• @iluminae@lemmy.world
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    2271 year ago

    Make. An. Affordable. Car.

    Why does every new ev for the US have to be mega deluxe luxury SUV? No one in the US is buying your affordable EV because you only sell them in Europe!

    • @potatopotato@sh.itjust.works
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      801 year ago

      Yeah, a surprising number of people don’t want these hyper complex cars with thousands of microchips and millions of lines of code operating them. Give me an electric 2012 Honda fit/Toyota matrix equivalent that just fucking works and costs $20k or less new.

        • @BURN@lemmy.world
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          11 year ago

          I’m just refusing to buy a car newer than 2008. Really an arbitrary cutoff, but that seems to be about when every car started to get as many electronics into them as possible.

      • @Damage@slrpnk.net
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        141 year ago

        Yeah, I don’t care about color changing LEDs in the trim or talking computers, just give me a cheap android-auto-compatible head unit (replaceable please, none of that integrated bullshit), a cheap instrument cluster and a real handbrake.

        • @potatopotato@sh.itjust.works
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          -11 year ago

          Everyone’s super obsessed with 300-400 mi ranges though. 100mi would be totally fine for most people and would require a small fraction of the battery (bigger batteries give decreasing returns)

          • @LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Until it’s not, and then it’s an expensive pain. I travel 500 + 700 miles three times a year and renting a car for a week isn’t viable. There are enough edge cases just like that for most people.

            Nobody wants to stop for 25 minutes (if you are lucky and don’t have to wait in queue) on their longer trips.

            The actual solution you agree looking for is PHEV. That’s the middle ground that’s perfect for most individuals.

            The phev f150 is the most functional auto/tool for travel and work I’ve ever seen.

      • IWantToFuckSpez
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        1 year ago

        It’s the batteries. They are the biggest cost in an EV. The margins on such a car would be too low. Even the new Volvo XC30 is 35k plus which is one of the cheapest and most barebones EV.

        • @Pretzilla@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          But Volvos have never been cheap. Also big and heavy forever.

          Make an eFit for $15 - 20k and sell a bazillion of them.

          • IWantToFuckSpez
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            1 year ago

            Good luck finding enough batteries for that many cars. That’s the entire problem right now. They can’t scale the production to the point that will make the production of econobox EVs reasonably profitable. Because the worldwide production capacity of lithium batteries is lagging behind the demand right now. Also why the cost of the batteries are high.

            • @Pretzilla@lemmy.world
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              51 year ago

              Well the answer is right there - smaller cars, smaller packs. Can power 2 or 3 fit sized EV’s for every lightning F150 pack.

    • @bobbytables@feddit.de
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      291 year ago

      I currently lease a 2 years old Renault Zoe (very compact car) for 200€ a month (0€ upfront). It was a special deal in Germany for a few months. I charge at home with solar panels and rarely drive more than the 300-350km range.

      It honestly feels like the holy grail of electro mobility.

      • @tankplanker@lemmy.world
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        41 year ago

        And if you had an ICE car you would be spending around that 200 just on fuel, as it is with both my kids and their baby EVs, its like having a free car.

    • @Bye@lemmy.world
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      271 year ago

      There’s no margins there. Just like in real estate, the best margins are at the high end. They won’t make affordable cars while they can make more money on expensive ones.

      • @WallEx@feddit.de
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        131 year ago

        Other companies can, but the big ones can’t? Yeah, no. I don’t buy that for a second.

        • ripcord
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          51 year ago

          Like who do you mean when you say other companies?

            • IWantToFuckSpez
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              1 year ago

              Isn’t that a Chinese company? They can probably get the batteries for cheaper than non-Chinese companies. Batteries are the biggest cost in a econo EV

    • ripcord
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      1 year ago

      Because people are buying all the mid- and high-end EVs. If it’s more profitable, there’s some sense to it until that saturates (although it sounds like that’s finally happening maybe)

      GM tried real hard for the lower-end. And cars like the Bolt EUV ended up actually really good especially for the price. Then they cancelled it because they just weren’t making enough money or volume or scaling like they wanted.

      And at the moment ALL the carmakers have gone kinda nuts with pricing. And sales are still super strong overall. Just…softening. Apparently especially for EVs.

      Also, people are paying way, way too much for cars. It’s insane how many people making $60,000 a year or less are buying cars worth almost that much, and taking out these ridiculous loans. I guess the interest rate hikes are putting a little damper on it, but it’s been just stupid.

      • @hobbit@lemm.ee
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        41 year ago

        The Bolt EUV is the only reason we have an electric car now (personally, I would have gotten the smaller and cheaper Bolt but it was a family decision to go with the EUV). It was reasonable for what you get. The only downside is the slower charging compared to other EVs but I don’t plan on taking it for longer trips. We have an ICE for that.

    • DessertStorms
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      101 year ago

      Why does every new ev for the US have to be mega deluxe luxury SUV?

      Because car manufacturers don’t give two shits what people need, nor what’s best for the environment, they’re in the profit making business, and that’s all that matters.

      We’re at the point now where this shouldn’t need to be pointed out, the fact it does goes to show just how successful (from their viewpoint of course) their propaganda is…

    • @seiryth@lemmy.world
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      71 year ago

      This. It’s even worse in Australia. The only affordable ev is a Tesla 3 @ 55k AUD. Which even then is out of reach of most.

      Why not make a 30k EV? Penetrate the majority of consumers.

      I’m on a great wage and even I shake my head at 80-120k range of most EVs here. Then you get bwm releasing 180k+ EVs… who exactly is buying them?

      When you price a technology out of the reach of people, the tech isn’t the failure.

        • 𝚝𝚛𝚔
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          11 year ago

          I went for a hoon in a BYD the other day, it was awesome fun. Not the dolphin, the other A*.* one that’s everywhere.

          I believe they’re a cheap EV but it has all the bells and whistles, goes like the clappers, can do cool stuff like start the AC remotely so by the time you walk from work to your carpark it’s nice and comfortable, gets 450ish on a charge and can be topped up overnight on a standard power point for most people’s commute.

          I’m so keen to own an EV, all I need is a justification… Right now I have a work vehicle that carries a tonne (literally) at all times which makes an EV less appealing.

    • Pxtl
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      51 year ago

      Because batteries are expensive. So by default you’re targeting a luxury price, whether it’s luxury sports car or a luxury SUV.

    • @Pasta4u@lemmy.world
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      -41 year ago

      Electric cars make zero sense for the less well off. No one wants to go and sit some where for 45 minutes for 80% of a charge when they can go tonangas station and fully gas up a car in less than Five minutes. Also that is if there isn’t a line to one of the few public charging. Imagine working a shit job for 40k a year and then having to go and sit and wait for wven an hour to get to charge your car that then takes an hour to charge it self

      • @ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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        91 year ago

        Imagine working 40 hours a week and having to breathe gas fumes while you bike to work because your homeowners insurance doubled and now you can’t afford your ICE car.

        No one thinks the transition to electric will be fun but it’s necessary because we waited 30 years to even acknowledge climate change. If you want to drive an ICE, you should have to pay for the destruction you’re causing so we can subsidize public transport. But failing that, EVs are the bare minimum.

      • @thisNotMyName@lemmy.world
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        01 year ago

        I guess you are walking around with your phone until it dies, charge it for 5mins and then repeat? … or do you just plug it in over night or when you are not using it? That’s really not a good point you are bringing up here. You could critisize, that there are only few public charging stations (with user friendly terms) or what the comment you answered to is critisizing or even that there are so few alternatives for (really) climate friendly transport, but your point is just ‘what if I am not able to think at all??’

        • @anonymouse
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          51 year ago

          I think the assumption in Pasta4u’s scenario is that home charging overnight is not an option.

          • @AA5B@lemmy.world
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            -11 year ago

            If you own your own home with off street parking, this is established and known technology. Still kind of expensive, but for example, I just got a new circuit for a charger, for less than a new circuit for an induction range.

            The place we need to put the most effort into is rental places or HOAs with off street parking. We have the technology, we know how to do it, but there’s a mismatch between who pays and who benefits. It’s a people problem. If the landlord/HOA pays, how can we help them see the benefit so they’ll be willing to? Eventually this will solve itself when EVs become popular enough that people will be unwilling to rent or live there, but now it’s an obstacle. A purely human obstacle

        • @Pasta4u@lemmy.world
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          21 year ago

          The less well of typically do bot own thier own homes.

          More to the point people who rent in apartment complexes or own condos can’t just have a new breaker put in at thier condo or apartment complex. Some places have large parking lots and would require a lot of work to wire all the spaces woth thier own chargers. Also while it’s simple for you to get a 240v breaker put into your electrical box, what about an apartment complex that has a 100 cars ? It can require expensive work to support that much power drain and most people will commute during the day. That means all the load will happen after 6pm and before 9am.

          Also in the mean time what do you do of you don’t own your own home? Buy an ev and hope the complex you are renting at will put in a charger or two ? What about all the hoa fighting adding chargers and so on.

          Like I saod this will affect the less well off.

          • @thisNotMyName@lemmy.world
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            11 year ago

            Yes, you are right. It only makes sense if you jave the option to charge at home, at your work or similar. Anyway, I’m happy I don’t have to think about this kind of shit. I get on my bike and just drive, if something is broken, it’s usually a $15 fix I can do by myself in an hour.

  • @nxdefiant@startrek.website
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    1521 year ago

    Dealers: We inflated the ever living shit out of the ALREADY inflated MSRP on all our EV’s during a global recession and now no one wants to buy any of them!!

    Manufacturer: The customers have spoken, EV’s are dead.

  • @AA5B@lemmy.world
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    1511 year ago

    EVs aren’t working

    EVs are the highest growth sector for personal vehicles but are growing a little less than expected, and we can’t make big profits yet

    • @cybersandwich@lemmy.world
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      301 year ago

      This is a huge point. The other considerations are: EVs are balls expensive compared to ICE counterparts and often require $500-2k worth of electrical work at your house (assuming you even own it) to put in a charger. If you live in an apartment, good luck.

      And oh, btw, the chargers aren’t standard. Each charging site has different plugs, apps you have to download, etc. Then there is the lack of charging stations that highlights the range anxiety people have with EVs.

      Adoption would be so much faster if EVs cost $15-25k and there were adequate standardized charging options available.

      • @DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        the chargers aren’t standard. Each charging site has different plugs

        IDK where you’re from, but in europe it’s all standardized and all cars, regardless of brand, use the same plug for both AC and DC charging. The whole app/rfid tag mess is true though.

      • BarqsHasBite
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        81 year ago

        EVs cost more up front and then cost less with fuel, maintenance, and longevity.

        • @Whoresradish@lemmy.world
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          61 year ago

          This is kind of true. A lot of the maintenance requirements for ICE vehicles is not needed for EVs. So you save money on things like oil changes and if you can charge at home then charging is probably cheaper than gas. But that battery probably needs to be replaced after about 5 years and that is a very expensive maintenance cost.

          • @surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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            71 year ago

            I have a 2016 leaf. I’ve changed the tires. That’s the maintenance. It’s like $3 to ‘fill’, and that’s about the same as three gallons of ICE distance.

            The battery is around 90% of what I bought it at.

            I have yet to hit any of the problems people are afraid of, but I might just be lucky.

          • @Virulent@reddthat.com
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            61 year ago

            That might be true for older cars that didn’t have good thermal management systems (like the old Nissan leaf) but not true anymore. Electric car batteries now regularly reach over 100k miles with only small degradation. If you baby it, it seems that 200k miles with only 10% range loss is to be expected now

          • BarqsHasBite
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            51 year ago

            No oil, timing belt, transmission. EVs are incredibly simple vehicles. Many years ago Tesla wanted a million mile battery, they are constantly getting better.

          • @proudblond@lemmy.world
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            41 year ago

            My EV is just over 5 years old and the battery is fine. I know it’s anecdotal but the batteries last longer than projected.

        • @AA5B@lemmy.world
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          31 year ago

          dedicated circuit installed with materials for the wire, breaker fuse, and conduit was $600 including electrician labor

          I live in a high cost of living area so getting my charger installed was quite a bit more. However, it was slightly less than the cost of the new range/oven circuit I also recently had done. So, I guess it’s as affordable as anything is here

      • @AA5B@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        the chargers aren’t standard. Each charging site has different plugs, apps you have to download, etc

        – US has 2.5 common plugs. An old one that’s mostly gone, the standard one, and Tesla. However Tesla opened theirs as a standard, and it looks like they will be de facto standard across the US

        – The protocols are compatible. The adapter for my Tesla to use the other standards is mostly plastic and dumb. You just need something to fit a different socket

        – yes, the state of apps sucks. Everyone wants to maximize their profit. However I thought most non-Tesla chargers had a credit card reader, so as long as you can find it and it works, you can use it without an app. Tesla is another story, but does seem t add a lot of convenience with their app

      • Echo Dot
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        51 year ago

        Yeah so I looked into this little while ago and I own my own house so in theory I can put the box in. The problem is I only have on the street parking and the house is set back away from the road and there’s a garden between the road in the house.

        So how the bleeding hell am I supposed to charge a car? I’d have to run a long cable through the garden, over the fence, over the pedestrian walkway, over the grass verge and to the car. Someone is going to trip over it and then think they can sue me.

        Or the government could just install a street furniture like they do parking metres, but I have no way to force them to do that.

        • @surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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          41 year ago

          Personally? I’d have an electrician install a standing charger by the curb. I might end up doing that if my wife switches to a plug in hybrid next year.

          I’m not sure how that’ll work with the easement though. But that’s future me’s problem.

        • @AA5B@lemmy.world
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          11 year ago

          Trench for an underground cable, and mount the charger on a pedestal near your car?

          I don’t know about other brands but a Tesla charger can whitelist VINs to only charger your vehicle

        • @abhibeckert@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          So how the bleeding hell am I supposed to charge a car? I’d have to run a long cable through the garden

          Personally I’d replace part of the garden with a driveway and parking space. Sure, it’s ugly. But it’s what billions of people around the world have.

          Or the government could just install a street furniture like they do parking metres, but I have no way to force them to do that.

          Most cities have a plan to do that (though it might just be a plan, with no funding allocated yet)… But there are challenges - in particular vandalism. They have been more successful/cheaper to maintain (and more likely to actually work when you park there) at locations with 24/7 security guards and quick police response times.

          They also prioritise short term daytime parking as it’s better to charge EVs when direct solar is available - far cheaper than other power source (except hydro, but hydro generally can’t produce enough power). And they prioritise somewhere like a shopping district where you might only park for 45 minutes allowing dozens of people to charger their car per day instead of just one overnight. Shopping districts are also setup to prevent vandalism as well (and prevention is cheaper than repairs).

          Every shopping mall in my city already has a parking spaces where you can charge an EV. In fact it’s often free (or at least, included in the price of parking at the mall). It works well enough but it’s never going to be as convenient as charging at home… those parking spaces are nearly always empty in my city, even though they’re free people would rather pay for the convenience of charging overnight.

          • Echo Dot
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            21 year ago

            Personally I’d replace part of the garden with a driveway and parking space.

            Well I don’t really want to have to do that if I can help it because if I did that I wouldn’t really have a garden anymore, but also I don’t think I can anyway because there’s a grass verge and I don’t think I own that, I think the city does, and I would have to pull that up to lay the driveway.

            But also if I rented I wouldn’t be able to do any of that anyway so they still need to go the street furniture route. I don’t think vandalisms are particular problem because if they put down load of them they just become common and people would ignore them. Also it’s a housing street, it’s not a random street in the city so the only people around here are people who live around here and vandalising your own stuff seems pretty dumb. I’m sure it’ll happen but I don’t think it’ll be a major problem.

            Every shopping mall in my city already has a parking spaces where you can charge an EV.

            In my experiences usually some prick with a pickup truck in them. Apparently it’s actually a offence to park in them if you don’t have an electric vehicle, but have yet to see the law enforce. One time I saw a cop parked in one so, there you go.

            • @AA5B@lemmy.world
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              11 year ago

              usually some prick with a pickup truck in them

              Yes, but like vandalism, the best answer may be ubiquity. The asshole in the truck can’t get a kick out of offending people if they simply ignore him and goto the next chargers

      • @acutfjg@feddit.nl
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        31 year ago

        Yep these are all true points, but not unexpected as with any innovation. Just like how computers were immensely expensive, and without standards for decades.

        EVs are relatively new in the scope of technology. Capitalism just wants to make you think it’s an issue. In reality this is gonna take time and lack the profits every company is striving for, which to them is a failure.

    • Altima NEO
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      1 year ago

      Yeah, I keep reading articles saying the same thing. Auto industry and dealers complaining EV sales are slowing down, yet as you said, it’s the fastest growing category.

      Of course profits aren’t as great now coming off that high during expensive fuel prices the last few years, COVID related shortages causing prices to skyrocket, etc. Not to mention inflation decreasing the value of people’s income.

    • @atrielienz@lemmy.world
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      41 year ago

      Automakers also rely on dealers to sell vehicles and the dealers often make most of their money from repairs and maintenance. More than half the maintenance for ICE vehicles is just non-existent on EV’s. Not a lot of stuff to do when you get your tires rotated and your brakes checked every 5000k miles.

  • @RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
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    921 year ago

    Mercedes: the EV market is challenging at the moment.

    Also mercedes: pay 100k for this car with limited autonomy and dubious software in early beta stages…

    • @NanoooK@sh.itjust.works
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      81 year ago

      Carmakers: (High) increase of the selling prices of all cars, gas/EV.

      Consummers: 20k for the simplest car, without options? No thanks, we can’t afford that

    • @Hubi@feddit.de
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      -91 year ago

      You can get an electric Benz way under 100k, probably half that. 100k is S-class pricing and it has always been this high.

      • @RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
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        321 year ago

        You made me check, the cheapest I can buy one here is 70k EUR for the EQA:

        EQA is the name of the new entry-level model to the all-electric world of Mercedes-EQ vehicles.

        What a bargain for an entry level model

        • @WallEx@feddit.de
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          151 year ago

          Huh, why is no one buying it? It’s so affordable. For the low low price of ones yearly income

          • zout
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            71 year ago

            Yearly income is less than 70k for most Europeans. In Denmark the average income is higher, but the rest of Europe is lower, average would probably be less than 40k.

            • @WallEx@feddit.de
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              61 year ago

              I know, it’s a joke. But it’s even more of a joke when the ev is double the yearly salery

    • @CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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      461 year ago

      More like:

      “We are grossly overcharging for our product and nobody is buying… Obviously nobody wants an EV!"

      • @tankplanker@lemmy.world
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        31 year ago

        The problem is that small cars are unpopular in the US, they are available in Europe but the majority would not buy them in the US. Once you make the car bigger it gets heavier and you need more battery to give it the same range as a small car, and as the battery is one of the most expensive components on an EV its going to boost the price quite dramatically.

        Europe has brand new EVs from £8k, but they are tiny city cars. Small hatchbacks are low £20ks now, and with the way finance works in Western Europe the monthly is not that much, starting at low £200 per month. Its not till you get to what would be a very large SUV in Europe do you start to get to the £1k+ mark per month, or what the US would call a mid sized SUV. That’s the penalty of demanding a 2.5 to 3 ton EV.

        Used you can pick up small hatchbacks from £5k now, but there just isn’t the availability of large cars (or US mid sized) to make the used market viable for those on smaller budgets.

        • @Pretzilla@lemmy.world
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          131 year ago

          Chicken and egg. US makers don’t offer small cars is why no one buys them.

          It’s because the profits are bigger for bigger cars, so yeah capitalism!

          • @tankplanker@lemmy.world
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            11 year ago

            If they would sell in decent numbers they would sell them as the manufacturer makes the most on new and nearly new cars that are still being sold/serviced by a main dealer, this is also capitalism.

            Once a cheap (ish) car hits a certain age the manufacturer makes diminishing amounts. In Europe they would rather sell you a brand new small car than you buy a used bigger car they will not make anywhere near a much on.

            If Musk delivers on the Model 2 for the US market then I think we will see some real movement in the US, but till then things like the VW Golf just do not sell. I think they sold 2.5m Golfs in total in the US, UK has around a million still on the road, a country with about 20% of the population.

              • @tankplanker@lemmy.world
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                01 year ago

                Somebody has one of those near me, its not actually that big, plus not all Yaris come as the crossover, at least in the UK. The crossover is 4.1m long and about 1.7m wide, its only 15cm longer and about 10cm wider than the standard Yaris, and again, optional.

                If you want properly small then get a Citroen Ami. Otherwise the Fiat 500e is about 3.5m long and 1.5m wide, this is the same as its always been, this is still noticeably smaller than a Golf mark 1 from the 70s.

          • @LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world
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            -51 year ago

            People have always hated small cars. They suck ass for families and I’m not sure where everyone forgot that. People did choose small cars, it’s what they could afford. Then for the last 7 years you could get basically free financing and it was suddenly affordable.

            The Honda Accord, the most popular sedan of the sentry is only 4 inches shorter in 95 than my 21 outback. 188 vs 191.5 inches.

            • @Pretzilla@lemmy.world
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              11 year ago

              Not everyone needs a big car to haul around a family.

              Anyway, families are so last epoch.

              They are nails in the climate coffin.

              This latest born generation is “generation last”, or so the moniker tag will say.

        • @iamtherealwalrus@lemmy.world
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          21 year ago

          Its not till you get to what would be a very large SUV in Europe do you start to get to the £1k+ mark per month, or what the US would call a mid sized SUV

          Driving a Mercedes EQB and paying ~£600 per month, due to banks here in Denmark making low interest car loans on EVs.

          • @tankplanker@lemmy.world
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            21 year ago

            Ah the joys of environmental subsidies.

            UK is particularly fucked at the moment for car loan pricing since Liz Truss massively accelerated interest rate rises they have become noticeably more expensive.

  • @Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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    631 year ago

    Typical misleading headline from pro-profiteering Business Insider on an article about how charging too much while people are suffering extreme inflation isn’t a great idea but the self-serving execs are blaming the very concept of an alternative to killing millions of people a year 🤬

  • @SK4nda1@lemmy.ml
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    611 year ago

    Bullshit. They make expensive electric cars because thats where the money was. Here in the eu tons of people want to drive electric, but at the prices they offer in this economy, they’ll only reach the wealthy.

    The only reason these “c level” directors and managers are coming out and saying this is because the easy money is gone and now they really have to innovate. Which is expensive.

    • @Pasta4u@lemmy.world
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      151 year ago

      In the usa the poor don’t really have anywhere to charge these cars even if they were cheap enough to afford.

      It is impossible to compete with a less than five minute fill up for 300+ miles range.

      Not to mention that reports place charging on public charges to be more costly than gas.

      • @CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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        111 year ago

        Poor people also can’t afford to buy brand new vehicles, so this is kind of a moot point, though something that will need to be addressed in the coming years.

        • @Pasta4u@lemmy.world
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          51 year ago

          Depend s in what you define poor. There is a huge segment of the population thay own leases vehicles that don’t own a home

          • @CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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            11 year ago

            Well I’m using the same designation of ‘poor’ as you were in the above comment. I’d say those with leased vehicles would definitely not fall into the category of poor.

            • @Pasta4u@lemmy.world
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              11 year ago

              Lots of people lease cars that they can’t afford and are basicly car poor. I was house poor when we bought our first house. Lots of low cost meals like pasta and bologna sandwiches so we could make payments while buying furniture and making repairs

              • @CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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                1 year ago

                Being car poor and house poor isn’t being poor.

                Home owners and/or people getting brand new cars every 2-3 years have decent incomes and if you fall into one of these two groups while considering yourself poor, it’s because you’re overspending not because you don’t have enough income to meet the bare minimum for survival. Those are the people who are poor.

                Furthermore, in your original comment you talked about poor people not having anywhere to charge their vehicle and now you’re telling me you meant homeowners who bought too much house for their income while also owning a brand new car? Give me a break. I’m sure you can find an extra $500 to have a charger installed.

      • @abhibeckert@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        In the usa the poor don’t really have anywhere to charge these cars even if they were cheap enough to afford.

        You mean to tell me “the poor” don’t have access to electricity? How poor are we talking exactly? Because I’m thinking enough money to spend, say, $30k on a brand new car… which is still pretty well off.

        I mean sure, if you live in a cheap inner city apartment, then you might not have a garage to park/charge in. But I bet a lot of people in that situation have access to public transit anyway - they’re not really the target market for cars in general.

        It is impossible to compete with a less than five minute fill up for 300+ miles range.

        Most people charge their EV overnight. It’d be even better to charge during the day though, when electricity (can be) cheaper thanks to solar power.

        Not to mention that reports place charging on public charges to be more costly than gas.

        Yeah you’re going to have to share a source for that. Sounds hard to believe.

        • @HeChomk@lemmy.world
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          111 year ago

          In the UK, public fast chargers are mostly around the 80p/kwh Mark. With a decently light foot and getting 4 miles per kwh, that’s 20p a mile. With gas at £1.55 a litre, and a 60mpg (UK) hybrid, that’s about 12p a mile.

          Home charging an ev on an appropriate tariff costs about 7p/kwh, or about 1.75p per mile.

          Public charging is fucking expensive.

        • magnetosphere
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          People who are barely making ends meet don’t usually buy new cars. They buy used. You can get something tolerable for a hell of a lot less than 30k.

          Plus, if you’re poor, there’s a good chance you live in a shitty (maybe unsafe) neighborhood. You might not have a driveway, never mind a garage. If you leave your car to charge overnight, you have to worry about some asshole unplugging it, or even taking/vandalizing the extension cord.

  • @assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world
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    511 year ago

    So we can start focusing on real solutions to climate change. Like building cities that don’t depend on cars for transportation. Right… right?

    • @Fisch@lemmy.ml
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      141 year ago

      It’s already hard to convince people to use EVs, convincing them to use public transportation is even harder. It’s completely understandable why they don’t want to use public transportation tho: it kinda sucks in most countries. Here in germany it’s simply unreliable. If you use it to get to work, you can expect to get there late quite frequently and the same goes for the way home. Fixing the issues public transportation has and making cities less car dependent takes time and we don’t really have that much anymore. EVs aren’t perfect but it’s a compromise.

    • @cybersandwich@lemmy.world
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      131 year ago

      If you want to talk about real solutions to climate change I wouldn’t aim as consumer facing things like cars or household recycling. That’s all BS to make people focus on what their role in it is to distract from the fact that the vast majority of emissions come from things like:

      Industrial and manufacturing processes Electricity and heat generation Transportation (with vast majority being bunker fueled chips, and agriculture.

      Me getting 25mpg versus 30 ain’t moving the needle on the emissions numbers the same way moving to renewables for electricity generation and eliminating shipping emissions would. Or mitigating agricultural emissions which produces tons of the worst kinds of greenhouse gasses (methan and nitrous oxide).

      And then we have fugative emissions from unintentional leaks or more accurately irresponsible processes and maintenance from things like fracking, oil/gas extraction and transport. Quite literally just drilling into gas and releasing it into the air.

      But yea, my Honda is the problem.

      I’m not saying everyone has a part to play, but don’t let the arguments and focus be on anything other than the big culprits of greenhouse gas emissions. We could pass meaningful regulations and provide meaningful incentives and actually move the needle on green house gasses.

      • @assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world
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        71 year ago

        Focusing on constructing transit oriented cities is a systems based solution to climate change. Not an individual consumer facing solution.

      • @abhibeckert@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Industrial and manufacturing processes Electricity and heat generation Transportation (with vast majority being bunker fueled chips, and agriculture.

        Unfortunately I don’t run an industrial manufacturing process or shipping company… so there’s not much I can do there other than prefer to buy products/services that involve fewer emissions.

        I’ve installed solar on my home… and some day I’ll probably add a battery (when they’re cheaper), but that’s about all I can do.

        So for me at least, this stuff isn’t a huge priority. I’m already doing everything I can.

        Me getting 25mpg versus 30 ain’t moving the needle on the emissions

        Huh? That’s almost a 20% reduction in your vehicle emissions and private transport is a major contributor to greenhouse gasses. It’d definitely “move the needle”.

        I’m not saying everyone has a part to play

        I am. Might be a small part for some, but it’s a part. It could be as simple as using LED lighting instead of incandescents (10x lower emissions, and 10x lower power bill) or cooking with induction instead of gas (4x lower emissions, boils water 2x faster, and cheaper though how much depends on your gas prices).

        Those two changes I suggested don’t even cost any money. They save money.

        A lot of other changes also save money - green hydrogen, for example, was $4/kg two years ago and is $3/kg today… it was projected to be cheaper than gas some time between 2027 and 2040… but thanks to Russia’s war it’s already cheaper than gas now in some parts of the world. Suddenly the industry is scrambling to accelerate that transition.

        The liquid natural gas industry has no long term future and not because of emissions - it’s just not going to be const competitive for much longer.

    • @Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca
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      31 year ago

      “building cities”

      Well, one can attempt to make it easier going forward but this isn’t sim city where you can just demolish your entire infrastructure and remake it to suit your needs.

      Doing so will take decades to even start to have an impact on personal vehicle usage. Decades we don’t really have.

      • @Virulent@reddthat.com
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        71 year ago

        We used to lift cities up to support sewer systems and now adding relatively simple infrastructure seems out of reach. Neoliberalism has completely ruined our ability to invest in public infrastructure

      • @assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world
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        01 year ago

        I’m not really saying it can be done overnight. But imagine if all the money (heck even half the money) that went into trying to build electric cars went into building some good transit systems supported by strong transit oriented design. It would have done way more to tackle climate change than making cars EVs. It’s a long term process but one that far more likely to make a difference than EVs.

    • R0cket_M00se
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      -11 year ago

      Great cities are handled, now how do we make rural areas work without cars?

      • @mriormro@lemmy.world
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        211 year ago

        Trade shipping is incredibly efficient when it comes to moving large quantities of goods. Transportation, as a whole, consumes about a quarter of the world’s energy output. Meanwhile industry verges on near 60%. A large portion of that is refining and manufacturing coupled with new construction.

        While I understand that people’s immediate reaction is that we need more EVs or, on the extreme end, somehow restrict cars. People also need to understand that’s not the sector that is going to have the most corrective impact on the coming climate disasters.

    • ripcord
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      131 year ago

      Sadly, they are. The median new car price in the US last year was $46k.

        • @AA5B@lemmy.world
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          21 year ago

          You would think, but the sad part it’s people over-extending themselves more for something they really can’t afford

  • @Yaztromo@lemmy.world
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    361 year ago

    I want an EV.

    I have the money for an EV.

    I put a down payment on an EV back in April 2022.

    It still hasn’t been ordered, because the manufacturer won’t permit the dealership to order any, and is barely shipping any to Canada, even though they advertise it as their flagship EV.

    Meanwhile, lots in the US are full of unsold units.

  • @j4k3@lemmy.world
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    341 year ago

    Maybe it is price. Maybe we all finally realized Musk is a right wing piece of shit, even worse than all the other corporate thieves.

  • KᑌᔕᕼIᗩ
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    271 year ago

    Kinda reminds me of the same argument to why businesses can’t find employees, they aren’t able to exploit them enough.

  • @vsis@feddit.cl
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    231 year ago

    EVs are expensive because of the battery.

    A cheap car is not a novelty, specially for asian manufacturers. There is no cheap EV because there is no cheap big ion-li battery.

    Toyota strategy of focus on hybrid and hydrogen seemed weird to me. But over the years has been started to make sense.

    The world needs a better battery. Until that, EVs will be heavy and expensive.

    • Hypx
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      31 year ago

      Hydrogen cars are basically EVs without the giant battery. So it neatly avoids the huge cost and weight problem. Which is why Toyota thinks they are the future.