My husband says yay, I say nay. What are your thoughts?
Depends on your rationale.
If it’s to avoid all animal products no matter what, then it’s not, because it’s an animal product.
If it’s to avoid exploitation of animals, than it is, because it’s given willingly.There are definitely moments when I don’t want to breastfeed, but I still do because I think it’s best for the baby, it’s free, and it requires no washing up of bottle parts. In those moments, I’m not being forced, but I’m not 10000% willing either. Still vegan at those times?
You have free will. Animals giving us milk do not.
I’m curious where this question is coming from. Why does it matter whether you attach the label “vegan”?
I’m not vegan so just wondering what is what.
In that case, I’ll try and answer: I think that for 99.999% of vegans the question wouldn’t even occur to them. Veganism is about avoiding hurting animals for food, not about human breastfeeding practices. The question seems bizarre.
I’ve known a handful of folks who abstain from animal products for religious reasons. One or two did not breastfeed because they view any food produced by/in any body as tainted. Ital eating–but hyper restrictive. They never referred to their practices as veganism, but there is that “don’t eat animal products” overlap.
I thought some vegans don’t consume animal products because they think they are unhealthy, not because of the suffering associated with it, but like I said in other comments, I really don’t know much about veganism, but am open to it.
So you still out of your own free will decide to give milk to your kid. It’s not as if your husband pins you down and forces you to give milk to your kid… You might not enjoy it, but nothing is stopping you from not giving it.
Use some common sense…
I’m not vegan. I don’t know how members of the community view the boundaries of consent, etc.
If someone performed a sexual act out of obligation rather than enthusiasm, I’d wonder about consent. That’s why I asked.
That’s why I said it matters what your criteria is.
To me, it is. You’re not being forced or coerced, you’re just not enthusiastic about what you chose.A moral system that doesn’t allow people to feed their children is broken.
I’ve always viewed consent as the dividing line.
If someone freely gives away their breastmilk then it’s vegan. If it’s taken through some kind of exploitation then it’s not, even if someone agreed to be milked. A person who is forced to sell their breast milk to pay rent is not selling a vegan product, for example.
Would you say that if someone breastfeeds because they feel pressured by society to do so, the milk is no longer vegan?
I think the nature of the pressure matters, but certainly there are coercive and non vegan pressures on people who choose to breastfeed. It’s gotta be free choice, which is a dicey prospect in an unfree society 😔
Thank you for understanding what I was getting at. I’m not vegan but I’m considering it. Some of the responses I’ve gotten make me feel like there isn’t a lot of community support for new converts.
Either you want to breastfeed or you do not and the question ends there and then.
The baby depends solely on you for food, warmth and connection. It’s a biological imperative. You either provide or you don’t.
Debating if a fluid your own body produces to fullfil the needs of another life you - hopefully! - willing and actively created is anything but nonsensical.
Relax. It’s just a thought experiment.
Thought experiments are designed to provoke thoughts, some of which are bound to disagreeable.
It’s a yes or no question. Either it is vegan and why or it is not vegan and why. You gave a third answer for a question that wasn’t asked.
The question is non sensical and meaningless and an exercise of stupidity.
But to be true to your remark: none.
😳 I’m not vegan, but I am open to it. I don’t know a ton about veganism, other than the basic “Don’t consume animal products.”
Sorry for asking questions.
Never apologize for questioning.
When I replied your question directly I did it after reading the entire thread and every interaction you already had.
Neither me nor anyone is in a place to tell you what to do or think, so my answer was cut down to tangible facts.
Your child depends on you, solely, for food, warmth and protection. If you do not feel at ease with breast feeding, that is up to you. Why I do not need to know nor anyone else. What you should keep in mind is that your child does not judge you nor it pays any consideration to trivialities like you posed in your question. Your baby trusts you fully and absolutely.
If breast milk is vegan or not, as a question, to my understanding, is an exercise in stupidity.
You, as an individual, a person, a human being, are not stupid.
Personally speaking, breast feeding will always be better than providing synthetic formula. Unless a mother has any impedement to do so, it’s the best source of nourishment for a child. Formula is normally produced from cow milk, highly processed, and “fortified” with so much additives it should be considered a chemical product, not food stuff.
I think the point of veganism is to reduce harm and exploitation. Is the person willingly giving milk in the situation? Are they being exploited in any way related to the milk? If no, then it’s vegan.
The same question could be raised for other human products - like human hair wigs. If the person happily donated the hair, then I’d consider it vegan.
If it’s acquired in fair and consensual circumstances, then I think it’s vegan. But breastmilk is made to nourish newborns and it wouldn’t be vegan for anyone but the newborn to consume most of the breastmilk
I agree. It’s the same with cows, the milk is produced for calves. And with humans the milk is produced for the newborns and contains a lot of important nutrients and such.
Oh that’s an interesting wrinkle. It’s vegan if consumed by the infant for whom it was made (or willingly donated).
What if I sell my milk to a body builder just so I have a little pocket money? Not an exorbitant amount of milk or money, and it’s something I willingly do without any coercion. Vegan then?
What if I sell my milk to a body builder just so I have a little pocket money?
As long as you’re doing it of your own free will without taking it away from your child, yes, probably. There is consent involved.
But if your breast milk gets mixed into a batch that was produced from selected specimens who produce extraordinarily high volume of milk, impregnated with their babies taken away, tied to machines and milked in filthy conditions, kept alive by being fed antibiotics every day… Yeah you get me.
Human milk could have potential to be more ethical than any other milk.
Hyperlactation happens in human beings, as well as another condition where lactation is locked as a permanent bodily function.
It can be extremely painful and regularly extracting the fluid is the best way to relieve the pressure. Medication can help but events where the lactation process re-emerged have happened.
Lactation can also be triggered without need for impregnation in humans.
I have no idea if that’s vegan or not, and honestly, no opinion on it’s veganitudiness, but I’m curious… Is this a thing? Do bodybuilders buy and consume human milk?
Some will because of street legends around breast milk being more protein rich and easy to assimilate than other proteins. Essentially false but keeping with the vein: the more brawn, the less brain.
That is… Disturbing. It’s so easy to access information, why would you drink someone’s breast milk without doing the research first? >.<
Brawn, not brains.
It’s a strange concept to approach but there are worst things in the world.
Unless the drinker is allergic to milk, it’s safe. For a lactating woman it is also safe.
I can’t see any harm coming to the world by this practice.
I asked my vegan friend if they “swallow” and they said yes, because there was consent to do so. I’d go as far to extend that logic to breast milk being vegan too
If the former was for pleasure and is vegan, then surely the latter for nourishment is also vegan too. With the basis that both were consensual
I hadn’t considered that particular substance. Would this make donated blood a vegan product?
From human to human? The sole purpose is to reduce animal (human) suffering. It is done willingly.
Isn’t the point of veganism that animals cannot consent and so it’s wrong to benefit from their labour. A human woman can consent to have her breastmilk harvested and drank, so then yes, it is vegan.
I knew a vegan activist who breastfed her kid so I figure from that, it is ok.
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This thread would be removed from https://lemmy.ca/c/veganism
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !veganism@lemmy.ca
Why is that? I’m not vegan but it’s something I’m considering. This is my first attempt to connect with a vegan community. Might be my last 😕
Because it wildly misunderstands the most very basic concepts of what veganism even is. Veganism has nothing to say about human breast milk or the ethical practices concerning it, just like it has nothing to say about bridge building, musical theory, or 1980s late night television.
Post like this are helpful to people who are not vegans and are trying to figure out the absolute basics so that they can even begin to have a conversation. They are not useful to vegans, and in fact they are quite aggravating to a lot of us. You are simply not equipped to “connect with a vegan community” until you have done your basic due dilligence.
!veganism@lemmy.ca is here to cater to vegans, not people who are curious about vegans and want to interrogate them about things that they could much more easily discover from the first paragraph of a Wikipedia article. Differentiating communities is useful.
If you want to keep harming animals, then “vegans were mean to me” will sound like a reasonable justification to do that.
!veganism@lemmy.ca is here to cater to vegans, not people who are curious about vegans and want to interrogate them about things that they could much more easily discover from the first paragraph of a Wikipedia article
Originally, this was this community’s intent too. The rules in the sidebar are willingly shallow about this kind of posts because at some point we decided not to be too strict with submissions, considering that there wasn’t that much activity and the mods were mostly afk . So posts like this are tolerated unless they become an omnis cicrclejerk/backpatting fest
No disrespect. Like I said, differentiation is useful. There’s always going to be a “big tent” community that has to straddle between mainstream culture’s idea of veganism and actual veganism. And it’s probably going to be bigger and more successful than a more curated community. I just want a place to go to escape my throbbing vystopia.
What are your thoughts?
I think the question is banal. Either that you haven’t explained enough context to understand the question.
