• @SattaRIP@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1818 days ago

      There’s the pointless blame game, y’all play when your “democracy” fails again and again and again. When the fuck are you stupid Americans gonna figure out what the rest of the world knows from the USA spreading “freedom” and “democracy”? You have no one to blame but yourself, bud.

    • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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      18 days ago

      Maybe you should turn that anger away from the people who oppose genocide, and toward the people who convinced you to support their genocide and that it would pay off for you in the end.

        • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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          18 days ago

          So your pro-genocide messaging/strategy failed and that’s somehow my fault?

          Did you talk to your representatives/party phone bankers and tell them that their parties support for Genocide will cost them the election? I did.

          Did you go to protests to make it known that genocide is a deal breaker for you and masses of others? I did.

          It’s not my fault that democrats are genocidal right wingers who lost an election to other genocidal right wingers. I did my best to convince the Democrats, they didn’t do anything to convince me.

            • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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              18 days ago

              No, you did, and you’re mad that your genocidal candidate lost so you’re lashing out.

              If you gave my vote to Kamala she still loses the electoral college by 70+ and the popular vote by 5million.

              Maybe do some self reflection and growth instead of lashing out at people for daring to oppose genocide.

        • @dontgooglefinderscult
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          518 days ago

          There is always a choice, you failed to make it. “Oh third parties can’t win” they can. Easily. You just need to vote for them. But Americans like you wanted genocide. You’re just mad you might be a victim sooner than later.

          • @shiftymccool@programming.dev
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            -618 days ago

            Yep, us collective Americans can just all agree to vote third party… Except the reds won’t, so you just advocated red genocide.

            … They can. Easily

            I don’t know where you’re from but third party candidates have never won in the US because of fptp voting.

            • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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              218 days ago

              Yep, us collective Americans can just all agree to vote third party… Except the reds won’t, so you just advocated red genocide.

              You say this as if the blue genociders just won an election rather than losing to those red genociders…

              You advocated blue genocide and got stuck with red genocide anyway. All you succeeded in was advocating for and normalizing genocide.

    • @eldavi@lemmy.ml
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      918 days ago

      she didn’t even win the popular vote and there’s aren’t enough leftists to keep up that blue wall.

    • LinkerbaanOP
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      18 days ago

      I hope you like the result of Genocide Joe and Holocaust Harris hard work to win their election! Blue MAGA really did a great job of banning dissent from their echo chamber to keep the gas chamber going. Turns out Genocide is not as popular as they made you believe.

  • @Codilingus@sh.itjust.works
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    17 days ago

    Isn’t Israel’s dirty little money fingers in damn near every nook and cranny of all of the USA’s federal elections, and by large amounts?

    • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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      218 days ago

      Who cares about genocide and actual demonization of immigrants.

      The real issue is that white men weren’t the absolute center of attention for 5 minutes. Ignore the fact that she was replacing a white man, running against a white man, and her VP was a white man…white men are obviously the real victims here! /s

      What you call “denying the humanity, feelings, and fears of white males” is a standard experience of every single other group of people (you’re literally doing it to them in the comment I’m replying ) and it stems from capitalist alienation, not “wokeness” or whatever.

      • Pudutr0n
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        18 days ago

        Who cares about genocide and actual demonization of immigrants.

        I mean… Do you? What things are you doing to address these issues?

        Edit: Also, did you assume I’m a white male? I’m not.

        • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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          118 days ago

          I mean… Do you? What things are you doing to address these issues?

          Yes. The most basic thing I’ve done was demanding the genocidal party stops doing the genocide if they want my support which I’ve done since oct-8, their refusal to listen doesn’t change my demands or how serious I was in those convictions.

          Also, did you assume I’m a white male? I’m not.

          Did I? You pushed the white male victimhood narrative and I expressed why thats wrong, that doesn’t change based on your race/sex.

          • Pudutr0n
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            018 days ago

            The most basic thing I’ve done was demanding the genocidal party stops doing the genocide if they want my support which I’ve done since oct-8, their refusal to listen doesn’t change my demands or how serious I was in those convictions.

            How’s that been working for you?

            Did I?

            I believe you did. You referred to me “doing it to them (other people)”. I’m other people.

            You pushed the white male victimhood narrative

            Did I? I didn’t, in any way, make a judgement on the value or ethical implications of the dehumanization of white men (even the poor ones). I didn’t imply it was right or wrong. I merely suggested, sarcastically, that it was a big factor in losing the election.

            You seem to be under the impression that this dehumanization is warranted, though. Do you think this mindset helps the problems that our societies and democracies are currently facing?

            Do you think ranking people regarding their levels of assumed victimization due to ethnic, sexual or identity backgrounds is something desirable in general?

            Food for thought, my friend.

            • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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              18 days ago

              How’s that been working for you?

              The blue genocidal party lost just as I told them they would if they didn’t listen and stop doing genocide. So I guess I’ve been vindicated in my demands they stop.

              I believe you did. You referred to me “doing it to them (other people)”. I’m other people.

              Are you really going to debate bro me on whether I assumed you to be a white male or not?..going so far as to remove context to try and make specific phrasing seem pointed?

              What you call “denying the humanity, feelings, and fears of white males” is a standard experience of every single other group of people (you’re literally doing it to them in the comment I’m replying )

              You placed “white males” as a standalone group in your comment.

              I stated that white males are not seperate from other groupings of people and by separating them into their own group and dismissing the struggles of other groups you are “denying the humanity, feelings, and fears” of all those other groups.

              You don’t have to be a white male to do this… obviously…

              Did I? I didn’t, in any way, make a judgement on the value or ethical implications…

              Oh, you just are a debate bro…hhhfff

              I didn’t, in any way, make a judgement on the value or ethical implications

              You don’t need to.

              I merely suggested, sarcastically, that it was a big factor in losing the election.

              So this is when you, sarcastically, pushed the white male victimhood narrative.

              You seem to be under the impression that this dehumanization is warranted, though.

              What? So you don’t believe in the white male victimhood narrative and weren’t pushing it…but my rebuttal of the white male victimhood narrative signals to you that I support white males being victims…this doesn’t make any logical sense.

              Do you think ranking people regarding their levels of assumed victimization due to ethnic, sexual or identity backgrounds is something desirable in general?

              No. Hence why I opposed your attempt to “sarcastically” rank white males at the top of a victimization totem pole.

              Edit: BTW…did you assume I’m not a white male?..

              • Pudutr0n
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                18 days ago

                The blue genocidal party lost just as I told them they would if they didn’t listen and stop doing genocide. So I guess I’ve been vindicated in my demands they stop.

                Do you think this will have an impact on the actual genocide, though? Do you feel like you’ve done enough? Can you fairly and honestly say this is something you care about if this is your only action regarding this problem?

                Are you really going to debate bro me on whether I assumed you to be a white male or not?

                Yes, this is definitely what I want to do with my afternoon (this is actually not sarcastic). Did I remove any relevant context? Please elaborate if you care to continue this surreal tangent.

                You placed “white males” as a standalone group in your comment.

                I did.

                white males are not seperate from other groupings of people

                dismissing the struggles of other groups

                Any chance on giving that statement second thought? I think you’ll find something interesting.

                Oh, you just are a debate bro

                I’m unfamiliar with the term. Maybe if you clarify I can tell you if I feel identified with the definition.

                this is when you, sarcastically, pushed the white male victimhood narrative.

                Erm… So by me suggesting their vote was lost, i implied they were victims? I’m sorry but I disagree.

                my rebuttal of the white male victimhood narrative signals to you that I support white males being victims

                No. I think you may have a fixation with victimhood and its implications on the value and humanity of people, and I think you’ve pushed this fixation in every point during this exchange, projecting it into my arguments.

                rank white males at the top of a victimization totem pole.

                This is another example of the former. You seem to be under the impression that victimization is a ranking system.

                Maybe I should clarify. Under my perspective, everyone deserves to be listened to, have their humanity accepted and treated with respect (even in situations of conflict and mutual destruction). You, me, white males, bolivians, jews, palestines, fundies, tankies, billionaires, criminals, war criminals, nazis, hitler, genghis khan. Everyone.

                The reason behind this is that without that basic extension of empathy, all possibilities of consensus are lost before a conversation even begins. Do I always extend these basic forms of empathy to everyone? No, sometimes I’m a dick, but I do try.

                My original point was about the consequences of the lack of willingness to convey these basic forms of empathy to white males in the election (this doesn’t imply i consider them victims. I don’t.)

                What I’m currently trying to convey now is that victimization is not a ranking system, friend. And voting or not voting for someone is not an effective course of action to solve anything you truly care about.

                I’m sorry people you care about are suffering. <3

                Edit: I don’t think I did, and I honestly have no use for information regarding your sex, gender or ethnicity.

                • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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                  17 days ago

                  Do you think this will have an impact on the actual genocide, though? Do you feel like you’ve done enough? Can you fairly and honestly say this is something you care about if this is your only action regarding this problem?

                  1. Yes. Trump’s incompetence is much more likely to lead to failure.

                  2. No. While you still draw breath and the genocide is ongoing, you can never say you’ve done enough.

                  3. Where did I say this was my only action? I specifically called it my “most basic” action, indicating I view it as one of the easiest/least impactful.

                  Did I remove any relevant context?

                  Yes, and I provided the context directly under where I accused you of removing it. I was speaking of the “white male” group you singled out in relation to other groups. You made it seem as if I was singling you personally out in relation to other groups.

                  This is the last I’ll say on it, since we both agree that the sex, gender and ethnicity of the other is irrelevant.

                  Any chance on giving that statement second thought? I think you’ll find something interesting.

                  I’ve thought about it and have determined that white males do not face unique forms of discrimination due to them being white males, simply the same capitalist oppressions which used to be reserved for others. So to single them out as a unique group that is discriminated against is not based in reality.

                  "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression "

                  I’m unfamiliar with the term. Maybe if you clarify I can tell you if I feel identified with the definition.

                  Someone who’s desire for engaging in and “winning” internet debates is libidinal.

                  Erm… So by me suggesting their vote was lost, i implied they were victims?

                  No, suggesting that their vote was lost due to the democratic party “denying their humanity, feelings and fears” implies they are victims of having those things stripped away.

                  Under my perspective, everyone deserves to be listened to, have their humanity accepted and treated with respect (even in situations of conflict and mutual destruction). You, me, white males, bolivians, jews, palestines, fundies, tankies, billionaires, criminals, war criminals, nazis, hitler, genghis khan. Everyone.

                  So we have a core disagreement here (though I don’t see the relevance).

                  Respect is freely given but can be lost. How do you respect Nazis? Baby Hitler did nothing wrong sure, adult Hitler is a different story. We didn’t beat Hitler by hearing him out and defeating him in the marketplace of ideas. We pushed the Nazis in and he ate a bullet.

                  My original point was about the consequences of the lack of willingness to convey these basic forms of empathy to white males in the election (this doesn’t imply i consider them victims. I don’t.)

                  Another core disagreement.

                  1. these things were conveyed to white males. Far more than any other group. I’m expected to vote democratic party despite a genocide of my brothers and sisters in faith…Dems literally adopted Trump’s white nativist policies to try and appeal to white males and {1}you’re justifying their lack of support while combatting mine…

                  2. being stripped of your “humanity, feelings and fears” and having to face a total lack of empathy in the system, would be victimization. It’s just not something they face.

                  Edit: {1}

  • ben
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    -818 days ago

    The democrats lost because they don’t completely align on some of my favourite issues, it has nothing to do with how people felt about the state of the economy or a lack of focus on certain demographics.

    • @eldavi@lemmy.ml
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      2118 days ago

      Very true; people should not be making decisions on silly inconsequential little things like a genocide.

      • ben
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        1218 days ago

        Note the “completely align”, if you care about the conflict in Israel and the Gaza strip then the worst decision you could make is allowing Trump to win and give Netanyahu free reign to do whatever he wants.

        • @eldavi@lemmy.ml
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          818 days ago

          Even if every single leftist voted for Kamala, she would still lose; there aren’t enough leftists in this country to restore that blue wall.

          She lost because of the genocide and alienating her base while trying to become a diet republican.

        • @TonoManza@lemmygrad.ml
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          218 days ago
          1. it’s a genocide not a conflict. You are engaging in genocide denialism. Imagine someone calling the Holocaust a “conflict in Germany”…

          2. Netanyahu has already had free reign under Biden. Every single “red line” of Bidens was crossed and normalized by the administration.

      • @mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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        818 days ago

        Will this result make that better?

        No, seriously. If that’s the biggest issue, to the exclusion of all others - does this event make it better, or worse?

        • @eldavi@lemmy.ml
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          218 days ago

          harris’ words said that she was trying to help, but her actions say otherwise; so it’s the same result either way.

          • @mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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            818 days ago

            Okay great, so the problem was unavoidable, in this decision. It made no difference. Why the fuck should we have that problem, and also outright fascism?

            • @eldavi@lemmy.ml
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              117 days ago

              i make no distinction between facist and facist-enablers. nevertheless, lemmy convinced me to find someone to vote swap with and i did in nevada.

              the american people chose facism; so go ask them.

    • LinkerbaanOP
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      018 days ago

      We need Genocide Joe to commit Genocide to win the election

      Nobody should replace Skeletor Genocide Joe, he is the incumbent that is the bestest candidate

      Actually Kamala needs to run without holding primaries. It is too late now!

      Kamala must promise keep supporting Genocide, if she doesn’t she will lose

      Kamala needs Liz Cheney to win over voters.

      Actually the economy is bad so it does not matter what Democrats would have done