Is it not obvious that this is the first half of a sentence and has been selectively edited to mislead?
I don’t have video of the Montana rally, but Sanders has talked about this issue repeatedly at the Fight Oligarchy rallies, and here is what he said in LA:
“Israel has the right to defend itself against terrorism, but it does not have a right to go to war against the entire Palestinian people… to kill 50,000 people, injure over 100,000 and destroy the entire infrastructure.”
“And as bad as that is, Trump wants to expel the 2.2 million people in Gaza in order to create a playground for his billionaire friends,” Sanders added, referring to Trump’s proposal to “take ownership” of the Gaza strip. “That is beyond insane, and we will never, never let that happen.”
Certainly, there are many who disagree with this half of the sentence, and that’s fine, but it should at least be presented with context.
Here is a link to the Montana Rally. The Israel statement begins at 1:19:00 for context.
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The correct response is to report as misinformation, not merely to block.
sticking your head in the sand when it comes to reality is the reason why we have trump in office.
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Democrats unwillingness to listen to their fellow Democrats costed the last election and will cost others
It is about the Hasbara talking point “Israel had the right to defend itself.” Nothing else. Bernie needs to stop inserting Hasbara disclaimers to both sides a genocide.
You’re so fucking insane with this talking point bullshit. What bernie said is a sentence that stands alone, not everyone is some loser slurping media 24/7 and declaring literal fucking plain english as some uniquely constructed sentence with an exact connotation.
Attack the idea and not the person.
“Israel has the right to defend itself” is the number one excuse used by Israel to commit genocide and the catchphrase Zionists insert in front of every single crime.
You should ask yourself why the UN rapporteur specifically addressed this point. https://youtube.com/shorts/ApnKGxawGfE
Person: “My opponent said ‘X’. Here’s why ‘X’ is wrong.”
You: “You need to stop saying X, Person!”
Person: ignores argument and tries to talk about something else
You: “We need change the topic because you are right but this post is inconvenient to my narrative”
I’m sorry, I actually can’t follow. Who ignored what argument? Where did I change the topic from what to what?
Go watch the video I linked first.
It does, but not the right to genocide. For FAR too long they’ve used his line to excuse crimes against humanity.
The argument is laid out in the article linked by InfustryStandard but the short of it is: As Gaza and rhe West Bank are Israeli-occupied territories, Israel doesn’t have the right under international law to defend itself via military action against groups from those territories, unlike if the attack had come from—say—Lebanon. What it does have the right to do is engage in counterinsurgency effort while guaranteeing the Palestinian people’s basic rights under international law. They’re directly responsible for the lives of any and all civilians in the territories, and don’t get to outsource that responsibility to Hamas.
This is an interesting concept I hadn’t heard before. I’m still pondering on it. Thanks for pointing it out.
In my country (USA) it would certainly be INSANE if USN started sending cruise missiles into Puerto Rico because some Puerto Ricans had done terror attacks.
Germany had a right to defend itself against Poland.
It does NOT have the right to defend itself. Please stop
They’re saying that any claim to a right to self-defense doesn’t apply here because Israel isn’t defending itself. Precisely because it’s the occupying force who’s committing genocide.
If Israel WERE under attack, it would obviously have the right to defend itself. But that doesn’t matter here.
Read the article. Even if it was truly under attack, it wouldn’t have the right to engage in military action like, say, Ukraine is against Russia. It has the right to engage in counterinsurgency after guaranteeing the basic rights of the population of Gaza. Cutting off food, water or electricity is obviously a no-go, and generally they don’t get to justify actions by “military advantages”. The limits are a lot more stringent and they’re not even pretending to meet them.
I have to admit, my mental capacity doesn’t do long articles today. That’s on me.
But yes, what they’re doing is not defending themselves. Is what I said (I think). I feel like we’re somehow talking past each other when we’re saying the same thing.
“Russian troops on Occupied Crimea have the right to defend itself against Ukraine”
This is your argument.
It really, really isn’t.
True the real comparison is “Nazi Germany has the right to defend itself against Poland”.
Which is also not what I said. At all.
It can claim self defense against STATES. Bernie specifically calls Hamas a “terrorist organisation” which he says Israel has the right to defend itself against. This is a lie.
Francesca Albanese perfectly explains why Israel does not have the right to self defense in this video
Mate (genderneutral). We’re saying the same thing. A right to self defence exists in principle but it does not apply in case of Israel’s war on Palestine. The right to self defence is besides the point. We’re in agreement.
Do you agree Bernie should stop saying it?
Not if in context it is obvious he’s replying to the claim and saying how it doesn’t apply. You cannot reply to a claim without repeating it in some form.
Good. This is about Bernie voluntarily saying it before he says Israel is not committing genocide.
Not directed at me but I’d like to add: Bernie is a politician trying to change minds. If he DIDN’T include that phrase or (worse) said they didn’t have the right, so so so so so many Americans would completely dismiss anything he had to say. Granted, many still will because of the socialist and Democrat label. Politics are very divided here and he’s trying to reach out to the other side.
He is on the side of the Palestinians. He has spoken out against this genocide many times. He wants to end the bloodshed.
Bernie is trying to change Liberals minds to support Israel and brainwash them into believe Israel has a right to self-defense. It appears to be working quite well.
Nobody wants to hear Hasbara disclaimers in front of speeches about Israel committing war crimes. Bernie needs to stop both-sidesing a genocide.
A lot of borders were rewritten as a consequence of wars throughout history. The initial Israel land was given to them by the victors of WW2. It’s legitimate. Get over it.
Their actions since to slowly and inhumanely drive out Palestinians in order to occupy more land for themselves are not.
Israel does have the right to defend itself, as any current country or region looking to protect itself. Their aggression beyond that self-defense is what should be stopped and punished.
Their actions since to slowly and inhumanely drive out Palestinians in order to occupy more land for themselves are not.
“slowly” you do realize the first thing Israel did upon their founding was the Nakba right?
Had that worked for them them, we wouldn’t be here today discussing current day genocides. So yes, “slowly”.
“Why did the Nazis invade Russia when they already conquered Poland?”
Because (drum roll please)
They are Nazis.
Yeah, I don’t get it. Nazis were set on European domination so of course they would have attacked Russia. Russia would have invaded them as well had the situation been reversed because they shared those ambitions, so I’m not seeing the point you’re trying to make.
It is not like Israel is actively ethnically cleansing and expanding in the West Bank for decades already. No sir. I do not get it.
This some fox-news level clipped bullshit that takes things severely out of context.
I’d just block OP. He only posts about Bernie and Israel, and not in good faith.
You might be interested in OPs post history:
“I a m terrorist .” source
Note, I used the equal level of honesty and editing for this quote of OP as OP did of the Sanders video in this thead, so OP should be fine with it.
Is this at one of the fight oligarchy rallies? Why did that even come up?
Classic Hasbara talking point is any discussion about Palestine must start with “Israel has the right to defend itself” which Bernie Sanders follows perfectly.
I agree that line has been used to justify abuses and atrocities by the Israeli government. But that’s not exactly what Bernie said.
This clip is literally “Israel, and the United States, and every other country has the right to defend itself from terrorism”. Not just Israel, and not defense against arbitrary things. It’s more specific than your cropped clip and comments suggest, and repeating a cherry-picked version makes you seem disingenuous.
OP only posts about Bernie and Israel, and in a way that is obviously manipulative. I’d just block and move on.
Normally that’s what I’d do. But I want this Progressive Politics channel to be a better place, and that requires calling out problems rather than ignoring them.
OP has a hate boner Bernie, and is either willfully ignorant or a shill. It’s his second post in as many days about this, and literally only posts about Israel.
Thank you Montana
Love to see USAmericans waking up.
Old age.
