Dating is a complete shit show. People that say to just work on your self are only telling half the story. Of course it’s important to be open and actively willing to improve, but it’s equally as important to identify the kind of people in your life. Legit, the only reason I’m not a complete fucking incel today is because I was lucky enough to have a friend to connected me with someone I wouldn’t have ever met otherwise.
I was convinced that all my self-improvement was pointless as I kept getting shoved away as a monster for simply being a man and getting cucked by literal rapists. Felt like what I believed in must have been fundamentally flawed somehow, that I was just broken. Turns out I was just used to attracting shit people.
This is the key that too many straight men who use words like “friend zone” and “game” and “incel” just don’t realise… don’t go hunting for a bride like some caveman. Go make friends. Live your life by doing the things you like, treat women like women not like a prize to be won. Make male and female friends, don’t just talk to women who you’re attracted to. Find friends, and not with the anticipation that one of them will turn into a girlfriend. “Friend zoned” is what people say when they don’t get that they’re not owed a relationship, and think that being friends with women is a waste of time. Find friends. Be who you are, be genuine. That’s the only way you’ll find people who are genuinely interested in spending time with you and not some persona you’ve adopted. If you want an actual good match of a partner, it’s more likely that a friend of yours will match you up with someone than you finding the one by going out like you’re on the hunt.
Find pubs with karaoke, and do it. If you’re decent, someone will compliment you. Strike up a conversation with them.
If you are a man, do not go to bars or clubs alone and expect anything unless you are like, insanely hot or charming. But if you are either of those things you don’t need my advice. Either go with friends or do something more actively social, like a class or outright social group.
dating apps are bleak as fuck, yes.
I had a friend who tried the same thing, bars and such. He didn’t try anybody in his friend group and he was more ir less isolated at work, so there was no real pool of people to look into. I suggested getting a cheap seat at the ballpark and he balked saying he didn’t like sports. I told him even if he walked the concourse, there were still folks he could interact with. He ended up finding some girl who was an actual prostitute and got him hooked on drugs.
He ended up finding some girl who was an actual prostitute and got him hooked on drugs.
That last line hits like a truck.
she probably looked like one.
Or like cocaine
I suggested getting a cheap seat at the ballpark
He ended up finding some girl who was an actual prostitute and got him hooked on drugs.
Oof
Woah that story took a turn I Did not expect
Ez secks and drugs. That’s better than a relationship.
Wild.
Such is life if you don’t follow rule 1&2.
I go out and interact with strangers all the time, make acquaintances and friends, and when I was interested, even met women to date. I’m autistic, awkward, and have anxiety. If I can do it, most neurotypicals should be able to as well. I think the problem most people have is that they expect things to happen instantaneously. It takes time to build rapport with an individual or group, but consistency is key. You’ll often be surprised by the people who look forward to seeing you.
The true key is…counterintuitive as this sounds, not looking.
Try enjoying yourself, meeting people, doing things you like. People can sense desperation or dishonesty in you when you’re feigning interest or trying to get in their pants. Just…be a decent person, and you can find people who you get along with. It happens more naturally that way and you’re more likely to find…yknow, people you like and who like you.
And plus, once you do have a relationship, it’ll be a lot stronger because you won’t desperately need to be in that relationship at any costs.
I think the problem most people have is that they expect things to happen instantaneously
In my experience it’s oftentimes men that are looking to date women way more attractive than them. Like some fat slob incel that refuses to date or bang a chubby chick and then gets mad they’re not picking up women that are hot AF and upset “nobody will date [them].”
It’s stupid, I know a guy on discord just like that. Unattractive fat guy and when I mentioned I think the biggest thing to coupling is being realistic and dating people about the same attractive level … Dude balked at that. Was like “what about a guy that has a great personality,” the man is delusional. No job, on food stamps and just getting by, living in a one bedroom (maybe studio?) apt, slobby and fat then hits the surprise Pikachu face that women don’t want to date him. Not to mention his social skills. Talk about a total lack of self awareness.
Sure maybe if you were extremely rich a woman might overlook your physical appearance but let’s be realistic here.
That to me is the problem most people have but I agree with the instantaneous thing too - it takes time to get in the groove so to speak. I’ve seen it go both ways gender wise just picking on my fellow dudes here.
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
- Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
“Do not give off mating signals unless you are given mating signals” how is that gonna work if nobody is supposed to initiate anything?
That’s…not what they wrote
I’m part of a social activity meetup group that also does a bit of volunteer stuff for folks In need. I’m already with someone but I’ve watched people meet and pair off in that group several times. It happens.
If you smell shit everywhere you go, check your shoes.
Yeah, I wouldn’t recommend a bar either. Try taking a class, joining some sort of athletic thing (jogging, cycling, yoga) volunteering somewhere. Go to a place where you’re doing an activity with a group, and the focus isn’t dating. Takes the pressure off and allows for getting to know people naturally.
And, the important second part to that, is to join a club without looking to date. Men (and very occasionally women) who join clubs or teams or whatever with dating as the first priority smell like desperation and end up making the experience worse for everyone, including themselves.
“I do a lot of really cool stuff with fun people maybe the problem is YOU FUCKING SUCK FIX YOURSELF”
This but unironically, everyone should fix themselves
With a reaction like that I would say yes, you need to pay some attention to yourself. By the way, a lot of that “cool stuff” is very ordinary shit like trivia night at a local sports bar.
You sound like you have a skill issue.
choosing signals
Intaresting
Came here to comment that the fact OOP uses language like “choosing signals” is probably the reason women aren’t interested in talking to them.
Ireland is the only place where pubs are actual genuine places to meet and chat with strangers. And even then it can be difficult. Came back to France after 13 years and I was just flabbergasted at the difference. Everyone is out with their little group and no one seems to talk with anyone outside that little sphere. Only spot where it’s socially acceptable to engage strangers is the counter itself and that’s about it; and if you do it feels like you’re a freak, honestly. I tried a few times to just meet people that way, and gave up.
Only way that worked for me was joining a hobby or sport or some other group like that. Volleyball got me a job within like two weeks of joining! Couchsurfing got me great friends, girlfriends and eventually my wife.
Couchsurfing got me great friends, girlfriends and eventually my wife.
I should totally try that. It’d be like: “Honey? How long is Rolando going to be staying on our couch? He spends all his time on his laptop giggling at that weird website full of communists and furries…” / “I don’t know… Let’s… Let’s set him up with that friend of yours, I bet that’ll get him out of here!”
Idk, I’ve made lots of friends at bars and pubs in the US
That’s good to hear!
America in general has become just a hostile place to live and interact in. I think people really underestimate how detrimental to ones mental health living in a country that allows people to own guns is and it’s a rl big tragedy. I think it’s the biggest difference between u.s and other countries and it shows culturally. If we got rid of all guns in the U.S. we would probably win the world cup and no one would even come close.
Are you competing for the Olympic long jump? Because that’s quite a leap, holy shit. What do guns have to do with it? I understand you may have some preoccupations about it that interfere in this way, but most people don’t
To be clear… you’re afraid to talk to people because guns exist? If this is true, you may need to speak to someone about this professionally.
Sort of reductive.
Violence is bad in America. People feel it appropriate to start arguments about politics in public with strangers. Those people are allowed to have guns on them and in their cars. An angry person with a gun on their hip is just different.
Thats just as a man too, women deal with worse, and I would argue even have a reason to need a gun themselves in some situations.
Its violent all around here and it comes from regular ass people, like your neighbors.
Dude get off the Internet, real life is not full of violent strangers looking to start arguments. Go outdoors, meet some people, enjoy a nice hobby with them and stop watching internet ragebait
Not what I said but sorry I scared you.
Actually, yeah, if you try to talk to someone’s girlfriend in the wrong place you probably won’t get shot, but you would be in pretty big danger. Violence is extremely prevalent in the u.s.
Bruh just find a group activity - fuck I don’t know, instead of paying $30 for a beer, take a painting class or something…
Just did a class and I was the only guy in it.
It was a welding class.
… Maybe choose floristry next time?
Studied electronic engineering for two years - the group I went in was like 111 dudes and 7 girls. Some dudes enrolled in electives from faculties like nursery or dentistry because the boys/girls ratio there was inversely proportional as in our faculty.
Church events work fine, too. My buddy and me went to one in a damp basement and it was about 30 people. 100% women. Average age about 22 I guess. All were dancing. They all immediately started staring at us as if we were edible. Within the hour, my buddy met what would soon become his GF, and I was approached by this amazing girl. I then went on a string of remarkable dates with her.
The kicker: It was a Christian event, but the girls we hooked up with weren’t Christians at all.ikr a lot of people go to Church events for “safer” socializing, even if they only attend the services on Christmas and Easter if that. If you’re Catholic or Orthodox, it’s more like a cultural thing. (this may vary by area. Also it’s not really safer, but your grandmother will say it is.)
… Have you gone to a painting class? It’s only couples
Hey, my wife and I noticed you from across the canvas and just really like your vibe.
I’m not your mother, be creative and come up with a better idea 🤝
Get a part time job at Hobby Lobby or Michele’s. Those places ooze dating-type single woman vibes. There were many things I needed for various projects that have only been locally available from these stores. I get a ton of looks going in there, and I’m like the most oblivious of dudes for that kind of attention.
Manager: “Why do you want to work here?”
Dude: “Trying to bang a co-worker.”
Manager: “At least you’re not just here for the paycheck. Welcome aboard!”
Skip Hobby Lobby since their health care doesn’t include abortions.
Or even birth control
Single experienced woman who can take their teeth out 😏
Who doesn’t like a good gummie?
The local city reddit/discord is gonna have regular hangouts if your city is big enough. That’s been my go-to starting point everytime I move.
I managed to get an in-person DND group going by visiting the local game store. There’s also the other card / roleplay games available too.
Depending on your age, there’s also the local college groups. You could join a cycling group, or a running geoup. Hell, the queer group in my town has a first Sunday coffee meetup.
It’s easy to shut down any suggestions but damn, if all you ever do is naysay shit, then you’re never gonna get anywhere. Do you want to find friends and romantic partners, or do you want to spend your time crapping on online dating?
The local city reddit/discord is gonna have regular hangouts if your city is big enough.
The problem with that is you’re going to meet reddit/discord people that way.
I went to a Reddit meet up in 2012 and never went back. Was way too nerdy for me. I presume that’s changed though as the site grew so much since then
For what it’s worth, r/Bogota has never had those - and if it had, it would be just incels living with their mommy who barely know their own neighborhood. It’s ridiculous how they’re so detached from the reality of our city and country.
or something
You can pick whatever you want. It’s almost like everyone likes something different and there’s no one answer for finding a romantic partner.
B i n g o
Bro, I’m sure one of them want a third.
Lame
Yeah, my experience, too. People hang out with their friends in their friend groups. Just sucks that they don’t seem to mix anymore. Networking doesn’t work if there’s neither opportunity nor interest.
Do them same - hang out with your friend group, just have fun and don’t press finding a relationship. You first get to know people through that group and later interest and maybe a relationship forms.
You do realize that in most cases it’s lack of that friends group the whole problem?
Just get a girlfriend and join her friend group. Then after you’ve made enough friends, dump her and then you’ll have your own friends.
Then go with your colleagues or any group for that matter, book a class about something as someone suggested. 90% of life is showing up.
If you’re too disgusting for anyone to have around, work on yourself first (basic hygiene and not being an asshole is usually enough though).
It can be very relaxing to hang without outsiders
Surprisingly, real world isn’t world of Warcraft, people won’t have marks over their heads indicating something to you
They should.
In The Metaverse™ they will! (…for a price…)
Legit though, why be rude to a fellow for rolling up politely as a dude? Like, if he’s hitting on you and it isn’t welcome, you tell them up bugger off politely. But just someone looking for some conversation? Man, I actually dislike strangers in general, I’ve got PTSD issues. But I still wouldn’t automatically push the guy away without a solid explanation. And I’m actually known for being blunt about things in public. But when you go to some places, including bars, there’s an assumption that it’s a shared space and you treat other people as well as they’ll allow.
Like, if you aren’t willing to be polite and at least explain why a stranger isn’t welcome in your group, maybe a bar isn’t the best place to meet up? Nobody is obligated to welcome them in with open arms if they don’t want to, but you do it nicely because that’s a fellow human being trying to be social and friendly. You say, “hey man, sorry, this is an in group situation, we’re here as an established group doing our thing.” You don’t dis them, you don’t act like they’re bad for looking at you and your group and thinking “maybe those dudes could be cool to hang with”. That’s a good thing if someone thinks you and your crew are interesting.
I dunno, maybe I’m fucking weird, but as much as I hate crowded places, and dislike random contact, I can’t think of a single time where I would have rejected someone without a friendly explanation why.
We gotta be better to each other. We don’t all hang the be friends, but we can be nice about it, can’t we?
This dude is clearly looking to get laid and I bet it’s very clear from the way he approaches people. You’re assuming they aren’t creeping.
Yeah, but it’s most likely that he’s looking to get laid by women, the word choices and way the text is written point to the writer being hetero, with the men he was talking to being for companionship.
But, yeah, I’m assuming good intentions overall. Looking to get laid isn’t inherently bad, for one thing. Nor is trying to find someone to date. Creeping implies they’re being crude about it, or otherwise behaving in an inappropriate manner. Well, that’s the main usage of the slang term. So, my base assumption is that someone writing something like that is no worse than any idiot teenager or young adult with poor social skills.
When that’s the case, there’s no reason to be rude or dismissive to them, you can still be nice about it. Hell, even if they are creeping, you stand a better chance of some minor degree of giving them an example of how they should behave by being nice.
As much as I hate people, and gods do I, if we fall into the trap of defaulting to believing the worst and acting on it with everyone, shit breaks down. It may seem like an oxymoron, but compassionate misanthropy is possible. You can believe people are assholes in general, and still act based on the chance that they’re not, simply by assuming that malice isn’t involved.
Yes you definitely have a point, I guess it would be better to assume the best and show compassion. I think it’s just more difficult when creepieness becomes danger.
So the girl is wrong for not wanting to be sexually objectified by a random stranger…? If you knew how much women are harrassed and objectified all the god damn time when going out, you would know that being polite to these guys only sends them the wrong signals and makes them think that you are interested and they have a chance, and will make things worse. The core problem with these incel guys is that they feel totally entitled to a womans body and attention. They aren’t! Yes everyone deserves a happy and healthy relationship with others and social connections, but these guys are so bitter that they literally think spending 30 dollars on a beer should give them access to a girl. If they would genuinely want to just have a conversation with them he wouldn’t have drawn the conclusion that he stated at the end. He wouldn’t have to feel that rejected. It’s because he was there especially to find a girl to date, that the girl couldn’t live up to his expectations.
Women aren’t objects to obtain or fuck. And honestly most women get harrassed and stalked and get unwanted attention from men so much that they sense the intentions of these guys immediately.
See, you’re stuck in a bad place.
You not only assume that the person in the text is a bad person, but that I’m also thinking the way you seem to think is the default.
Look, go back and reread what I wrote while assuming the best. That I’m looking at the text with compassion and the goal of not fucking with someone.
Then go back to the original text and look at it without the assumption that the person is acting badly. Look at it with compassion, with the assumption that they don’t know how to interact with people yet. Or look at it from the perspective I wrote from, that if someone approaches your group in a public place, that maybe being nice, being gentle is the way we’re supposed to start out.
You do realize I didn’t mention anything about women needing to be polite to someone hitting on them, right? I mean, the very first line of the comment you’re responding to says “legit though, why be rude to a fellow for rolling up politely as a dude”. That sets the framework for the perspective of the comment. It’s a dude talking about how to treat other dudes that approach your group in public.
We’re talking about two separate things, or that’s my base assumption in this response. That you aren’t just ranting about something random and didn’t read the comment, but that you just missed the first line, or that I didn’t phrase it well enough, and need to explain it better.
See what I mean though? You didn’t even come at this neutrally, you started off with putting words in my mouth (or on my screen, I guess), and I’m still here trying to assume the best instead of just blocking you because you’re off on your own tangent that doesn’t respond to what I actually wrote. I’m being direct, but I’m still (so far) being nice about it instead of just blasting you or otherwise forgetting that you’re human and can make mistakes without intending to be a jerk.
You’re right, I didn’t come at this neutrally. I didn’t get that you were talking from the perspective of being a guy, sorry. I respect that you still try to assume good intentions and you’re right that it will probably get you further than assuming the worst about people. I might have been talking about a different point than you, but my view on that is still the same. I just do not think the guy in question had other intentions than to pick up a girl and I do not agree with his conclusion at the end. The whole concept of the incel mentality is just frustrating to me and I have no idea how to handle that. And yes you’re right, that if the guys were a bit more elaborate on why dude was in the wrong they could’ve helped the dude. I mean he probably doesn’t have friends in the first place which makes it even worse to try and talk to people.
Oh, I’m with you there! Women being treated like not only is their presence permission to hit on them, but that they have to accept it or end up the target of abuse is way out of hand.
A lot of it comes from a lack of guidance, imo. Back in my youth, the shit that was in movies and on TV perpetuated the whole persistence model of romance, and young men never got told that it was not realistic. I knew so many boys and young men that genuinely thought they had to be aggressive (as opposed to just presenting themselves) because there was the idea that women want that. And, yeah some people do value aggression and persistence in their idea of romance, but it’s far from the majority.
It seems that there’s still that false perception, and the only real way to counter it is genuine, direct guidance for people before they internalize it. We gotta teach our kids both directly by explaining what is and isn’t acceptable, and by living that example. For adults, it’s similar. We gotta be direct about explaining to other men (and even women to women) that it just isn’t okay to treat people like a goal, a piece of meat.
So, yeah, I feel you there. The incel as a social phenomenon has to be countered whenever possible. We just can’t let it fester
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