So? Don’t bomb babies. This isn’t hard
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What if they bomb you first? Is violence justified in response to violence?
My opinion is that pacifist opinions on violence should be held at the start of conflict and go no further when it comes to the ethics of force progression. It’s just an opinion but don’t expect too much support for your opinion when you are flatly against all war regardless of justification. Hitler loved folks like you.
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Is violence justified in response to violence?
Yes, which is why Israel is being bombed. Israel started the violence by its occupation of Palestine in 1967.
Ironically, the rocket attacks are not inherently a war crime in the context of the current conflict. It is debatable if they serve a military purpose but literally nobody is focusing on that right now. They are focusing on the blatant attack on over a thousand civilians of multiple nationalities in a face to face fashion and taking of civilian hostages. That is the justification for the current conflict. Prior to that, the conflict was largely contained in spite of the constant and indiscriminate rocket attacks with no military purpose.
Israel left the occupation and Hamas was shortly thereafter elected despite significantly improving living and political conditions. How perverse these incentives and narratives are.
That is the justification for the current conflict. Prior to that, the conflict was largely contained in spite of the constant and indiscriminate rocket attacks with no military purpose.
The conflict was “contained” in the sense that Israelis typically weren’t getting killed. It was not contained in any meaningful way for Palestinians. This is an article where an expert talks about your particular misunderstanding of the conflict.
TLDR: Israeli aggression has been a persistent reality in Gaza for the past 18 years, and that in and of itself is violent. Hamas and Gazans didn’t respond to peace with violence; the status quo they find themselves in is itself violent.
Israel left the occupation and Hamas was shortly thereafter elected despite significantly improving living and political conditions. How perverse these incentives and narratives are.
You mean when Israel started blockading Gaza (which started in 2005, not 2007), killing its economy, and withheld PA taxes for more than a year?
You’ve certainly provided the single most biased source on this topic consistently from the past twenty years. Do you get all your news from there or just this conflict?
Maybe actually counter the points in the article?
hiiii! X3
why are you not including Gaza’s treatment of Egypt in any of this? :3
You mean the opposite, right? If so then yeah the fact that Egypt is cooperating with Israel’s blockade is beyond disgusting. That said, I’m not sure how it’s relevant when we’re talking about Israel.
Even better idea.
I keep seeing both Israel and the US say they have evidence but neither of them seem to be able or willing to show such evidence.
That by itself should make every single person concerned, because if they actually had evidence, they would put it right out there for everyone to see. What do they gain by hiding it?
For those who don’t want to give twitter traffic: this is a video of a single person with an RPG crossing the street near a different hospital.
“evidence”
I don’t undertand how Israel isn’t a meme yet
Is there a mirror? I don’t have a Twitter account.
Edit: nevermind, it worked on mobile but not on my desktop lol
Good thing Biden is here to be the spokesperson for Israel for some reason. Show us the evidence or fuck off, and stop buying bullets to kill children while you’re at it.
The article shows the admin literally saying this doesn’t justify bombing it and they don’t want to see firefights in it.
There’s a video of a Hamas guy firing a rocket from the hospital. I doubt you’ll watch it
Well yeah no ones going to watch a video you don’t even link?
Link? Not that I doubt, but saying there’s a video ≠ showing the video.
EDIT: Downvoted for asking evidence lol
EDIT2: Thanks @Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world for the video link, that’s how you do it @blahsay@lemmy.world instead of being obtuse and combative. Yes I did watch it, no thanks to you.
lemmy doesn’t like things that can show gaza in a bad light. i blame binary thinking! :3
Did you go to the same spokesman orientation as Biden? Why not post the evidence if it’s so compelling?
Because it’s already in the feed and we both know you won’t watch it anyway 🤷. Which country is your propaganda team from? My money is Iran but hard to say
What feed? What the fuck are you even talking about? Did you get a script for the wrong platform or something?
Lol ‘what feed’. I’m curious how a state propagandist sees lemmy now. Perhaps you have what you see curated 🤔
You’re being really weird. Could you link the video you referenced in your previous comment please?
I’ve seen the video, but why not just link it? Why are you blaming them for not doing it? I never understood this method.
The one with a guy walking with an RPG near a different hospital?
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It literally says “al-Quds hospital” bruh.
oh oops! sorry (〃ω〃‘’)
Ok that’s great. Where’s the evidence that’s going to convince me it’s OK to bomb a hospital full of sick and wounded because of what Hamas is doing in their vicinity?
“To be clear, we do not support striking a hospital from the air. We do not want to see a firefight in a hospital where innocent people, helpless people, sick people are simply trying to get the medical care they deserve,” he said.
I don’t think they’re trying to.
Doesn’t really matter if they are “trying to” or not when they do it.
Sorry, I guess my answer was want clear, they are not trying to give you evidence that convinces you it’s okay to bomb a hospital. They explicitly say it doesn’t justify it.
Fair enough. Fact remains - they are bombing hospitals (among other civilian targets) and I keep being directly or indirectly called an anti-semite for refusing to say it’s OK.
I don’t think they care what you think
Ok, but this is a discussion forum.
Either show us or shut up. The White House also had evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We all know how that turned out.
Cool, so they’re gonna show us… and the evidence for bombing refugee camps, and the those for bombing trucks bringing aids, they must have enough evidence to keep us busy for a couple of months with what Israel did the last month… otherwise they can fuck right off.
hiii~ pretty sure no one is bombing aid trucks. do you has video?
HAHAHA. AL JAZEEERRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Funded by Qatar, the same who house Hamas leadership!
but hey, let’s LOOk at their source, which is the red cross… They don’t even say who shot it. and there’s no video of them shooting it anywhere despite there being footage of… well everything else.
What about euro med human rights monitor reporting https://x.com/EuroMedHR/status/1724896319570059536?s=20
People are attacking the credibility of the US sources while at the same time blindly accepting Al Jazeera sources. Incredible idiots
Al Jazeera is definitely biased, but they don’t outright lie. The US has done, on multiple occasions.
You are delusional if you think Al Jazeera doesn’t lie. You can say the US lies more than Al.Jazeera. that’s a fair assertion
But to say Al Jazeera never lies but the US does? Crazy trash
https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/columnist/332440/al-jazeera-and-the-art-of-deception/
https://honestreporting.com/al-jazeera-exposed-blood-libels-defamation-and-lies/
Aljazeera Arabic sucks yeah, that’s not news. That said the documentary was news to me, I guess Al-Jazeera English has its own issues. That said, they’re quoting their sources in the article I linked so… Yeah.
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heeey, that’s not very nice, stan! 3:<
Well then show us the evidence. And not videos of random calendars-I mean guard shift lists.
Even if that’s true - which I doubt - it doesn’t excuse bombing the hospital.
I DON’T CARE.
THEY COULD HAVE THE FUCKING GHOST OF OSAMA BIN LADEN IN THERE AND I WOULDN’T CARE!
IT’S A HOSPITAL.
Man, wish everyone had been this fired up over Ukraine.
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Neither of those articles say that, and in fact your first article mentions Hamas firing on the hospital, not firing from.
That’s not true. That’s not what the article says.
Fatah gunmen began firing mortars and rocket-propelled grenades at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, drawing Hamas fire from inside the building, killing one Hamas and one Fatah fighter.
According to the article, Fatah was firing on the hospital and Hamas was firing from the hospital.
“These attacks by both Hamas and Fatah constitute brutal assaults on the most fundamental humanitarian principles,”
It says both. They fired at hamas, hamas fled to a safe zone and the Fatah fired on the hospital… And hamas returned fire.
Yes, they returned fire from the hospital.
EDIT: the part you quoted doesn’t say who was firing from where.
Aside from third party articles that dispute most if not all of the claims therein specifically the doctors and nurses they reference are a. Not known to be workers there, b. At least one of those doctors was under isreali detention only to be executed later.
If you choose to believe that by all means do but don’t expect everyone else to.
I can’t independently verify if the source is accurate since I wasn’t on the ground in Gaza when this happened. I’m just telling you what the article said. I don’t think it’s a good practice to lie to people about the claims that sources make.
Fun fact neither was the author, it’s taken from Israeli reports.
Did yall missed the video of them launching from the hospital?
If only there were some way to get individuals you want to capture or kill without also killing everyone around them. Oh well, maybe one day someone will invent a way to do that.
Seriously, y’all. How is “there’s a bad guy in that hospital” somehow an acceptable justification for blowing up the hospital?!
Dear Israel: use your world renowned special forces and world renowned secret police to go get the assholes and disappear them to a prison cell or whatever without killing a bunch of innocent civilians!! For fuck’s sake…
This is the best summary I could come up with:
ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE, Nov 14 (Reuters) - The White House on Tuesday said it had its own intelligence that Hamas was using Gaza’s largest hospital Al Shifa to run its military operations, and probably to store weapons, saying those actions constituted a war crime.
“We have information that confirms that Hamas is using that particular hospital for a command and control mode” and probably to store weapons, national security spokesperson John Kirby told reporters aboard Air Force One.
He said the United States had information that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad were using some hospitals in the Gaza Strip, including Al Shifa, to conceal or support their military operations and to hold hostages.
“We have been clear on multiple occasions - Hamas actions do not lessen Israel’s responsibilities to protect civilians in Gaza, and this is something we’re going to continue to have an active conversation with our counterparts about,” he added.
Israeli forces have surrounded Gaza City’s Al Shifa hospital, the biggest in the enclave, which they say sits atop an underground headquarters of Hamas militants.
Hamas, Gaza’s ruling Islamist group, denies fighters are present and says 650 patients and 5,000-7,000 other civilians are trapped inside the hospital grounds, under constant fire from snipers and drones.
The original article contains 437 words, the summary contains 209 words. Saved 52%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
thank you
