Depends on you threshold but we have had it for a while
Getting to “choose” which pack of political racketeers gets to be the public face of capitalist looting and pillaging falls outside my threshold… which means that we’ve never had anything that can be called “democracy” with a straight face.
If we accept the liberals’ definition of democracy we might just as well accept the tankie’s definition of socialism, too - both are equally warped and vile.
If I were (as a thought exercise) to consider your metrics for democracy valid, I’d have to enquire as to what the point of democracy even is if it comes with fascism as a built-in feature - which, of course, is perfectly acceptable if we were to use your metrics.
And that’s before we even get into the nitty gritty of how your metrics of democracy solves the fundamentally violent and fundamentally irreconcilable incompatibility between democratic values and the capitalist mode of production.
Why are you mad at me? All I am saying is what we have right now is worse than what we had last year and I would like that back at the very least. I never said that what we had a year ago would solve all the problems or was the ideal government or the best form of democracy.
So we are just arguing over the definition of Democracy? I think we have to agree to disagree here. I don’t think I care enough to have a deep discussion with you about that.
Who said anything about anarchism? I’d be happy to just get democracy back.
When did we have democracy?
Depends on you threshold but we have had it for a while. No need to spend money on elections or news media if we didn’t have a democracy.
Getting to “choose” which pack of political racketeers gets to be the public face of capitalist looting and pillaging falls outside my threshold… which means that we’ve never had anything that can be called “democracy” with a straight face.
If we accept the liberals’ definition of democracy we might just as well accept the tankie’s definition of socialism, too - both are equally warped and vile.
Ok then, using your metrics we never had democracy. Using my metrics we had democracy, and I would prefer that to fascism.
But I also like stronger democracy. So if we can make improvements I’m all for it.
If I were (as a thought exercise) to consider your metrics for democracy valid, I’d have to enquire as to what the point of democracy even is if it comes with fascism as a built-in feature - which, of course, is perfectly acceptable if we were to use your metrics.
And that’s before we even get into the nitty gritty of how your metrics of democracy solves the fundamentally violent and fundamentally irreconcilable incompatibility between democratic values and the capitalist mode of production.
Why are you mad at me? All I am saying is what we have right now is worse than what we had last year and I would like that back at the very least. I never said that what we had a year ago would solve all the problems or was the ideal government or the best form of democracy.
Ummm… I’m not mad at you.
I’m trying to show you that you aren’t asking to get democracy back (because that’s something you never had).
What you are asking for is to have the “good cop” back - the very “good cop” that is right now busy handing you over to the bad one.
So we are just arguing over the definition of Democracy? I think we have to agree to disagree here. I don’t think I care enough to have a deep discussion with you about that.