I’ve always hated the idea of using a subscription/cloud hosting for password management. I feel like I should have a LOT more control over that stuff and I don’t really want to hand all my keys over to a company.
All my secrets have been going in a highly encrypted archive with a long passphrase, but obviously that isn’t convenient on all devices. It’s been fine, I can open it on any computer but it’s not super quick. It does have the advantage of being able to put in multiple files, notes, private keys but it’s not ideal.
Anyway, finally found something that isn’t subscription, and has a similar philosophy - a highly encrypted archive file, and it’s open source and has heaps of clients including web browser plugins so it’s usable anywhere, and you can sync the vault with any file sync you like.
Thought you guys might appreciate the find, password managers have always been a bit of a catch 22 for me.
Note for android i found keepassxc the best app, and i’m using KeePassHelper browser plugin, and the KeePassXc desktop app as well as the free official one. Apps all seem to be cross platform.
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I cannot stop reading it as keep ass
It keeps your ass out of negligence I’d say
Girlfriend at the time noticed this on my phone and had some choice questions for me.
LOL
That’s half the fun, well actually it’s a utilitarian app so pretty much all the fun
Well you don’t want your ass took, at least not without permission.
I use KeePassXC on my laptop, KeePassDX on my phone and sync them with Syncthing.
This ia pretty sweet
it’s so good, wish I’d found it sooner
Exactly the same thought I had when I ditched Bitwarden for it. In my case, the transition was made even easier as I was already using Syncthing on my devices.
I have the same setup. It’s really neat.
Not bothered about the potential for keyloggers or even OS-level snooping on what is presumably your privacy-free Android device? Personally I would never type the master password into anything other than a computer running a FOSS stack that I control, but perhaps that is excessive caution.
Well, there is a limit to my paranoid. It’s really hard to find a sweet spot between security and practicality.
I found mine with this settings I said
Keepass clients typically have biometric input… and let’s not pretend you don’t need to type in your vaultwarden password in Android on the first run, either.
You could use a usb-c passkey but I know that’s not the majority use case.
So, biometrics, master password, and USB key - 3 whole options and 3 things I personally will never be letting near Android. Unwarranted caution, no doubt.
keepass2android is worth a try as well.
I installed KeePass(XC) on Android, iOS, Windows, Linux, Mac, for Firefox and Chrome and it’s all synced via encrypted cloud share. It even has OTP functionality so you don’t have to manually type 2FA codes.
Whats it called on ios? Keepassium?
There’s also Strongbox available for ios
KeePassium and Strongbox are both great.
Strongbox is rather expensive if you pay and missing too much if you don’t pay imo. I use KeePassium.
I don’t have an iPhone but I set it up for a family member. I remember we tried out two apps because the first one didn’t have what we needed. One of them was Keepassium, but I don’t remember of it was the one we kept.
Yes
If you keep the database in the cloud I recommend using a keyfile in addition to the password which is NOT kept in the cloud.
Very secure that way even if your cloud account is compromised.
I keep TOTP in a separate database.
Yup, I have been using KeePassXC locally since (one of) the first big LastPass breaches. I thought “password manager company… they know encryption” and then kept some of the most important things stored in my vault including notes of Bitcoin seedphrases etc. Thought "even if they get hacked, they wouldn’t let anyone exfil the huge amount of data from the USER VAULT SERVER… thought “my passphrase is like 25-30 chars long, nobody will crack that”…
5 years after my last login and I find out the breach happened, user vaults were exfil’d, the encryption was absolute shit, and the notes weren’t even encrypted.
I don’t trust cloud companies to keep promises or know what they’re doing today. and anything self-hosted isnt Internet accessable unless it’s on dedicated hardware subnetted off and wouldn’t matter if it got hacked.
Bitwarden for example does public reports and is pretty cheap at 10€ per year. But the base (free) offering is more than enough. The fee is only to have TOTP and a bit of encrypted cloud storage. https://bitwarden.com/help/is-bitwarden-audited/
The fee is only to have TOTP and a bit of encrypted cloud storage.
And to keep the company alive. It’s cheap enough that IMO it’s worth paying for if you get a lot of value from it, even if you don’t need the paid features.
In theory at least, online services would be more safe than a locally decrypted vault. If your computer is compromised, the bad actors can pull your encrypted vault for an unlimited brute force attack. Of course, this can be mitigated by increasing the decryption time. However, if your vault is already decrypted, then bad actors can just pull all your password from your memory.
I, for one, am decrypting my vault once when I start my PC. In theory, if I were to use an online solution, bad actors wouldn’t be able to pull my vault from memory.
In theory, if I were to use an online solution, bad actors wouldn’t be able to pull my vault from memory.
It’s the same issue once you login to your vault via browser extension. They have to download your vault locally on login to decrypt it when you enter your password anyway*. Even if they don’t store your vault password in memory, they either store the entire vault (unlikely for size reasons) or a more temporary key to access the vault. Local compromise is full compromise already.
*If they don’t, then they either made a giant technological leap, or they’re storing your passwords on a simple database on their servers and that’s not what you want from a password manager.
Love KeePass. When LastPass enshittened, I went looking for something immune to enshittification. Best money I never spent
Did LastPass do anything besides charge for it service?
They didn’t use strong encryption by default, Something about not enough iterations of whatever algorithm they use.
They also got hacked (more than once) , which is roughly when they announced the encryption issue.
I feel like they got bought by a shitty company too, but that’s beyond me.
There have been reports that some of these vaults that were stolen have already been compromised, though not sure if there is any proof.
OK, it’s just not what enshitification means. I don’t like the term but if you’re using it wrong it’s just confusing.
Fair point, I misunderstood. Thought you were asking for more general points.
As for enshitification, I suppose it started in 2015 when they were bought by LogMeIn (I looked it up), that’s where it generally always starts. Don’t know if the service degraded as I switched around that time. Though getting hacked twice in six months is pretty bad for a company guarding the publics secrets
I have been using KeePass for eight years. Used to just shuffle the file around with Google Drive, now I have it sync’d with Syncthing across a few devices. I use its notes feature to store associated data like S3 keys and it stores my SSH key and KeePassXC can automatically add it to an SSH agent.
I don’t really have any complaints about it.
Been a Keepass user for years and years. Absolutely top notch. There are plugins that can auto fill websites, that can open putty ssh sessions, basically everything you can imagine (or build).
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it’s written in C++ and not C# so it has better native integration with OSes like Linux
Not sure what you mean by this. Any APIs that can be called from C++ can also be called from C#. C# apps run natively on Linux, and they support self-contained deployment and native AOT (ahead of time) compilation meaning they can run on any Linux system even if it doesn’t have the .NET Core framework installed.
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s in Debian, for example, it’s going to pull the Mono runtime to execute it as well because it’s been built, like most C# apps, for JIT compilation.
.NET Core handles JIT compilation file. It looks like the KeePass developers have not yet updated it to use .NET Core though, which is why it’s pulling Mono in.
KeePassXC definitely looks nicer, but it’s definitely possible to do that with C# too. The KeePass developers just haven’t kept up with modern .NET.
written in C++ and not C# so it has better native integration with OSes like Linux
What do you mean exactly?
Love KeePass, I use it to store all my passwords including to SyncThing, then I keep my KeePass file in my SyncThing instance so I can recover from a disaster. Definitely nothing could go wrong with that ;-)
What’s amusing is I am purposely not paying for bitwarden because of the check against darkweb leaks or whatever type feature when you pay. That’s seems like an anti privacy thing. I understand it’s a good idea albeit seems to expose a lot of information about you. I would like to do vaultwarden but don’t think I can trust self hosting myself without paying monthly for a vps which I don’t want to do. Home Internet hosting seems to unreliable to me for something that important.
Just random thoughts of mine here.
because of the check against darkweb leaks or whatever type feature when you pay. That’s seems like an anti privacy thing. I understand it’s a good idea albeit seems to expose a lot of information about you
For the password leak checks, your passwords are never transmitted. They are one-way hashed locally, and then only the first few characters of the hash are checked against the API provided at https://haveiveenpwned.com which is run and designed by Troy Hunt, one of the most respected people in the cybersecurity industry. He collects major password breaches and makes them available to check against without actually exposing the data. It’s perfectly safe and secure.
The bitwarden clients also work when there’s no connection to the server, since they sync the vault. You just can’t add any new entries. That means spotty internet is not that much of an issue in terms of using it. It also means, that every device that has a client installed and gets used regularly (to give the client a chance of syncing) is automatically a backup device.
Follow OP’s approach. Use a Keepass file. It is offline and can be stored anywhere you can reasonably trust. You just need to sync it if you have many clients but syncthing is great for that.
Yep I’m very impressed with syncthing. I just started using it a few weeks ago.
I host vaultwarden at home. No real need for a vps since your passwords are synced to your phone or laptop(whatever client you’re using) and you can just sync it when you’re home if you make changes, or setup a VPN (I use wireguard) and sync on demand when needed.
That said, I do sync my database to a vps for dr purposes incase my home server suddenly vanishes… for critical services I follow a 3-2-1 backup rule but it’s not absolutely essential.
Are there advantages to this over self hosting Vaultwarden?
No in my opinion its worse in every way
Main thing I prefer about KeePass is that it’s a straightforward app that creates a file. Self-hosting a database seems just that much more complicated.
I used to be a KeePass user, but moved away because I was ultimately syncing the database using OneDrive, which I felt at that point it was a cloud password manager, which I didn’t like for being open to the internet and entrusting the security of the company hosting it.
And yes, I moved to self hosted Vaultwarden with Tailscale and haven’t looked back.
I don’t know if they fixed it, I hope so, but not long ago there was a very dangerous vulnerability that allowed an attacker to bring able to access the master password.
I was using it long time ago, then I discovered Bitwarden and I’m really happy with it. I suggest you to have a look, in terms of UI is better and can be self hosted too.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters More Letters NAS Network-Attached Storage SSH Secure Shell for remote terminal access VPN Virtual Private Network
[Thread #215 for this sub, first seen 13th Oct 2023, 19:05] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
For decent privacy oriented tool recommendations, here’s a list.
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/
There was some drama about the webpages so I’ll link both to avoid angry users. Anyway, KeePassXC is on there, which it seems like it’s a fork of KeePass, you might want to check it out.
Maybe a silly question, but since I am considering making the jump to a password manager too, I am curious:
If I have a selfhosted server at home that is not connected to the public internet, can I still ise Keepass? Does it have to constantly sync with the server or is it enough that when I get home my passwords are syncing? Could that be a problem?
You have your local replica of the database on your device and once you’re home or can connect to your home server (through VPN, for example) it will sync with the remote database. I used to have synthing running for this and it worked without issues.
I use KeePassXC, but am assuming KeePass is very similar.
You’ll have a single file on your machine that is your encrypted password database. Syncing is not handled by KeePass and is your responsibility.
If you want to sync only when you get home, as long as your sync app that is fine with it, KeePass won’t know or care.
Keep in mind if you make changes on two devices without keeping them in sync, one will probably get overwritten unless you take special care to handle it. (My sync app warns me, then I take both conflicting files and in the KeePass app, I can merge them to solve the conflict without data loss.)
If your server is not “online” you could vpn into your home network and use it that way. Another option is to have it local, meaning for example with bit/vault-warden you can still view your passwords if you don’t have connection. But you can’t edit or add new ones
