How do we sleep while our beds are burning?
I love this song, it’s still in my playlist
Removed by mod
Australian Government: “Should we finally grant the victims of our historic genocide a symbolic advisory role on matters that impact those victims”
Australians: “Git Farked”
Edit: That last viz “by age group” is really about how society progresses one death at a time.
They’re not telling the indigenous people to get fucked, they’re merely saying, “I’m too ignorant of the many many crimes committed against you for me to possibly vote in your favor. Perhaps if we were more educated, but alas… That would require voting for someone like you and I’m simply too ignorant…” See the difference? It’s a far more diplomatic way of telling someone that you really couldn’t give a shit whether they get fucked or just go off and die somewhere.
Thefartographer’s going to be prime minister and get a Nobel peace prize one day
Can you not use hate-speech in your post please?
Ummm, nah.
All this over an advisory board with no real power? How could that even be harmful?
Conservatives oppose it for the same reasons indigenous groups want it.
I’m voting yes, and i have tried to help people see why it’s a good thing, but when people call me racist for saying I’m in the yes camo, i know that far too many are just morons who have no critical thinking, or ability to tell what is a good source of information.
Adding a new governmental body that is open to only one racial group is racist and it is also undemocratic.
Your vote is well intentioned its just poorly informed. You’ve been propagandised.
You idiots have the same repeated talking points and they are just plain wrong.
In late 2023, Australians will have their say in a referendum on whether to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia in the Constitution through an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.
Not just one group, but two. And they are not racial you fuckwit, they are geographical and historical groupings.
Cultures have value and our First Nations are owed a debt. We live on their lands, we benefit from their experience. We owe them so much and this is just a vote for First Nations to be formally represented in parliament.
They’re not racial groups? Are you fucking kidding me? You absolute Muppet.
They’re not but you represent a bit racist group. And I love the Muppets, thanks wankstain.
I don’t represent anything except the desire to maintain democracy and egalitarianism
No, what you represent is casual racism and selfishness draped in the auspices of egalitarianism which distorts the true nature of democracy.
You obsess over words like race because you’re a racist. It’s really that simple.
"You obsess over words like race because you’re a racist. "
Its not me making the law here for one special separate group of people with their own distinct genetics
…casually failing to mention that the “one racial group” are the traditional land owners who lost their land and 50,000 year-old culture due to colonisation.
And what does that have to do with our modern (and future) Democratic nation?
None of us took anything from any others of us. Its a totally irrelevant point.
We can’t go around changing g the fundamental nature of democracy because of historical tragedies or in 15 minutes we’ll be back to fucking tribalism and feudal lords.
Colonisation took everything from First Nation people, but all you care about is that recognition might end up costing you something. Sound a lot like that tribalism you reckon you’re want to avoid.
And what are you actually giving up?
There is no threat to democracy, The Voice is an advisory body. It has no legislative, executive, or judicial powers.
Referendums are described in the Constitution to allow Australians to change how it functions. So we explicitly can change how aspects of our democratic process works, and obviously should do so to reflect changes in Australian society since Federation 120+ years ago.
Well you’ve just erected a pretty nice strawman there but not much else.
“It has no legislative, executive, or judicial powers.”
Nobody has any fucking clue what powers it might have, its a blank check. Show one fucking piece of evidence that there is any public plan for what this “advisory body” can and can’t do, or shut the fuck up.
Sure, we can change it. But there has not been any fucking legitimate reason presented as to why we should. The arguments presented by the Yes campaign are certainly emotional, but not fucking one has presented any argument as to what this body will actually do to change anything.
Let’s stick the the topic and avoid juvenile debate tactics.
Show one fucking piece of evidence that there is any public plan for what this “advisory body” can and can’t do, or shut the fuck up.
Here is exactly what the referendum entails, and note that it specifically limits the role of the Voice (in whatever form it takes) to “make representations” and also that it specifically highlights that parliament - and only parliament - “shall… Have the power to make laws”.
Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander by peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:
there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.
I repeat: the Voice Has no legislative, executive, or judicial powers, and you have no legitimate basis to imply otherwise. We are 100% not being asked to vote on a Constitutional change that undermines democratic principles. If you vote No on that basis then it is because you are ignorant of the proposed Constitutional change and have been conned by the right wing and media.
not fucking one has presented any argument as to what this body will actually do to change anything.
The Voice is part of modest recommendations proposed respectfully by First Nations people via the Uluru Statement from the heart. You need to be cynical and unrealistic to think that accepting and supporting their views - with no downsides to you personally or us as a country - really won’t change anything. Are you really interested in the outcomes for First Nations people? If so, please explain how you expect to see change if the Voice is rejected?
Forgot to add - I haven’t been conned by any media, either right wing or slightly less right wing. Don’t own a TV and the only social media I’m on is this which is unsurprisingly light on Aus politics.
Its ain’t me being conned here
This is always an interesting one - who is “propagandising” us, and what do they have to gain from their significant investment in advancing this agenda?
Well I mean, have you researched the issue, analyzed it, and developed your own position based on evidence?
Or are you just listening to what comes out of the TV?
If you get your opinions from someone who hands them to you fully formed (like Voice good, no voice racist) then that is propaganda, not information.
As to your second question - a: politicians scoring points and winning elections; and b: a whole lot of people who get a hand in deciding laws and economic decisions for their own special group.
And before you bang out the line about lobby groups all having a say already - yes of course we should fuck those off as well because they too are undemocratic corruption
Ah yes - do your own research… The mating call of the conspiracist.
So it’s the Labor party propagandising us to secure an election win that isn’t an election (top-tier research, I see)? Seems like a big deal that carries a very real risk of a loss, with opportunity for marginal gain at best, which necessitates burning immense political capital. This doesn’t smell of conspiracist bullshit to you?
The Labor Party have invested $9.5m into this, which has been spent on things like broad civics education and website upgrades. The yes campaign has also been set to lose for some time now - so my comment and the risk is already validated, and Labor get to tie themselves to an unpopular position, and lose. Genius.
Do you baselessly assume I get my information from TV because you don’t own/watch TV, get your info from the likes of YouTube (or better, Rumble - where do you get your research?), and think you’re an enlightened type because of it? I’ve looked at legislative review and the explanatory memorandum, cases from both campaigns, stats around indigenous outcomes, and the history of this country, but there was really no need - this is very simple. I personally don’t think it’s great to turn up, genocide the population, take their land, witness comparatively atrocious outcomes according to just about any metric you care to choose that persist 2 centuries after we turned up and shrug my shoulders because doing the bare minimum about that would be racist. The least we could do is give them a dismissable voice in matters that relate to them.
You can say you disagree with the existence of representative bodies like the business council, but the fact of the matter is that we have them. To now shut the gate on a marginalised group while the other bodies continue to exist only exacerbates the issue. Those bodies also have massive amounts of cash to throw around - the voice, on the other hand would get to make representions that can simply be ignored… What are you afraid of here? This is like me beating you up and taking your lunch money, then saying we can’t do a thing about that because you’re a different race/gender/sexuality/whatever, and that would be (pick)-ist.
I’ll put it differently - is the massive disparity in outcomes for indigenous Australians a product of the systemic issues that have been thrust upon them, or inferior genetics? If it’s systemic, why not get their input on addressing the issues that affect them? If it’s genetic, we get to have a very different chat. Feel free to pick a deflection like culture, but it’s all a product of genetics or systemic in the end.
No matter how many downvotes you get on Lemmy you still have the majority of your countrymen on your side so at the end of the day you still win.
Which is a damn shame too cos most tkof them are doing because they’re just as uninformed as the yes side.
Its fucking brexit all over again.
Some discussion and informed decision making wouldn’t go astray, but its a bit fucking late now
Except Brexit very predictably sent the country off the rails, while this establishes an advisory body that can simply be ignored.
The real reason it will fail is politics. The opposition party decided getting this voted down would strike a blow to the government.
So they’ve just blown racist dog whistles, racist trumpets, set of racists cannons and doubled down on ignorance: “If you don’t know vote No”
They have effectively weaponised division.
They created division by spreading lies, uncertainty and fear. Lies were repeated over and over, and became increasingly outrageous, despite being refuted again and again.
Then they pointed at the division they created and said “this is too divisive, we shouldn’t do it.”
What’s even the point of having a democracy if the majority of the voter base is uninformed
Not just uninformed - deliberately misinformed.
Colonialism intensifies
Voting on yes or no was made very easy when I saw that neo nazis, flat earthers, anti vaxxers and a multitude of other whack jobs are voting no. You are the company you keep in my book.
What a bunch of cunts
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Australians look set to reject a referendum proposal to recognise Indigenous people in the constitution by creating a body to advise parliament, with polls showing a clear majority for no in almost all states before Saturday’s vote.
The yes campaign has also been battered by the Blak sovereignty movement, which has led the progressive no case, arguing the voice would be powerless while pushing for truth and treaty to come ahead of constitutional recognition.
The no campaign has leaned heavily on the slogan “If you don’t know, vote no”, which former high court justice Robert French described as an invitation to “resentful, uninquiring passivity”.
The Australian prime minister, Anthony Albanese, spent part of the final campaigning week in the nation’s centre, Uluru, where the proposal for the voice was first formally presented in 2017.
Sitting with senior traditional owners in central Australia, Albanese said Australians had an opportunity to “lift the burden of history” and move forward with a positive vote on Saturday.
“Many Indigenous Australians who are on the frontlines of dealing with these problems in towns and cities and communities and outstations and home lands are very worried about the prospect of losing the voice because they already have little say, and a loss will mean that they have even less.”
The original article contains 827 words, the summary contains 213 words. Saved 74%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
fucking national disgrace…
'cos Aussies love racism
Keep it classy, Australia.
Not a good look. Very disappointed.
I’ve voted Yes, albeit with a bit of hesitancy.
As far as I am concerned, the role and functioning of the Voice is clearly defined in the proposal so this was never an issue for me. Where I feel people are generally stuck on is whether or not having an advisory body for just one demographic of people is naturally divisive. The argument becomes almost a bit of a slippery slope; if we have one body for indigenous people, why don’t we have one for other ethnic groups?
At face value, I understand why this can be perceived as racist and divisive, however, I think we have to also agree there is a slight nuance to this issue. The fact of the matter is that our government has been creating laws surrounding indigenous people for ages and it is because they are unfortunately the most disadvantaged group within Australia. This has been long going now before even having a Voice and we haven’t been calling the government racist or divisive up until now (well most of us at least). Clearly what is in place now doesn’t work and we have a history of failed Voice to parliament’s because we have change hands so frequently that no one bothers to continue with taking those issues with the seriousness it deserves.
Establishing a Voice does 2 things in my book. It provides the indigenous community with a level of autonomy to fix their own issues. Secondly, changing hands down the line cannot remove them. The proposal here also means that their level of influence will change as their needs are met. If at one point in time a Voice is no longer needed, it can be pulled back as needed.
I hope people don’t buy into the catch phrases and simple minded thinking. Please make an informed decision and vote with how you feel best. Being open minded is all I really hope people can be when deciding how to vote.
’ The argument becomes almost a bit of a slippery slope; if we have one body for indigenous people, why don’t we have one for other ethnic groups?’
idk I’ll take a wild stab and guess maybe becuse all other ethical groups in Australia didn’t live here for 60 000 plus years, have their land forcably removed, experienced mass genocide and an ongoing attempt to breed their ethnicity out of existence?
that said, I’m glad you voted yes.
but this is a dumb thing to say.
Huh, TIL that humans showed up in Australia 60,000 years ago. I thought for sure it would be less than 20,000 years until I looked it up.
As for the slippery slope, nah, it’s a natural thing to ask. That being said, I think you have a good answer to it.
I’ll add that most ethnic groups don’t/shouldn’t need a Voice (ombudsman?) type function in a functioning democracy. However, we frequently see that the rules as written don’t actually apply equally. We see this a lot in the U.S. (where I’m from). It sounds like you have a similar effect in Australia.
At face value, I understand why this can be perceived as racist and divisive
I appreciate that you’re not working to promote the talking point where if a profoundly disadvantaged racial group is given representation it’s “racist against white people”, but I live in a country where white people routinely argue that any amount of civil rights protections is “racist against white people” and it gives me a headache processing that level of stupid.
Yep, in my country it’s regular fare to hear GOP politicians bleat “you’re being divisive!” (as if our failure to submit to their rule is a fault)- it takes two to be on opposing sides of a divide, and it’s morally dishonest to pretend that only the other side of a disagreement is at fault for honest disagreement. Don’t let them work the ‘you’re being divisive’ angle, you’ll never hear the end of it.
