesting material (a few torn up paper towels), this is more important in colder weather. Hide the food where larger animals can’t reach it. Dropping it into the sheltering pile of rocks or sticks is a good way to prevent birds and squirrels from eating it. The mouse will come back to collect and hide it for later consumption.
I know this sounds like a lot of work just to release a wild mouse. Living in the wild is always precarious. Release in the wild with no food stores or handy shelter can change precarious to death. If you care enough to relocate, a little extra effort will help make it successful.
Thanks for the info.
Always a pleasure. 🦉
That is an option, yes.
The SGARs that are the real problem are designed to kill in a single dose. The First Generation poisons take repeated feedings. That can be safer for the predators as it can have time to be metabolized, while SGARs can’t be, they just accumulate until the predator dies.
I’m just here to share info so you can make the right decisions for you. Some things we don’t know are problems until we learn more about them. The health of your family comes first, but if there is an equal solution that is also safe, I’m sure you’d want to have all your options.
I wish there was an easy compromise. I subscribe to an Owl community on Lemmy, so it’s safe to say I was already aware of the mouse poison problem when I decided on what to do. I’ve just been trying to reduce my guilt by telling myself the house mice are staying in the house when they croak.
It has also been on my list to stuff some copper wool into some spots where the mice might be getting in. If it’s not too hot today I’ll get on the ladder.
I believe (without much evidence) that the Barred owls visit our yard for frogs, toads, and voles. We live next to wetlands and have loads of toads.
Unfortunately according to Health Canada, while a single dose is lethal, it’s not lethal very quickly, and they can wander around for over a week before dying:
They generally provide a lethal dose after one single feeding, although death is usually delayed 5 to 10 days and animals continue feeding.
The first generation poisons also don’t work anymore, that’s why they invented the SGARs. They used to work in the 50’s, but rodent populations worldwide developed a resistance to it. Now they can eat warfarin until the bait is gone and survive.
Get a barn/attic cat?
That environment isn’t suitable for a domestic animal.
I think they mean a cat that grew up mousing and knows how to catch and eat mice. Both of my cats came from my in-laws farm, and both greatly enjoy when the first cold nights of late fall come around and a couple of mice make it into the house, because they spend the entire night chasing and ultimately killing the mice (and then we toss them outside for wildlife to eat because the cats are only after the hunt and prefer their kibble for feeding)
Anticoagulants have already been banned in California .
I see CA does have some good limits on them. There are a number of exceptions, but it sounds like the third update to the bill that went into effect this year is trying to keep them away from other animals as much as possible.
Those of you who still have those kinds of social media where the CEO is a literal fascist, maybe post it there? Oh, and Mastodon too.
It’s a balancing act. You can’t be letting mice and rats live in your home chewing on electrical wires, that’s a fire hazard.
So you say you’ll take the humane option and use snap traps that just kill the rodent, nothing else. Which sounds easy enough until you’ve been woken up at 3am to the screams of a half dead mouse and had to put it out of its misery by hand.
So we use the SGARs with care and caution.
They may not scream but death by poisoning is still agony. And at least a snap trap means you know where the body is, instead of it decomposing in the walls and bringing bugs. That’s before you get into the whole food chain effect of OP’s post.
There are sleeves and wraps available to protect the wiring, as well as steel wool to plug holes.
Nobody wants want to be woken at 3 am by their cat presenting the leftovers of its successful mouse-pounce, but it’s much worse to have to run it to the emergency vet because the mouse was full of poison their landlord put out.
I’ve had good luck with my automatic electrocution traps. My toddler can’t get in there, and I got sick to having to manually kill 5 mice a week from the no kill traps.
I feel you, At my last house we had an infestation happen. I tried the dumper buckets, glue traps, snap traps, electric traps. I eventually managed to get rid of them, It took ages and the incessant chewing comforting from the walls was more than I could handle.
When I moved, I set up glue traps to the sides of the garage door and in disused rooms behind the doors. There is some rat poison around but it should be the last place they should get to It’s there as a last ditch effort hopefully they never reach it.
I have seen ads for RatX. I’m not impressed with a slow death, but my neighbor uses it because it “doesn’t affect rat predators”. Have you heard about this stuff? Opinions?
Imo, it doesn’t work. The active ingredients are corn gluten meal and salt. The only actual study I could find lacks any real control and makes it’s conclusions basically by saying “yeah, seems to be less mice around lately”.
They claim that corn gluten meal somehow lines the stomach and intestines preventing the rats/mice from hydrating and then the salt dehydrates them even further. I kinda have doubts about this, because I know they use corn gluten meal as cheap feed stock for animals like lab mice and guinea pigs.
I thought that just gave some rad resistance
Nah it gives rat resistance
I’ll have to look into how that works. Thanks for sharing!