cross-posted from: https://kbin.social/m/mensliberation@lemmy.ca/t/623593
Harping on people to get married from up in the ivory tower fails to engage with reality of life in the dating trenches.
My guess is that more and more people are realizing that they can still live very fulfilling lives without getting married.
I can’t imagine how weird and scary it is for women to be dating right now, knowing that there are so many far-right extremist men out there, who have a high potential of being misogynistic or even violent.
Centrist in bio = 95% red flag.
Centrist = Far Right MAGA = So far right they’re fascist Libertarian = Far right but in denial (most of the time) Democrat = Center Right
As a man it’s weird seeing other men look at the same guy who said “grab them by the pussy” in complete seriousness and then say “that’s my president!”
And then in the next breath they complain that women don’t give them the time of day. Like it’s… strange. I think if you’re gonna be misogynist you should also realize that means a lot of women aren’t going to be into you, but some of them just straight up don’t see it. The math just does not work in their brains.
You just reminded me of that time when young right-wing men were complaining that women wouldn’t date them when they found out about their political stance.
It was one of the funniest things I’ve read in “the news” in a while.
Remember when they made that dating app for conservatives and then women didn’t sign up for it?
Didn’t hear about that one. Funny stuff
It’s not turning out very well for women. A recurring theme in this area is that men seem hesitant on commitment, which ends up ending the relationship one way or another.
The issue is more complex and deeper.
Depends what you mean by “commitment”.
Some think it means marriage and children. Which is understandable being hesitant about. Both are big steps that require some “scrying” into the future.
But I don’t have the impression there’s as much of a problem with simply commiting to a relationship and being a couple.
Marriage is the ultimate sign of commitment, making your relationship legal and/or spiritual while declaring it in front family and friends.
Men who are against marriage are seemingly against commitment, but I think that comes out of a strong desire for commitment and stability.
Children are whole different issue from marriage admittedly.
It’s dependent on a few different things. The country you live in and such.
Some years back there was a wave of ‘catfishing’ stories in the media. “Get married and lose 49% of everything you own” basically.
That’ll make anyone hesitant to sign a marriage contract.
plus you’ve got societal expectations for marriages. honeymoons, church marriages, the recitals and all that can cost big money. even just the photography. It all costs a bunch of money that some people just don’t have, and they’re too hesitant to burn bridges over it. Sure, you can elope in secret right? But that’s a bigger can of worms then just staying partners
Yup, If we could do away with all negative economic aspects of weddings and marriage, I doubt that kind of commitment would be a problem for most men.
It’s really quite absurd how bad it is in DC. There are so many smart professional young woman here and for so many they’re met by a wall of suit wearing conservative lobbyists who think that all they need to do to “get a wife” is be marginally successful in work, “strong”, and not respectful, kind, intelligent or responsible.
I remember hearing all of the Trump appointees being so angry that no one in DC wanted to date or sleep with them. What did you expect to happen? Taking away women’s right isn’t the turn on you think it is
Trump appointees
I think Whitehouse staffers too
Wait, you’re telling me women who work in politics aren’t head-over-heels for the idea of giving up their careers to…
checks notes
…cook, clean, and rear children for men who think of them exclusively as outlets? Quelle fucking surprise!
Why getting married at all though? It’s not required for a relationship to prosper. People can live very happily together without getting married
Marriage still gives financial benefits from the government though
Not in Belgium 😊. “Legally cohabiting” brings very similar benefits as being married.
It can be useful for bureaucracy
To be considered financially independent on FAFSA so less student debt. It was terrible long-term planning but turns out we really get on so it worked out.
Men (and granted I am male) really do need to drop the alpha male stuff. It’s a shame so many men are drawn into this weird mentality on YouTube thinking that’s what is going to get them a girl… When really it’s the furthest from the truth.
I met my wife at work, made some awkward jokes with her, and eventually asked her out. We split everything a perfect 50/50 and I’m proud to say she is a strong independent woman who definitely does not need me. I can’t imagine the disrespect she would feel if all of a sudden I went all alpha.
Well everyone knows that Alpha males are only in their first round of testing. They should be sent back for updates to become a complete man. Alpha tests never go well
Alpha males are what happens when you leave them in early access. Abandonware.
Yeah, I don’t think relationships should be based on two people “needing” each other. I think it’s a better relationship when two people are so compatible, that they just naturally WANT to be with each other.
Oh god, you’re with a woman who doesn’t NEED you and yet still chooses to be WITH you? The horror! /s
I know right? It’s like we just mutually respect each other, love spending time together, but encourage each other to be their own person as well. The shame we feel together… /s lol
But yeah I don’t understand the mentality of “She needs to be subservient” and “you need to be the alpha” and “gender norms”. it sounds exhausting. These guys have no idea what they’re missing. Sure, we split cleaning 50/50, I’m honestly a terrible cook but I do all of the dishes while she cooks, and then after that? We hang out and play video games together every night. Dudes have no idea what a healthy relationship can be like
I’m over 30 and I have both older and younger acquaintances and family that engage in this macho culture. For the younger ones, I have sympathy, I was much like that too as a young adult - or tried to be anyways. I never really fit in though and I grew up and grew out of trying to “fit in” so hard.
For the older ones however, it’s quite puzzling. I don’t get it. How much lived experience does one need to ignore to figure this out? Is the quest for a male approved identity really preferable to growing into a well developed, emotionally mature man that is actually required to maintain relationships?
It’s stories like those in the article that make me understand the hostility that more extreme feminists react with when presented with things like the “male loneliness epidemic”. (My second reaction, though is that if you think the “alphas” are the lonely ones, you might be mistaken - if that’s the norm, then the “good ones” must be the REALLY lonely ones.)
I met my wife on OKCupid before it went to crap. She just kept telling me how I was so “respectful” compared to literally everyone else she met in years. I didn’t understand then, and nowadays I can only explain so much of that behavior. I suppose it’s a mix of the dominant media culture and internet culture being amplified by actors who either are ignorant of, profit from, or take advantage of it all.
it’s definitely a vicious cycle for the alpha males. They are lonely and they think this will attract women. Of course it pushes more women away, so they dive in deeper thinking they are doing something wrong. Repeat and repeat and they end up being some of the least attractive people out there.
Also a man, I haven’t tried being an “alpha male” because I’m not a toxic asshole, but let’s not pretend it’s not effective. Being genuine and kind has gotten me absolutely nowhere in the girlfriend department and the fact is the worst men I know all have girlfriends. If I was willing to be like that I probably would too.
I think what you’re seeing as toxic asshole may actually be confidence. You don’t need to prop up a woman as a perfect diety, you don’t have to just be nice to them, you have to be a whole complete person. Being nice is the minimum, be more than that. Genuine and kind is the minimum expectation, not the whole package. You, the whole you, are the complete package. Your humor, your jokes, your stories, your interests. You aren’t looking for a princess or queen that you have to bow down for. You’re looking for a true life partner.
I hate to link reddit but this sums it up well. It’s a read, and I’d suggest reading through it. God knows I used to think that way - and it was not a healthy thing for me to do. If you’re thinking this way too then it may be time for some real, and I mean real introspection.
I’m rooting for you bud, I really am. As cliche as it is, you just gotta be yourself. Don’t look with envy at other people, be happy for them. Be a person who you can be proud of and other people will pick up on that.
I’m from a deeply broken home so I’m trying to relearn social interactions. I’ll give that a read.
Me too bud, I had to relearn a lot. For me there was a ton of religious upbringing that taught me that talking to girls is taboo at all, and it didn’t prep me at all for the real world. It took me years to realize that girls were just like boys when you’re talking to them - there’s literally no difference. Something a lot of people here would just eyeroll at but for me it was a major revelation. It took a very good (female) friend to help me realize that. She and I could chat for hours about video games, movies, whatever.
It’s not an easy or fun job, working on yourself, learning how you handle different situations. It’s a long process and personally I learned things about myself that I didn’t like, I had to change. I remember thinking people I worked with thought “He’s the cool mysterious guy” when it turns out they all thought “He’s an absolute asshole. Avoid him”. I took some hard punches learning all of that. But - I came out better for learning it.
I wish you luck on your journey. Self improvement pays off 100 fold and I fully support you for it!
Whew, asking the real questions here. I have a few more:
Why aren’t more people using horse drawn carriages? Why aren’t more people using an abacus? Why aren’t more people sending telegrams? Why aren’t more people having duels? Why aren’t more people paying dowries? Why aren’t more people farming with hand tools? Why aren’t more people hunting and gathering in nomadic bands?
But he had been using drugs lately and had been fired from his last four jobs
Who could possibly have predicted that relationship would turn out poorly. /s
I’ll never understand why so many women date assholes then get upset that they’re dating an asshole.
What are you on about? Women aren’t allowed to be upset after being in a relationship that didn’t work out?
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