you’ve got a silly idea that Biden isn’t listening to his voters
You think Dem voters support Israels genocide or codifying Trump’s border policies thru executive actions?
Is this one of those things where you look at a poll of “voters” and see ~60% agree with Biden?
For some reason people don’t always realize ~50% of voters are Republicans and will never vote for any Dem.
What Biden is doing isn’t popular with a majority of the people who might vote for him. But yes, the people who will never vote for him like that he’s conservative. It just doesn’t matter because they’re voting trump.
You don’t live in a country that has a strong Left majority.
Debatable, but irreverent to what Dem voters want. The voters who make up the Dem party have a “strong Left majority” as you put it.
I’m saying Biden and the party should cater to the people they have a chance of voting for.
What lifelong Republican voters and current trump supporters want literally doesn’t matter when talking about how Biden can get votes.
Obama passed the first comprehensive health care law, and had a nuclear treaty with Iran that even Israel said was working. Trump, of course dismantled it.
Biden is forgiving student loans, lessening the penalties for marijuana, and building green infrastructure.
Trump has called for nuking Palestine and imprisoning transpeople. Is that the change you’re hoping for?
Maybe this election we can have real change towards neofascism so there won’t even be a next election. Change is always good right? Oh, you wanted to have positive change? The indispensible prerequisite for that to happen is for the GOP to lose.
Yeah I know. I’m not advocating to not vote for the lesser evil. I’m saying that it would be swell to have a non-evil option on the general election ballot who’s not an independent for the first time since before I was born 41 years ago…
You two seem to be somewhat talking at cross purposes.
As far as I can see, what they’re saying is that the Dem candidate needs to apeal to Dem voters and those who could be persuaded to vote Dem, to ensure their vote. If Biden turns enough of them off and they don’t vote he risks losing. On the other hand dyed in the wool Republican voters probably can’t be turned, so there’s no point trying to apeal to them.
You seem to be saying that not voting for Biden, despite him being unpopular, risk letting Trump in. That is also true, and it is vital that Trump is stopped, they’re just pointing out that that is easier if Biden listens to his base, rather than population wide surveys.
Read this guys words and you’ll see he’s just throwing words around trying to stir things up.
I said that the Left doesn’t have an overwhelming majority, and he disagrees. A few lines later he says that the GOP has a lock on 50% of the overall vote.
I think you’re significantly misunderstanding whst they’ve said, or at least I get something entirely different from it.
The two of you seem to actually agree on almost everything, including that the Dems don’t have an overwhelming majority (I can’t see where they’ve said otherwise anyway). You seem to be saying that people should vote Dem regardless of what they’re doing, which they, and I agree with. They’re trying to point out that a) the Dems probably can’t win over solid Rep voters, and that trying to by making policies that would appeal to them risks alienating the Dem base, and more importantly swing voters and b) making policies that appeal to the Dem base and potential swing votes, despite the fact they might further alienate Rep voters is likely to result in a larger voter turnout for them.
A lot of the things Biden is currently doing seem to be aimed at trying to get Republican voters on-side, but are quite unpopular with the Dem base. Precisely because they don’t have a large majority losing any voters could be catastrophic.
The two parties, and their presidential candidates, are fairly evenly balanced in votes at the moment, both with a solidly entrenched core, a periphery of less commited voters, and the swing voters inbetween the sides. The candidate that wins is likely to be the one who loses fewest of their periphery voters and alienates the fewest swing voters. Making policie to try to ‘poach’ voters from the other party’s core is a lost cause, but might cause some of your potential voters to stay home even if they don’t vote Rep.
The issue is some people really support the horrible shit Biden is doing, and if the Dem candidate won’t do it, then they’ll vote Republican.
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
They were just statistically insignificant and Obama had a landslide win that flipped multiple red states and got us the House and Senate.
It’s really really hard to get Dem voters to compromise their morals though, moderate Dems need someone horrible they can stand next to and say “we have to stop them!”.
The issue is it didn’t work in 2016, barely worked in 2020, and by all indications won’t work in 2024.
We know what works. But the DNCs corporate donors would prefer a Republican to progressives. So they donate huge amounts during a primary and by the time it’s the general there’s no way for them to lose.
trump will do it again in fact. Every election he doesn’t win is going to see a 1/6 like event, or at least that’s what we need to be ready for.
Which is why beating him is so important, and why Biden needs to stop caring about what people who will never vote D want, and start caring about the people who will never vote R want.
Because the people who go back and forth between the parties are statistically insignificant.
But you keep jumping around a lot, Everytime I explain one point, you pivot to a new one about why Biden shouldn’t be held to any standards and trump has to be stopped.
I agree trump has to be stopped.
But even from your historical example, the way we do that isn’t running a candidate more conservative than what voters want.
The way we do that so running candidates like Obama and Bill. Not Humphries, Biden, or Hillary.
And now, when the Dem party is running a candidate further than the right than Dem voters want…
The party is running exactly the candidate that the majority of voters want. The “party” picks the candidate only in the sense that the party is the primary voters. To pretend this is not how it works is Trumpian level bullshit.
Yep, most of what trump has wanted is just to be accepted by “the cool kids”.
It’s just he’s a total jackass, so even though they’d take his money, and the Clinton’s showed up at his wedding…
He’s never getting in the club.
Not sure why everyone downvoted me and upvoted you when we said the same thing though
They are probably downvoting you because you’ve got a silly idea that Biden isn’t listening to his voters.
For some reason, many people on the Left seem to think that we are a massive majority. We aren’t.
Trump got almost half the votes in 2016. He’s still polling well today.
You don’t live in a country that has a strong Left majority.
You think Dem voters support Israels genocide or codifying Trump’s border policies thru executive actions?
Is this one of those things where you look at a poll of “voters” and see ~60% agree with Biden?
For some reason people don’t always realize ~50% of voters are Republicans and will never vote for any Dem.
What Biden is doing isn’t popular with a majority of the people who might vote for him. But yes, the people who will never vote for him like that he’s conservative. It just doesn’t matter because they’re voting trump.
Debatable, but irreverent to what Dem voters want. The voters who make up the Dem party have a “strong Left majority” as you put it.
I’m saying Biden and the party should cater to the people they have a chance of voting for.
What lifelong Republican voters and current trump supporters want literally doesn’t matter when talking about how Biden can get votes.
He has no chance of getting their votes.
I hope this makes sense
No, it doesn’t.
Trump and his people are calling for mass arrests in the US and the destruction of Palestine.
In 1968 a lot of voters felt they couldn’t stand having Humphrey as President. They let Nixon win.
You vote for Biden and you can vote for someone else in 2028. You let Trump win and voting might be off the table completely.
We had real change under Obama and Biden.
Obama passed the first comprehensive health care law, and had a nuclear treaty with Iran that even Israel said was working. Trump, of course dismantled it.
Biden is forgiving student loans, lessening the penalties for marijuana, and building green infrastructure.
Trump has called for nuking Palestine and imprisoning transpeople. Is that the change you’re hoping for?
Obama also got rid of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.
I didn’t ask, so don’t tell me that!
[Happy Pride Month!]
Maybe this election we can have real change towards neofascism so there won’t even be a next election. Change is always good right? Oh, you wanted to have positive change? The indispensible prerequisite for that to happen is for the GOP to lose.
Yeah I know. I’m not advocating to not vote for the lesser evil. I’m saying that it would be swell to have a non-evil option on the general election ballot who’s not an independent for the first time since before I was born 41 years ago…
Wait…
So you give an example of when the Dems ran a candidate further to the right than their voters want…
Which resulted in the Republican winning…
And you blame voters?
And now, when the Dem party is running a candidate further than the right than Dem voters want…
You’re already blaming the voters?
You still haven’t realized the solution is running candidates that appeal to voters?
Did you forget Bill Clinton and Barack Obama happened in the middle?
You charismatic candidates who ran progressive campaigns that led to decisive wins?
Lol, that’s what they said about 2016, and 2020…
It’s what you’re saying about 2024…
But next year, next year will definitely be different?
So, you forgot about the January 6 coup attempt?
You two seem to be somewhat talking at cross purposes.
As far as I can see, what they’re saying is that the Dem candidate needs to apeal to Dem voters and those who could be persuaded to vote Dem, to ensure their vote. If Biden turns enough of them off and they don’t vote he risks losing. On the other hand dyed in the wool Republican voters probably can’t be turned, so there’s no point trying to apeal to them.
You seem to be saying that not voting for Biden, despite him being unpopular, risk letting Trump in. That is also true, and it is vital that Trump is stopped, they’re just pointing out that that is easier if Biden listens to his base, rather than population wide surveys.
No.
Read this guys words and you’ll see he’s just throwing words around trying to stir things up.
I said that the Left doesn’t have an overwhelming majority, and he disagrees. A few lines later he says that the GOP has a lock on 50% of the overall vote.
I’m surprised he hasn’t blocked you yet. Givessomefucks likes to do that when people confront him.
I think you’re significantly misunderstanding whst they’ve said, or at least I get something entirely different from it.
The two of you seem to actually agree on almost everything, including that the Dems don’t have an overwhelming majority (I can’t see where they’ve said otherwise anyway). You seem to be saying that people should vote Dem regardless of what they’re doing, which they, and I agree with. They’re trying to point out that a) the Dems probably can’t win over solid Rep voters, and that trying to by making policies that would appeal to them risks alienating the Dem base, and more importantly swing voters and b) making policies that appeal to the Dem base and potential swing votes, despite the fact they might further alienate Rep voters is likely to result in a larger voter turnout for them.
A lot of the things Biden is currently doing seem to be aimed at trying to get Republican voters on-side, but are quite unpopular with the Dem base. Precisely because they don’t have a large majority losing any voters could be catastrophic.
The two parties, and their presidential candidates, are fairly evenly balanced in votes at the moment, both with a solidly entrenched core, a periphery of less commited voters, and the swing voters inbetween the sides. The candidate that wins is likely to be the one who loses fewest of their periphery voters and alienates the fewest swing voters. Making policie to try to ‘poach’ voters from the other party’s core is a lost cause, but might cause some of your potential voters to stay home even if they don’t vote Rep.
The issue is some people really support the horrible shit Biden is doing, and if the Dem candidate won’t do it, then they’ll vote Republican.
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
They were just statistically insignificant and Obama had a landslide win that flipped multiple red states and got us the House and Senate.
It’s really really hard to get Dem voters to compromise their morals though, moderate Dems need someone horrible they can stand next to and say “we have to stop them!”.
The issue is it didn’t work in 2016, barely worked in 2020, and by all indications won’t work in 2024.
We know what works. But the DNCs corporate donors would prefer a Republican to progressives. So they donate huge amounts during a primary and by the time it’s the general there’s no way for them to lose.
Have you got any source for that at all?
Nope.
trump will do it again in fact. Every election he doesn’t win is going to see a 1/6 like event, or at least that’s what we need to be ready for.
Which is why beating him is so important, and why Biden needs to stop caring about what people who will never vote D want, and start caring about the people who will never vote R want.
Because the people who go back and forth between the parties are statistically insignificant.
But you keep jumping around a lot, Everytime I explain one point, you pivot to a new one about why Biden shouldn’t be held to any standards and trump has to be stopped.
I agree trump has to be stopped.
But even from your historical example, the way we do that isn’t running a candidate more conservative than what voters want.
The way we do that so running candidates like Obama and Bill. Not Humphries, Biden, or Hillary.
2020 was the lucky exception, not a new rule.
Given that Biden will be ineligible to run again? Yeah.
Trump has repeatedly tried to come up with reasons and justifications to not adhere to the two term limit described in the Constitution.
The party is running exactly the candidate that the majority of voters want. The “party” picks the candidate only in the sense that the party is the primary voters. To pretend this is not how it works is Trumpian level bullshit.
You should pump the breaks for awhile. You make less and less sense with every wall of ramble you type.