• UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      This is the most offensive and derogatory form of ableism. I’m reporting this and I’m tagging you as “Person who hates the disabled” and I am not going to spend even a moment thinking about how mass transit or pedestrian pathways might benefit an individual with mobility issues.

      • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        See your comment brings up the big issue I have with the bicycle crowd. I literally cannot ride a bike due to disability , so ride transit right? If my city had a good and reliable transit system i fucking would! But it doesn’t, and it never fucking will. So yes I will give up the car and take transit every day, when pigs fly and my city has a good transit system.

        Your way of thinking relies on the belief that transit is adequate in most places, and it sure as hell is not

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          If my city had a good and reliable transit system

          That is what is being argued for.

          it never fucking will

          Urban landscapes change regularly. US metropolises used to be significantly more mass transit friendly, and it took billions of dollars and millions of man hours to ruin them over the course of decades. You aren’t trapped in a historical moment forever, you’re riding the tide of history just like the rest of us.

          Your way of thinking relies on the belief that transit is adequate in most places

          My way of thinking relies on the belief that people being reflexively hostile to bicycles degrades future bicycle infrastructure development.

          I’m seeing this happen in my home city of Houston, as the current mayor rips out a bunch of newly built bike lanes and bike-share racks because he’d rather the money go towards roadway expansion and policing. $10M/year transferred from bike development to resurfacing roadways of his friends and political allies, so he can tell me that people with mobility issues are best served by River Oaks getting a new coat of varnish.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              6 days ago

              My neighborhood doesn’t have that problem. You’ll see regular big rides with dozens - even hundreds - of riders spilling down the protected lanes.

              Nobody rides on the sidewalks if they can avoid it. Where do you live that the sidewalks are even maintained? Around here they’re a jagged mess.

    • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      Lemme strap my wife and kids to my back while I cycle them all to their destinations then head off to work 50km away in the dead of winter!

      Bicycle people have no brain, they think everyone lives in California or some shit

      • Tudsamfa@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Elon’s commenter: “Trains!”

        Elon defender: “But what about groceries?”

        The comment you replied to: “Bikes!”

        You, for some unknowable reason: “But what if I need to travel 50km to work, see bike people have no brain”

        You take a train for that, obviously! You just take bike for anything shorter than 2 - 5km, maybe E-bike if you need/want it, Bus and Metro lines should get you anywhere in your city. And before you ask, if all stations are too far to walk, you bike there. If all of these don’t work for you, then you can drive a car on clear roads, because everyone who doesn’t need to drive doesn’t.

        “But there are no good bicycle paths/Light rail lines/public transit stations where I live!” Yes, what I said is unrealistic to do in most cities. But we can work towards it, and that starts by getting the people that can use bikes on bike paths, and the people that can take the train on train lines.

  • perfectly_boiled_pizza@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    I do this with light rail. Takes 6 minutes with slow walking included. It’s pleasant.

    Especially in the winter. I live in Norway, so if I use a car I wait for the engine to warm up before driving. (It’s better for the engine.) This and removal of ice and snow easily takes more than 6 minutes. I’m really glad I don’t have a car.

      • perfectly_boiled_pizza@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        I completely understand that owning a car can be necessary for someone, but since I’m lucky enough to have access to good public transit a car just doesn’t make any sense for me.

        It’s MANY times as expensive, the car requires maintenance/repair and driving requires me to be focused and well rested.

        Even with zero sleep, a headache, icy roads, a beer in my stomach and lots of stress, I can safely get where I need to go and I don’t even have to think about parking when I get there. I can even listen to music or a podcast on really low volume with closed eyes. I hope that more people get access to good public transit.

        For a society in the long run public transit is also cheaper per passenger than cars. The difference in cost efficiency grows the more densely populated an area is. Statistically most people on Lemmy live in a more densely populated area than me, so you can probably demand this from your government. Y’all would end up saving money.

  • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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    6 days ago

    You walk to the fucking grocery store. I know it sounds wild but we have legs so we can use it.

    • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
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      5 days ago

      That doesn’t work if the grocery store is too far to walk or for larger grocery hauls (which often go hand in hand - the further away, the fewer trips you’ll want to make). I’ve been told that some places just genuinely don’t have a grocer within 20min walking distance, because some construction planning apparently prefers huge zones of housing without any kind of commercial usage allowed - no baker, no grocer, no hairstylist, no doctor - making it effectively impossible to have any of those amenities in range.

      Obviously, that is a planning issue and ought to be fixed. You’ll have to contend with NIMBYs, but you’d have to do that with any changes anyway. Alternatively or additionally, you could install a usable network of bus lines and trams (though they shouldn’t be run for profit, so it’ll be a tough sell too).

      There is also the issue of accessibility, but I think that would be trivial to solve as a side effect: If the streets are less crowded with cars, it’s easier to offer special accommodation for people with limited mobility or anxiety issues.

      • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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        5 days ago

        Bikes are faster than walking and you can attach a trailer. I know a lot of people do that in denmark. Suddenly your cargo capacity is larger than a lot of cars, of course not for weight. As for people with mobility issues, where i live they have a dedicated branch of the public transit for them. On train you can go with wheelchair and if you need extra help in the city they can send you someone with minibuss to help you. Same if youre not in a wheelchair but limited because of your age. Of course these arent cheap to solve but putting out the la fires that were caused by global warming that was in part caused by cars isnt cheap either.

        • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
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          4 days ago

          Bikes are faster than walking

          …but put me at a higher risk of hurting myself because I’m bloody clumsy (impaired balance and coordination). Joke aside, good point.

          As for people with mobility issues, where i live they have a dedicated branch of the public transit for them. On train you can go with wheelchair and if you need extra help in the city they can send you someone with minibuss to help you. Same if youre not in a wheelchair but limited because of your age.

          That is awesome!

          Of course these arent cheap to solve

          In the short term, no, it’s probably an expensive project. But in the long term, even aside from environmental impact, I think it would save money.

          Just not for the car manufacturers… Those poor, poor billionaires will need to find a different income I guess.

  • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    These “take a train” crowd think that everyone in every city and every town has a subway system or even a functional bus system. It’s like the bicycle people who insist that I don’t need a car, I can just strap my kids to my back in winter and drop them off at school before cycling to work and stopping for errands and groceries on the way home! So easy! /s

    If I didn’t NEED a car I wouldn’t drive one, and that applies to most people. But for some reason everyone on here is a 20something city kid with easy access to public transit

    • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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      7 days ago

      “These ‘take a train’ crowd” tend to be also the ones saying “build more trains, light rail, and tram lines, also bike lanes” but who are prevented from making progress at every turn by oil and motor lobbyists. They are very aware of the limitations but generally encourage it because it’s a good thing to do.

  • Rhaedas@fedia.io
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    8 days ago

    Many cities at one time had trolley service which did local point to point connection. Then they were forced out because there was more profit in growing car dependency.

      • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
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        8 days ago

        Shopping trolleys have grown in popularity in Sweden in recent years, sort of like a rolling suitcase but with more space, specifically made for grocery shopping.

        Personally, I use a pannier basket on my bike though. Best way to shop for sure

        • naeap@sopuli.xyz
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          8 days ago

          In Austrian cities we see an increase of cargo bikes

          Car drivers hate them, but in the city you’re much faster with a bike anyway

        • Rickety Thudds@lemmy.ca
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          8 days ago

          I love shopping trolleys… But avoid the ones with multiple wheels for climbing stairs, they’re loud as hell on pavement.

      • Golden Lox@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        no im obese and entirely brainwashed that walking is detriemntal to my health or smth idfk

        societal constraints hold back the minds of those who are lazy to change

    • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
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      8 days ago

      That’s literally communism and also the cause of everything wrong with the economy, that’s why!

      • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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        7 days ago

        My township is going through this

        Vandalism, threats, people screaming in public, and so on; all afraid that the new area being built having stores within walking distance is a government conspiracy to restrict people’s ability to leave

        …all the existing parts of town have grocers and shops within walking distance

        • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
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          5 days ago

          Oh, they’re putting up road barriers? No? Are they taking away cars? Also no? Do the new shops create so much traffic that it’s just not feasible to leave? Also no?

          Then how the hell are they restricting anything?

          conspiracy

          Oh right. I forgot what type of people we’re dealing with.

          My condolences, best wishes and hopefully justified congratulations!

  • Drusas@fedia.io
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    8 days ago

    The best is when the grocery stores are so close that you don’t need a car or a train. Japan does it right. You can always walk to at least one grocery store.

    • logicbomb@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      True enough for urban areas.

      There’s also a lot of more rural areas in Japan where the only thing in walking distance from a house is a bus stop, and it might be a bit of a long walk.

      I’m sure there are more remote places, but I haven’t been to those places.

      • ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        I think the important part is that the Japan residents know it is possible once the town or city grows vs here in North America where people cannot fanthom the idea of not having a car (or in the US and Canada 1 car per person on the home).

        I am privileged since I have been able to work from home recently, but it is so clear that you don’t need a car if non-work things were closer (better zoning and design roads for people instead of cars). Once you put 1k miles per year on your car instead of 10-20k and your quality of life is much higher due to no stress from having to commute it starts to radicalize you against into the dumb shit we do in the name of growth and profit (not violently but still makes you feel cheated out of a better life).

    • josefo@leminal.space
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      8 days ago

      It’s not only Japan, I dare to say most countries have grocery stores within walkable distances.

    • Zement@feddit.nl
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      8 days ago

      In socialist Europe, I walk to the groceries, comrade… I take 15min train ride from home to work in the city center… and I wait no longer than 5 minutes on train because that’s its frequency… but I have no car…

      • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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        7 days ago

        Probably, I mean it makes sense. The few times I’ve been in Europe, in the many cities I’ve been, the public transit was good.

  • Philharmonic3@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    It’s actually called zoning reform. Bring back neighborhood grocery stores you can walk to. Before I experienced it, I never thought about how convenient it is to walk less than 5 minutes to a grocery store almost every day and do little grocery trips instead of bit multi-bag struggles.

    • booly@sh.itjust.works
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      8 days ago

      Bring back neighborhood grocery stores you can walk to.

      This is actually probably more a federal antitrust/competition law thing than a local zoning thing. Otherwise it wouldn’t have happened nationwide. I found this article to be pretty persuasive:

      Food deserts are not an inevitable consequence of poverty or low population density, and they didn’t materialize around the country for no reason. Something happened. That something was a specific federal policy change in the 1980s. It was supposed to reward the biggest retail chains for their efficiency. Instead, it devastated poor and rural communities by pushing out grocery stores and inflating the cost of food. Food deserts will not go away until that mistake is reversed.

      . . .

      Congress responded in 1936 by passing the Robinson-Patman Act. The law essentially bans price discrimination, making it illegal for suppliers to offer preferential deals and for retailers to demand them. It does, however, allow businesses to pass along legitimate savings. If it truly costs less to sell a product by the truckload rather than by the case, for example, then suppliers can adjust their prices accordingly—just so long as every retailer who buys by the truckload gets the same discount.

      . . .

      During the decades when Robinson-Patman was enforced—part of the broader mid-century regime of vigorous antitrust—the grocery sector was highly competitive, with a wide range of stores vying for shoppers and a roughly equal balance of chains and independents. In 1954, the eight largest supermarket chains captured 25 percent of grocery sales. That statistic was virtually identical in 1982, although the specific companies on top had changed. As they had for decades, Americans in the early 1980s did more than half their grocery shopping at independent stores, including both single-location businesses and small, locally owned chains. Local grocers thrived alongside large, publicly traded companies such as Kroger and Safeway.

      With discriminatory pricing outlawed, competition shifted onto other, healthier fronts. National chains scrambled to keep up with independents’ innovations, which included the first modern self-service supermarkets, and later, automatic doors, shopping carts, and loyalty programs. Meanwhile, independents worked to match the chains’ efficiency by forming wholesale cooperatives, which allowed them to buy goods in bulk and operate distribution systems on par with those of Kroger and A&P. A 1965 federal study that tracked grocery prices across multiple cities for a year found that large independent grocers were less than 1 percent more expensive than the big chains. The Robinson-Patman Act, in short, appears to have worked as intended throughout the mid-20th century.

      Then it was abandoned. In the 1980s, convinced that tough antitrust enforcement was holding back American business, the Reagan administration set about dismantling it. The Robinson-Patman Act remained on the books, but the new regime saw it as an economically illiterate handout to inefficient small businesses. And so the government simply stopped enforcing it.

      That move tipped the retail market in favor of the largest chains, who could once again wield their leverage over suppliers, just as A&P had done in the 1930s. Walmart was the first to fully grasp the implications of the new legal terrain. . . . Kroger, Safeway, and other supermarket chains followed suit. . . . Then, in the 1990s, they embarked on a merger spree. In just two years, Safeway acquired Vons and Dominick’s, while Fred Meyer absorbed Ralphs, Smith’s, and Quality Food Centers, before being swallowed by Kroger. The suspension of the Robinson-Patman Act had created an imperative to scale up.

      A massive die-off of independent retailers followed. Squeezed by the big chains, suppliers were forced to offset their losses by raising prices for smaller retailers, creating a “waterbed effect” that amplified the disparity. Price discrimination spread beyond groceries, hobbling bookstores, pharmacies, and many other local businesses. From 1982 to 2017, the market share of independent retailers shrank from 53 percent to 22 percent.

      The whole thing is worth reading.

      • trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        It’s definitely both.

        If you can’t have smaller grocery stores in neighborhoods due to zoning laws, what will be left is bigger stores which are going to be generally operated by large corporations.

        • booly@sh.itjust.works
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          8 days ago

          That would only explain the phenomenon in urban areas that actually have zoning. Rural areas are suffering from the same thing, but don’t have zoning restrictions, so obviously that points to another cause.

        • avattar@lemmy.sdf.org
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          8 days ago

          It sounds like he knew what he was doing, and it worked as intended. “Holding back American businesses” indeed.

      • TheSambassador@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Thanks for sharing the article! It was very informative. I’m definitely going to remember it as the Robert pattinson law though.

    • Bosht@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      Would probably help with remembering reusable bags too. Instead of driving there and being like ‘oh no!’ you’re walking, and would realize you’re not carrying them with you.

    • Worx@lemmynsfw.com
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      7 days ago

      I’m fine going to the supermarket for a medium shop every week or two but being able to walk to get milk for my breakfast (especially if I only realised I’d ran out in the morning!) was so nice.

      Now I don’t live in town any more, it’s an 11-mile drive to the nearest shop so it’s more like a once a month shopping trip. Fresh fruit and veg? What’s that?

  • friend_of_satan@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    Trains also work to get other traffic off the road too. It solves congestion for everybody, not just you. That way when you do have to drive a car, there are fewer of them on the road.

  • tiredofsametab@fedia.io
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    8 days ago

    If you have to take a train to the grocery, that’s a failure in local planning and a business opportunity. That said, not every store has everything and I, too, have taken a train to the grocery store for fancier/rarer things.

    In some parts of rural Japan, we also have a grocery truck carrying staples and things you requested the last time they came from the actual store. This is a huge lifeline to some rural elderly people, but I don’t see why it couldn’t be more broadly applied in other areas.

    • reev@sh.itjust.works
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      8 days ago

      We just have food delivery. You order and it arrives the next day, no delivery fee. Of course the sales usually aren’t as good as in typical stores but the general prices are almost identical. They deliver in cute little electric vehicles.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
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      8 days ago

      I had two grocery stores in 5 minute walking distance. I had one store with more stuff, think also basic electronics, kitchenware, home appliances etc, in one station with the inner city train that was a 5 minute walk from my flat.

      For years i did my groceries taking the train and i fail to see the problem. Just having to walk to the parking lot, get my car, drive to the store i can reach by train, then park there would have taken me twice as long even without traffic.

      In inner cities cars are a liability for everyone including their driver.

    • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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      8 days ago

      If the frequency is good enough, this isn’t a problem.

      The best case scenario is as you mentionned : a grocery that you can walk easily, that has everything you need.

      But having a light rail with high frequency makes it so that you can reach more area easily. And it also means that less dense part of the city still be serviced decently.

  • circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org
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    7 days ago

    Taking a train to the grocery store only seems absurd to people who have never experienced a really efficient rail system.

    You get what you pay for.

    • qbus@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      I used to take the train to the grocery store. It was called the red line in Chicago

        • qbus@lemmy.world
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          7 days ago

          The only thing that was different was that you don’t buy two weeks of groceries at once.

          • CommissarVulpin@lemmy.world
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            7 days ago

            This was something that used to put me on the pro-car side; if it takes me multiple trips just to get all my groceries from my car into the house, lugging all of that on a bus or a bike would be a nightmare!

            But then I saw content from people like Not Just Bikes, and saw how people in places with good public transit actually live, and it hit me like a ton of bricks that if shopping was more convenient, I wouldn’t need to buy a week’s worth of groceries in one trip. I could just swing by a corner store for what I need that night or the next morning, and one or two bags are easy to handle on a train or even a bicycle.

            • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
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              5 days ago

              I take a 10-minute detour on the way home from the light rail station, fit one or two or sometimes even three days worth of groceries in my backpack, maybe make another trip of about 25 minutes + time in store (which you’d have anyway) for some more after dinner. Some extra walking doesn’t hurt my pudge, and I’d rather do more walking now than be unable to later.