Economic inequality breeds resentment and a desire to get even. That’s what fuels support for even incompetent regimes, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot
Beating our enemies by lying better to the public? No thanks.
I’d rather beat my enemies by being better then them and showing it, and simply breaking the ability of my enemies to lie.
Fox news, for example, should never have been allowed to be what it is today. A judge literally ruled that they don’t have to be factual. That right there was when things started going sideways. For the longest time, people laughed at Fox for being the bunch of mentally challenged idiots that they are and all the ridiculous lies they were spouting all day every day, but nobosy though of the influence it had. Nobody realized that there was a huge amount of people listening to these lies, all day, every day.
Fox news should be outlawed, and it’s pundits should literally be strung up in the streets for the harm they’ve caused. I don’t say that lightly, I would never say that about any journalist, or person, really, but these guys and gals are the cream of the crop, the Himmler of the 2000’s, they are the reason why millions of useful idiot sheep voted for trump.
Nobody, and then I mean NOBODY would have voted trump had they had access to actual factual news. Nobody would have walked in a pizza place with an assault rifle, demanding to see the non existent basement with the non existent children being not sacrificed. Some of it is conspiracy theories from Facebook (yet another player that should have been fined into a shallow grave) but a lot of this trash has been, and continues.to be spouted by fox news, oan, etc .
These are propaganda systems that should have been prohibited 30 years ago. Now its too late but better too late then never, i guess? Prohibit Fox news, prohibit news that is proven false, prohibit news made by political parties. We need journalists, we need good journalism, but it must be independent from political bias and influence.
We should get independent news organizations that are funded and monitored by independent foundations which get their money from the government. Each of these foundations should be monitored by yet another layer of independent foundations. They must, by law, report facts with ad little bias as possible.
Yeah and it’s not like behaving unlike your enemy ever back fired or anything.
This is the wrong direction. If it succeeds (it won’t), it will become the very thing you’re fighting now. Don’t think you can control it, you can’t. Come on dude, read some history, this happened time and again
Propaganda is very specifically lyit or telling half truths to mold your masses to support you. You can call it marketing, or anything else, but it’s evil and it’s what got us here in the first place. Two wrongs don’t make a right
Taking the high road is what got us into this mess. The heart and mind is a battlefield just like the physical battlefield and cyberspace. If you forfeit one front to the enemy you unnecessarily put yourself at a disadvantage in the war.
Propaganda is a weapon. In an ideal world we wouldn’t need weapons at all. But when an enemy is using a weapon against you–whether it is a spear, crossbow, gun, cannon, tank, nuke, or propaganda–you need to do one of two things:
Deploy a defensive solution to neutralize the weapon
Use the weapon yourself to even the battlefield
History is littered with examples of conflicts that were lost due to the inability to adapt to contemporary warfare. I’ve not aware of any feasible solutions to defend against propaganda. Many solutions would be deemed autocratic themselves (e.g., banning the sources of the propaganda, such as Fox News).
The “high road” solution would be to educate and deprogram the affected individuals. But deprogramming 10s of millions of people is a monumental undertaking, would likely take generations, and would be met with resistance the entire way. The logical conclusion for someone looking to improve the situation in their lifetime is to pursue (2) and deploy counter propaganda.
Left wing fascism is NOT the answer to right wing fascism
I get what you are trying to say, though I think it would be more accurate to phrase it as “left wing authoritarianism is not the answer to fascism” because “left wing fascism” is an oxymoron.
That said, I don’t think the use of propaganda by the left in a battle against the forces of chaos would inevitably lead to a left wing autocracy. But even if there was a chance it did, I would still prefer it to the certainty of a fascist takeover that comes from completely neglecting one of the war fronts. I imagine we would both agree that right wing propaganda has done massive damage to our society. Why would we let that continue unchecked?
Beating our enemies by lying better to the public? No thanks.
I’d rather beat my enemies by being better then them and showing it, and simply breaking the ability of my enemies to lie.
Fox news, for example, should never have been allowed to be what it is today. A judge literally ruled that they don’t have to be factual. That right there was when things started going sideways. For the longest time, people laughed at Fox for being the bunch of mentally challenged idiots that they are and all the ridiculous lies they were spouting all day every day, but nobosy though of the influence it had. Nobody realized that there was a huge amount of people listening to these lies, all day, every day.
Fox news should be outlawed, and it’s pundits should literally be strung up in the streets for the harm they’ve caused. I don’t say that lightly, I would never say that about any journalist, or person, really, but these guys and gals are the cream of the crop, the Himmler of the 2000’s, they are the reason why millions of useful idiot sheep voted for trump.
Nobody, and then I mean NOBODY would have voted trump had they had access to actual factual news. Nobody would have walked in a pizza place with an assault rifle, demanding to see the non existent basement with the non existent children being not sacrificed. Some of it is conspiracy theories from Facebook (yet another player that should have been fined into a shallow grave) but a lot of this trash has been, and continues.to be spouted by fox news, oan, etc .
These are propaganda systems that should have been prohibited 30 years ago. Now its too late but better too late then never, i guess? Prohibit Fox news, prohibit news that is proven false, prohibit news made by political parties. We need journalists, we need good journalism, but it must be independent from political bias and influence.
We should get independent news organizations that are funded and monitored by independent foundations which get their money from the government. Each of these foundations should be monitored by yet another layer of independent foundations. They must, by law, report facts with ad little bias as possible.
Use the tools that will work in the world we have. Not the world we wish we had.
Yeah and it’s not like behaving unlike your enemy ever back fired or anything.
This is the wrong direction. If it succeeds (it won’t), it will become the very thing you’re fighting now. Don’t think you can control it, you can’t. Come on dude, read some history, this happened time and again
Propaganda is just marketing for political ideology. Most people are unprincipled homunculi and need to have these ideas sold to them.
Yeah, no.
Propaganda is very specifically lyit or telling half truths to mold your masses to support you. You can call it marketing, or anything else, but it’s evil and it’s what got us here in the first place. Two wrongs don’t make a right
Taking the high road is what got us into this mess. The heart and mind is a battlefield just like the physical battlefield and cyberspace. If you forfeit one front to the enemy you unnecessarily put yourself at a disadvantage in the war.
Uh huh, and by becoming exactly like your enemy you expect to defeat how, how? By competing?
Do you really believe that IF this would turn people back that you’d stop? Nah, you’d go on exactly the same, be exactly the same.
Left wing fascism is NOT the answer to right wing fascism
Propaganda is a weapon. In an ideal world we wouldn’t need weapons at all. But when an enemy is using a weapon against you–whether it is a spear, crossbow, gun, cannon, tank, nuke, or propaganda–you need to do one of two things:
History is littered with examples of conflicts that were lost due to the inability to adapt to contemporary warfare. I’ve not aware of any feasible solutions to defend against propaganda. Many solutions would be deemed autocratic themselves (e.g., banning the sources of the propaganda, such as Fox News).
The “high road” solution would be to educate and deprogram the affected individuals. But deprogramming 10s of millions of people is a monumental undertaking, would likely take generations, and would be met with resistance the entire way. The logical conclusion for someone looking to improve the situation in their lifetime is to pursue (2) and deploy counter propaganda.
I get what you are trying to say, though I think it would be more accurate to phrase it as “left wing authoritarianism is not the answer to fascism” because “left wing fascism” is an oxymoron.
That said, I don’t think the use of propaganda by the left in a battle against the forces of chaos would inevitably lead to a left wing autocracy. But even if there was a chance it did, I would still prefer it to the certainty of a fascist takeover that comes from completely neglecting one of the war fronts. I imagine we would both agree that right wing propaganda has done massive damage to our society. Why would we let that continue unchecked?