- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
On May 5th, 1818, Karl Marx, hero of the international proletatiat, was born. His revolution of Socialist theory reverberates throughout the world carries on to this day, in increasing magnitude. Every passing day, he is vindicated. His analysis of Capitalism, development of the theory of Scientific Socialism, and advancements on dialectics to become Dialectical Materialism, have all played a key role in the past century, and have remained ever-more relevant throughout.
He didn’t always rock his famous beard, when he was younger he was clean shaven!
Some significant works:
Economic & Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844
The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte
Critique of the Gotha Programme
Manifesto of the Communist Party (along with Engels)
And, of course, Capital Vol I-III
Interested in Marxism-Leninism, but don’t know where to start? Check out my “Read Theory, Darn it!” introductory reading list!
Public ownership is certainly another key aspect, yes. The form that public ownership exists in necessitates large scale industry in order to achieve production of the global economy along a common plan, as it emerges from the foundations laid by Socialism, as Socialism emerges from Capitalism, Capitalism from Feudalism, and more, all the way back to tribal production.
No, you don’t need capitalism first in order to have communism. Turtle Island did communism without having capitalism first. Aren’t you paying attention? Don’t use assertions drag has already disputed as the basis for your arguments. You won’t convince drag that way, you’ll just wear drag out from repeating the same things over and over.
Try attempting to understand the entirety of drag’s argument, instead of bouncing between pieces of it and addressing them one at a time with the same old rhetoric.
You can’t address a unique and coherent argument by reading the counter to each part off your script.
I’ve already explained how tribal hunter/gatherer societies aren’t the Marxist conception of Communism as a post-Socialist and highly industrialized society. Turtle Island did tribal hunter/gathering, not post-Socialist highly industrialized Communism. Your argument is neither unique or coherent and tries to say both the society of Turtle Island and Star Trek are the same thing.
Drag likes The Culture better than Star Trek, and in drag’s opinion the economic ideology is the same: people do what needs to be done and look after each other.
Marx didn’t conceive of communism only as post socialist, nor as only industrialised. He was willing to admit Haudenosaunee were communists. You’re the one claiming he was restrictive about these things when you’ve already admitted he called it “primitive communism”. If Marx said primitive communism isn’t communism, show a quote, because that conclusion is the opposite of self evident. It’s extraordinary and requires extraordinary evidence.
You can’t get to the highly developed technological foundations of The Culture without developing into Star Trek first. A single and small society cannot develop the technology for it, a vast society is necessary to even make a helicopter.
Marx never “admitted” that the Haudenosaunee had a Primitive Communist system, it was accepted outright. That doesn’t mean it had the same society as what Marx advocated for, nor had a society that Marx saw as the historic destiny. The society of the Haudenosaunee did not have a society as Marx describes in Critique of the Gotha Programme:
Marx spoke of Primitive Communism as it needed to exist, and then gave birth to class society thereafter.
Indigenous tribes skipped Marx’s first phase and went straight to his higher phase. Exactly what Marx described happened, when early humans began organising themselves into communes instead of acting as troupes of apes. The productive forces increased alongside the development of the individual into modern homo sapiens, and all the springs of cooperative wealth flowed more abundantly. With the advanced social structures of communism, they were able to perform more technologically advanced forms of work with greater rewards, like hunting mammoths or building longhouses.
It’s the reverse, actually. Tribal hunter/gatherer societies are themselves the first Mode of Production, each paving the way for the next. Tribal societies worked out of necessity, and did not have a multiplication of productive forces, as they worked with tools and not large scale machinery that magnifies the productive labor of an individual. Further, each tribe only shared ownership over its own resources, not global humanity as a whole.
You can be an AnPrim if you want, but it’s overwhelmingly clear that you can’t be a Marxist AnPrim. You have to toss out the entirety of Historical Materialism, and simply hope that what has happened every time agriculture is discovered, that is, the creation of class society, somehow doesn’t happen this time.
Tools are force multipliers. Hunting game is several times easier with a spear, boomerang, or bow than with bare hands. Gathering firewood is easier with a stone or copper axe.
Drag isn’t an anprim. Remember that thing drag said about trying to understand the whole argument? Drag said primitive communism and industrial communism are the same communism. If drag doesn’t believe in a meaningful distinction, why would drag want to avoid industrialised communism? No, your assumption doesn’t make sense. It’s like you forgot our whole conversation and just responded to drag’s most recent message in isolation. You’re probably overworking yourself, having so many arguments all the time, and that’s why you can’t pay attention. Slow down, breathe, and read carefully. Try to empathise. Drag’s comments will still be here later. Try to get into fewer arguments so you can devote the proper attention to each one. It’s disrespectful to pay so little attention.
Spears, boomerangs, and bows are indeed force multipliers. Simple tools like those lasted for millions of years since inception, because they are the peak of hunting technology among tribal hunter/gatherer societies. These did not multiply and scale larger and larger into abundance, instead agriculture is discovered and class society and the division of labor emerges.
Tribal hunter/gatherer societies are not the same as global systems of highly industrialized production based on equal ownership across all of humanity. drag is calling a fish a tree, because both are alive, and is resorting to personal attacks because drag doesn’t have an actual argument. The qualifier “Primitive” in “Primitive Communism” and the lack of a qualifier for “Communism” as described in the above quote from Critique of the Gotha Programme alone tells us that these are not the same system.