I would like a jelly bean tree, in the mean time I’ll stick with what I can get.
Ok, I’ll bite. Name his inadequacies. I will not accept his debate performance as an answer. Because, while it was horrible, he has had plenty of excellent speeches before and after. For example one of the best SOTUs I have heard in my lifetime (I’m old) and his NATO address.
Ok, I’ll bite back. The election is going to swing on low-information voters in a handful of states. Coyotino just told you about people who could sway the vote to keep Trump out, but are planning to STAY HOME. They’re going to swing us into fascism.
Biden’s inadequacies:
he wasn’t winning in the polls before the debate
through the debate and since, he hasn’t defended the good people dedicated to keeping the government working, nor taken on any of the other horrors of the 2025 plan. He can’t. He can’t react in real-time to Trump lying in front of him, he certainly can’t refute why all of the 2025 plan is awful without someone feeding him what to say. Sure, he’s knows it is bad, but he can’t articulate why and in what way.
we all know he’s old and relying on others (God Bless Them) to keep things on an even keel – but he obviously can’t do things on his own and should not have to make the big decisions he must make. Example: he should have let Ukraine hit Russia sooner and harder, and should have re-upped that even further before now.
Today (Wednesday, July 10 2024), I watched Biden meet other officials with the NATO head. They stood in one place while digniaries came up, shook hands, got a photo, and moved on. Biden sparkled for each hand shake and photo, but because a lifeless zombie between people. It was unnerving. I felt sorry for him having to stand there like the dead until reanimated for the next required action, then back to death.
post debate, Biden is STILL losing in the polls
\
We need all eligible voters to show up and stop Trump. We need a Congress that will outlaw fascist actions rather than further enabling them.
We need something to spark the apathetic potential voters to act to save Democracy because the risk is too great and right now the low-info folks aren’t hearing anything new.
So your comment about moderates not voting because… they do not like either and fascism and Project 2025 are not compelling augments? Reminds me of a friend who told me that he was not voting because it doesn’t matter to him. And them Trump tariffs hurt his business.
Ok your list
#1 You do not think he is winning
#2 You do not believe he is capable of responding to Project 2025 because of his debate performance.
#3 You’ve got an ageist argument and then connect that to his policy position on escalation management.
#4 After a great speech you come away with not feeling good about superficial characteristics
#5 You do not think he is winning
“We need something to spark the apathetic potential voters to act to save Democracy because the risk is too great and right now the low-info folks aren’t hearing anything new.”
I am here arguing for the most viable option. Let’s all do our best to help.
I do not agree with everything he has done but his actions have proven to me that he has been an excellent president and is a good person. I also believe he is the only viable candidate we have. Is he old and does he seem old, yes. Will he be able to lead a good and effective administration, he has and he will.
Do you think the Biden administration has been a good one and do you think a future Biden administration will be a good one?
I didn’t say “moderates not voting” I said “low-information voters.”
It isn’t that WE don’t have compelling reasons, it is that low-info folks are not LISTENING
My reasons:
It doesn’t matter if I think he’s winning, the polls think that. Polls aren’t particularly accurate, but you are willing to risk Democracy on the hopes that it is OK for people who like neither choice to stay home. I want them in the streets and in the voting booth.
I do not ‘believe’ he is capable of responding because I watched as he failed to do so. It is evidence based.
I don’t care that Biden is old. Trump is old, too. I care that Biden is exhibiting evidence of a dramatic decline in ability both physical and mental.
It was not a great speech. He stared at the teleprompter and punched up each word as hard as he could. Every President gets their speeches written for them, so I’m not criticizing that. but his delivery was strained. You are saying that and his zombie presence the next day are merely ‘superficial’, but his chances to give content have been empty. The debate, the Stephanopoulos interview, and every chance he’s had to say something meaningful. He’s not painting a picture of what would happen if Trump wins and how he’ll work to make sure no one gets that power. He’s only saying stuff he’s said before.
Again, it does not matter who wins the popular vote. The election is about who is going to sit out in a few swing states.
I think Biden is a wonderful man who did wonderful things for the U.S. – maybe not enough, but Congress and the Courts blocked a lot. A neighbor complained that Biden went back on student loan debt forgiveness. I pointed out that, no, he didn’t – the courts blocked it. A week later, the same neighbor complained about it again. I spent five minutes explaining how the courts overruled the plan and who to be mad at. There was a similar but lesser issue with Dobbs.
Look: The polls and pundits tell me a future Biden administration will only exist in our dreams, so the only choice is to find someone else or let Trump win.
I was thinking we were in a thread that started with:
I just spent the weekend with moderate relatives that are ready to stay home instead of voting in November because they don’t like either choice, and the debate solidified that position.
I didn’t say “moderates not voting” I said “low-information voters.”
I don’t want to argue, I mean I admit I did but that’s not really want I was intending. I think you have a valid point of view but I do not see it the way you do.
I see what you are saying and I appreciate that we are both stating our positions. I;m grateful we have a place where we can express ourselves.
You are correct that the thread started that way. I was just saying that I then reframed that as low-info voters who may or may not be moderate. Someone in another thread had talked about some leftists in California who were going t skip voting as a protest to the war in Israel – which won’t matter because California is not up for grabs.
FWIW, I watched Biden’s press conference and was once again amazed as Biden reminded us of all the things he’s done. He’s been a great statesman and exactly the kind of world leader I want our President to be, and it baffles me that so much of the population want to pick a petty know-nothing bully like Trump.
If you legitimately have not seen someone go through this kind of mental decline, I am happy for you, because it sucks. My grandmother is getting really bad at this point, and it hurts to watch. But denying it and pretending these are just moments of normal forgetfulness rather than living in the past that is common for people in mental decline, is cruel and irresponsible.
Is he in a really terrible place right now? Doesn’t seem like it. But neither was my grandmother just 2 years ago, and we’re not choosing him for how is is today, we’re choosing him based on how he might be the next 4 years.
Biden is one man and it is the Biden administration. We can’t predict the future and if there was a younger stellar dem candidate who could viable take on, ok then. But this is what we have. I’d take a President Harris no problem if it came to it. If Biden can stay the front man and have the right people behind him, which he will, it will be fine.
People had no problem with a straight up psyco like Reagan in dementia as president.
And really let’s say you are right about Biden. Then we get to chose between two people in the same boat. One’s a dangerous narcissist and one is a good man.
Your argument is literally to give up and sit on your hands and just hope and pray that no one notices we’re putting a senile individual into the most powerful job position in the world. Oh, and whatabout Reagan.
Biden is one man and it is the Biden administration.
The cabinet and administration are not there to Weekend at Bernie’s the President.
And really let’s say you are right about Biden. Then we get to chose between two people in the same boat. One’s a dangerous narcissist and one is a good man.
Who is no longer in full control of his faculties. Which is a horrible choice. You’re arguing against trying to make that choice something else.
if there was a younger stellar dem candidate who could viable take on, ok then
There are, but no matter who anyone says, you’ll write them off for one reason or another.
This is not strategy or sound reasoning, it’s fecklessness. It’s fear of making the wrong choice, so you’d rather walk away from the trolley switch and wash your hands of it. When Biden loses, all the people arguing for him to stay in won’t actually have to take any responsibility for their part in Trump being back in office. I’m sure they’ll just find a way to blame everyone else- probably for “not being on-board” enough (which is exactly why Biden shouldn’t still be running- candidates are supposed to be who people want running).
Harris - if Biden steps aside right now, Harris would be the presumptive replacement without actually needing to wait until the convention.
Buttigieg - already has national recognition and is a proven effective and persuasive speaker- he literally gets sent on Fox News to debate them because he’s so cogent and fast that none of their talking heads can beat him, and if Biden exits and it does go to an open, televised, convention, he would be well-positioned to invigorate the base
Whitmer - less name recognition for her policies, she is a strong speaker, and doesn’t have the baggage that e.g. Newsom does (although to be fair it’s not Democratic baggage, it’s anti-California Republican rhetoric)
I would 100% support all 3 with no issue what so ever - they are all superb options. If I could just pick between Biden and those 3, I think I’d take Harris or Whitmer not to slight Buttigieg but I’d rather see a women in the role. I’m not sure who would be best, so let’s make the US proud and elect a woman. I’d vote for Newsom but he’d be my 5th choice on this list I’m not his biggest fan but he’s ok. That’s a great list btw I don’t know who else I’d consider.
But how could we realistically get to them? Biden says he is running and how’s that going to change? That’s the issue. Biden is the candidate so he has my support and I do believe in him. If he steps aside, I’ll take what I can get that isn’t the felon.
But how could we realistically get to them? Biden says he is running and how’s that going to change?
By making the larger conversation about “Biden needs to step aside”, rather than being half split between “we need to all align behind Biden”. There’s still 4 months, and the convention hasn’t happened.
And man, how fucking sad would it be (even if it would be very American) for our first woman president to get there by an old white guy dying and she being the default replacement?
I would like a jelly bean tree, in the mean time I’ll stick with what I can get.
Ok, I’ll bite. Name his inadequacies. I will not accept his debate performance as an answer. Because, while it was horrible, he has had plenty of excellent speeches before and after. For example one of the best SOTUs I have heard in my lifetime (I’m old) and his NATO address.
For reference. Listen to the content.
NATO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQTY7nDi10I
SOTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al7ont2noYA
And to contrast and if you don’t mind losing brain cells. Trump Miami. Showed up an hour late. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cg-oo27ny4
Ok, I’ll bite back. The election is going to swing on low-information voters in a handful of states. Coyotino just told you about people who could sway the vote to keep Trump out, but are planning to STAY HOME. They’re going to swing us into fascism.
Biden’s inadequacies:
\
We need all eligible voters to show up and stop Trump. We need a Congress that will outlaw fascist actions rather than further enabling them.
We need something to spark the apathetic potential voters to act to save Democracy because the risk is too great and right now the low-info folks aren’t hearing anything new.
So your comment about moderates not voting because… they do not like either and fascism and Project 2025 are not compelling augments? Reminds me of a friend who told me that he was not voting because it doesn’t matter to him. And them Trump tariffs hurt his business.
Ok your list
#1 You do not think he is winning #2 You do not believe he is capable of responding to Project 2025 because of his debate performance. #3 You’ve got an ageist argument and then connect that to his policy position on escalation management. #4 After a great speech you come away with not feeling good about superficial characteristics #5 You do not think he is winning
“We need something to spark the apathetic potential voters to act to save Democracy because the risk is too great and right now the low-info folks aren’t hearing anything new.”
I am here arguing for the most viable option. Let’s all do our best to help.
I do not agree with everything he has done but his actions have proven to me that he has been an excellent president and is a good person. I also believe he is the only viable candidate we have. Is he old and does he seem old, yes. Will he be able to lead a good and effective administration, he has and he will.
Do you think the Biden administration has been a good one and do you think a future Biden administration will be a good one?
I don’t think you read what I wrote.
Look: The polls and pundits tell me a future Biden administration will only exist in our dreams, so the only choice is to find someone else or let Trump win.
I was thinking we were in a thread that started with:
I don’t want to argue, I mean I admit I did but that’s not really want I was intending. I think you have a valid point of view but I do not see it the way you do.
I see what you are saying and I appreciate that we are both stating our positions. I;m grateful we have a place where we can express ourselves.
You are correct that the thread started that way. I was just saying that I then reframed that as low-info voters who may or may not be moderate. Someone in another thread had talked about some leftists in California who were going t skip voting as a protest to the war in Israel – which won’t matter because California is not up for grabs.
FWIW, I watched Biden’s press conference and was once again amazed as Biden reminded us of all the things he’s done. He’s been a great statesman and exactly the kind of world leader I want our President to be, and it baffles me that so much of the population want to pick a petty know-nothing bully like Trump.
That’s not how mental decline works, my dude. It’s not some steady progression, it happens in fits and episodes. But it only gets worse. Like forgetting that someone you wrote a statement of condolence for is dead, and calling for her at an event (Rep. Wolarski), or thinking that you just had conversations with people who have been dead for years (Mitterrand, Kohl)
If you legitimately have not seen someone go through this kind of mental decline, I am happy for you, because it sucks. My grandmother is getting really bad at this point, and it hurts to watch. But denying it and pretending these are just moments of normal forgetfulness rather than living in the past that is common for people in mental decline, is cruel and irresponsible.
Is he in a really terrible place right now? Doesn’t seem like it. But neither was my grandmother just 2 years ago, and we’re not choosing him for how is is today, we’re choosing him based on how he might be the next 4 years.
I have seen it. More than once.
Biden is one man and it is the Biden administration. We can’t predict the future and if there was a younger stellar dem candidate who could viable take on, ok then. But this is what we have. I’d take a President Harris no problem if it came to it. If Biden can stay the front man and have the right people behind him, which he will, it will be fine.
People had no problem with a straight up psyco like Reagan in dementia as president.
And really let’s say you are right about Biden. Then we get to chose between two people in the same boat. One’s a dangerous narcissist and one is a good man.
Your argument is literally to give up and sit on your hands and just hope and pray that no one notices we’re putting a senile individual into the most powerful job position in the world. Oh, and whatabout Reagan.
The cabinet and administration are not there to Weekend at Bernie’s the President.
Who is no longer in full control of his faculties. Which is a horrible choice. You’re arguing against trying to make that choice something else.
There are, but no matter who anyone says, you’ll write them off for one reason or another.
This is not strategy or sound reasoning, it’s fecklessness. It’s fear of making the wrong choice, so you’d rather walk away from the trolley switch and wash your hands of it. When Biden loses, all the people arguing for him to stay in won’t actually have to take any responsibility for their part in Trump being back in office. I’m sure they’ll just find a way to blame everyone else- probably for “not being on-board” enough (which is exactly why Biden shouldn’t still be running- candidates are supposed to be who people want running).
You don’t know me so do not tell me what I think or would say.
What your viable alternative and how will it be achieved?
Harris - if Biden steps aside right now, Harris would be the presumptive replacement without actually needing to wait until the convention.
Buttigieg - already has national recognition and is a proven effective and persuasive speaker- he literally gets sent on Fox News to debate them because he’s so cogent and fast that none of their talking heads can beat him, and if Biden exits and it does go to an open, televised, convention, he would be well-positioned to invigorate the base
Whitmer - less name recognition for her policies, she is a strong speaker, and doesn’t have the baggage that e.g. Newsom does (although to be fair it’s not Democratic baggage, it’s anti-California Republican rhetoric)
I would 100% support all 3 with no issue what so ever - they are all superb options. If I could just pick between Biden and those 3, I think I’d take Harris or Whitmer not to slight Buttigieg but I’d rather see a women in the role. I’m not sure who would be best, so let’s make the US proud and elect a woman. I’d vote for Newsom but he’d be my 5th choice on this list I’m not his biggest fan but he’s ok. That’s a great list btw I don’t know who else I’d consider.
But how could we realistically get to them? Biden says he is running and how’s that going to change? That’s the issue. Biden is the candidate so he has my support and I do believe in him. If he steps aside, I’ll take what I can get that isn’t the felon.
By making the larger conversation about “Biden needs to step aside”, rather than being half split between “we need to all align behind Biden”. There’s still 4 months, and the convention hasn’t happened.
And man, how fucking sad would it be (even if it would be very American) for our first woman president to get there by an old white guy dying and she being the default replacement?
Question: Could Biden get elected, then at some point decide he’s no longer fit for duty? Would that still make Harris president?