I’ve thought about this before as well. If German communists succeeded, then there wouldn’t have been a WW2. The rest of Europe would’ve almost certainly become communists, and the US would not have become the superpower it is today. Instead, the workers in US would’ve likely overthrown capitalism as well following the example of Russia and Europe. We literally could’ve been living in the Star Trek future right now.
That’s a big If. These are Europeans we are talking about. Theres a reason they supported fascism then, and theres a reason so many Americans support it now. Theyre imperialists to their core. Committing violence against others to profit off them is normalized for them. You can’t just undo centuries of colonialism just like that. Sure there will always be some people who see the light so to speak, but the majority of even the proletariat in these imperialist nations are very reactionary, and will always support fascism over socialism.
Thats why its necessary to dismantle the imperialist systems they benefit from first. They’ll all collapse into fascism, turn their colonial violence inwards, and then after that collapse process ends they will be ready for socialism.
When a nation becomes organized in such a way that it is propped up by extractive violence via colonialism and imperialism it will always seek to do so more and more. This process won’t end until its inevitably turned inward. Or in rare cases where its disrupted by some powerful outside force. The turning inward is the fascist stage. Thats my take on it anyway.
I’m gonna take a guess the stray downvote to your analysis is some European taking offense and to that I say, obviously this sort of thing doesn’t apply to every one at all times as individuals. As I see it, it’s a broad take on material conditions and how those influence people as a whole, not a condemnation of every European individual. But I don’t speak for you obviously.
ya like i said theres exceptions to everything. But when you have a centuries old societal tradition of colonialism that gets engrained into the culture. Its not like genetic. Its the conditions they exist in. It takes a lot of effort, and usually luck to not fall into that reactionary mindset when your born into those conditions.
I mean, Russia was an imperialist and settler-colonial country back then, and they still became the USSR. We’re talking about right after the First World War, which radicalized many workers even in imperialist nations.
Russia’s revolution was led by peasants. The Russian situation vs the rest of Europe was very different. The Russians who led the Russian revolution were not benefiting from colonialism, and in some cases were themselves the colonized people. As Russia conquered lands nearby rather than having far flung colonies. A colony of a European power has socialist potential (Think Vietnam) and Russia while it did engage in imperialism and colonialism did not have a revolution led by the people who benefit from those systems. Its a very different situation.
The US was able to develop nukes because a bunch of German scientists fled there and the war provided the justification for running a massive nuclear research program.
I’ve thought about this before as well. If German communists succeeded, then there wouldn’t have been a WW2. The rest of Europe would’ve almost certainly become communists, and the US would not have become the superpower it is today. Instead, the workers in US would’ve likely overthrown capitalism as well following the example of Russia and Europe. We literally could’ve been living in the Star Trek future right now.
That’s a big If. These are Europeans we are talking about. Theres a reason they supported fascism then, and theres a reason so many Americans support it now. Theyre imperialists to their core. Committing violence against others to profit off them is normalized for them. You can’t just undo centuries of colonialism just like that. Sure there will always be some people who see the light so to speak, but the majority of even the proletariat in these imperialist nations are very reactionary, and will always support fascism over socialism.
Thats why its necessary to dismantle the imperialist systems they benefit from first. They’ll all collapse into fascism, turn their colonial violence inwards, and then after that collapse process ends they will be ready for socialism.
When a nation becomes organized in such a way that it is propped up by extractive violence via colonialism and imperialism it will always seek to do so more and more. This process won’t end until its inevitably turned inward. Or in rare cases where its disrupted by some powerful outside force. The turning inward is the fascist stage. Thats my take on it anyway.
This analysis makes a lot of sense to me, well said.
I’m gonna take a guess the stray downvote to your analysis is some European taking offense and to that I say, obviously this sort of thing doesn’t apply to every one at all times as individuals. As I see it, it’s a broad take on material conditions and how those influence people as a whole, not a condemnation of every European individual. But I don’t speak for you obviously.
ya like i said theres exceptions to everything. But when you have a centuries old societal tradition of colonialism that gets engrained into the culture. Its not like genetic. Its the conditions they exist in. It takes a lot of effort, and usually luck to not fall into that reactionary mindset when your born into those conditions.
That is very true as well. The imperialism does a lot to prop up support for capitalism in the west.
I mean, Russia was an imperialist and settler-colonial country back then, and they still became the USSR. We’re talking about right after the First World War, which radicalized many workers even in imperialist nations.
Russia’s revolution was led by peasants. The Russian situation vs the rest of Europe was very different. The Russians who led the Russian revolution were not benefiting from colonialism, and in some cases were themselves the colonized people. As Russia conquered lands nearby rather than having far flung colonies. A colony of a European power has socialist potential (Think Vietnam) and Russia while it did engage in imperialism and colonialism did not have a revolution led by the people who benefit from those systems. Its a very different situation.
I wonder if in that timeline Portugal would’ve been able to turn Communist after the Carnation Revolution…
🤔
I see a massive nuclear war in this scenario.
The US was able to develop nukes because a bunch of German scientists fled there and the war provided the justification for running a massive nuclear research program.