Good on you. It’s always refreshing to hear from Christian folks who have a strong enough moral compass to steer away from (let alone actively support direct opponents of) some of the more zealous or bigoted views which unfortunately seem to be growing stronger in the Christian community as of late.
I say this from the outside looking in, as I’ve never been associated with any church myself, so this viewpoint of mine may just be the result of an increasingly active vocal minority.
But I’m very curious to hear your experience as someone within the community; have you yourself seen growth in these types of zealous or bigoted views in the past several years within the Christian Community? Things like stronger, more vocal, or even unwavering support of anti-abortion or anti-LGBTQ laws/practices?
I’m a United Methodist and former clergy, and the last 5 years have been whiplash.
We’ve spent 50 years trying to make the denomination more inclusive and accepting towards homosexuals, but for some organizational reasons (primarily a heavy-African vote in the worldwide governing body of the church) it’s been difficult, and the more “traditional” wing of the church has been dragging us backwards.
We have our global conference (basically the legislative session of the church) every 4 years. In 2012 it got very heated. In 2016 the debate got downright nasty to the point where they had to calm a special session just to debate homosexuality in 2019 simply so the church could move on with the rest of the conference.
2019 was really, really bad. The traditionalists got their way on every issue.
The biggest blow was changing how church trials worked. As it was, “practicing” homosexuals were barred from the clergy, and officiating over a gay marriage was a de-frockable offense under church law. But that wasn’t that bad in reality, because Methodist Clergy are very educated and overwhelmingly disagreed with the rules, so when it came to a church trial the jury (made up of other clergy) refused to punish. In 2019, they changed the rule to remove clergy’s option to not punish.
The only ray of hope was the recommendation of a path to allow individual churches to leave the church but keep their land. It was basically the admission that the church was going to go through a schism. It looked for all the world that those who wanted to be more inclusive would have to start a new denomination.
But then the weirdest thing happened.
The ultra-conservatives were still mad even though they’d won. They were so mad, in fact, that they wanted to get rid of those who had opposed them. But there was no way to kick out churches who weren’t controlled by Fox News. So they huffed and puffed and got so angry they decided to start their own super-bigoted Republican church anyway. They called it the Global Methodist Church since they figured the rest of the world would follow them and they left the denomination starting in 2021 when the path for disaffiliation opened up. In all, they got about a quarter of the US churches - mostly small rural churches that depended heavily on funding from the larger organization they were leaving…
A few weeks ago the 2024 conference was held. Due to Vivid it was the first real conference we’d had since 2016.
Gay marriage, gay clergy, and accepting homosexuality as being a-OK all passed with over 90% support. Everyone who had voted against it before had either left the denomination or been so repulsed by the fringe actors who had that they changed their position.
Wow. Yeah that sounds like a rough ride, I’m sorry you and so many others were dragged through the coals like that for so long. It sounds like things were at a point where a split like that was probably necessary unfortunately, maybe even entirely unavoidable from the sound of it.
Thanks for sharing your experience, and congratulations on a more unified (and moral) stance on these issues. I hope your church can finally and more easily move forward without the weight of the interference, pressure, and influence these fringe actors had been exercising in the past several years.
I broke down in tears when the changes passed. Just a few years ago we were positive we’d have to leave the denomination to get change, but then the bad actors left instead, so the thousands of congregations “in the middle” that didn’t want to leave their historic denomination didn’t have to, so in the end way more churches are officially accepting of homosexuality.
The new rule for marriage is 2 consenting adults, where it used to be a man and a woman. So we also managed to officially prohibit child marriage in the church. On the US side that was mostly from high school kids getting married because the girlfriend got pregnant. The church will no longer recognize or participate in those marriages.
It also clarifies that clergy are free to perform or refuse to perform any marriage ceremony of 2 consenting adults, so homophobic clergy aren’t required to perform the ceremony. I’m fine with that, because a preacher performing a wedding should support the marriage, and a gay couple should know that the person performing the ceremony is supportive of the union.
I can only imagine the feeling of having such a weight lifted off your shoulders and conscience. It must feel almost like a fresh start, because in a way it is. Or at least that’s how it sounds to me, being able to progress in a meaningful way without such major hindrances.
I’m glad to hear you got to see such a favourable outcome after such a long and turbulent period, and I’m genuinely happy for you and your church, that you get to make progress in making your community better for everyone. It sounds like you all have the best of things to look forward to already, but I wish you all the best anyway.
Good news has been a bit hard to come by lately, so it’s extraordinarily refreshing to hear some for a change. So cheers, and thanks again for sharing.
I’m Christian, but have given them money.
Separating church and state makes better government AND better churches.
Good on you. It’s always refreshing to hear from Christian folks who have a strong enough moral compass to steer away from (let alone actively support direct opponents of) some of the more zealous or bigoted views which unfortunately seem to be growing stronger in the Christian community as of late.
I say this from the outside looking in, as I’ve never been associated with any church myself, so this viewpoint of mine may just be the result of an increasingly active vocal minority.
But I’m very curious to hear your experience as someone within the community; have you yourself seen growth in these types of zealous or bigoted views in the past several years within the Christian Community? Things like stronger, more vocal, or even unwavering support of anti-abortion or anti-LGBTQ laws/practices?
I’m a United Methodist and former clergy, and the last 5 years have been whiplash.
We’ve spent 50 years trying to make the denomination more inclusive and accepting towards homosexuals, but for some organizational reasons (primarily a heavy-African vote in the worldwide governing body of the church) it’s been difficult, and the more “traditional” wing of the church has been dragging us backwards.
We have our global conference (basically the legislative session of the church) every 4 years. In 2012 it got very heated. In 2016 the debate got downright nasty to the point where they had to calm a special session just to debate homosexuality in 2019 simply so the church could move on with the rest of the conference.
2019 was really, really bad. The traditionalists got their way on every issue.
The biggest blow was changing how church trials worked. As it was, “practicing” homosexuals were barred from the clergy, and officiating over a gay marriage was a de-frockable offense under church law. But that wasn’t that bad in reality, because Methodist Clergy are very educated and overwhelmingly disagreed with the rules, so when it came to a church trial the jury (made up of other clergy) refused to punish. In 2019, they changed the rule to remove clergy’s option to not punish.
The only ray of hope was the recommendation of a path to allow individual churches to leave the church but keep their land. It was basically the admission that the church was going to go through a schism. It looked for all the world that those who wanted to be more inclusive would have to start a new denomination.
But then the weirdest thing happened.
The ultra-conservatives were still mad even though they’d won. They were so mad, in fact, that they wanted to get rid of those who had opposed them. But there was no way to kick out churches who weren’t controlled by Fox News. So they huffed and puffed and got so angry they decided to start their own super-bigoted Republican church anyway. They called it the Global Methodist Church since they figured the rest of the world would follow them and they left the denomination starting in 2021 when the path for disaffiliation opened up. In all, they got about a quarter of the US churches - mostly small rural churches that depended heavily on funding from the larger organization they were leaving…
A few weeks ago the 2024 conference was held. Due to Vivid it was the first real conference we’d had since 2016.
Gay marriage, gay clergy, and accepting homosexuality as being a-OK all passed with over 90% support. Everyone who had voted against it before had either left the denomination or been so repulsed by the fringe actors who had that they changed their position.
It’s been a ride.
Wow. Yeah that sounds like a rough ride, I’m sorry you and so many others were dragged through the coals like that for so long. It sounds like things were at a point where a split like that was probably necessary unfortunately, maybe even entirely unavoidable from the sound of it.
Thanks for sharing your experience, and congratulations on a more unified (and moral) stance on these issues. I hope your church can finally and more easily move forward without the weight of the interference, pressure, and influence these fringe actors had been exercising in the past several years.
I broke down in tears when the changes passed. Just a few years ago we were positive we’d have to leave the denomination to get change, but then the bad actors left instead, so the thousands of congregations “in the middle” that didn’t want to leave their historic denomination didn’t have to, so in the end way more churches are officially accepting of homosexuality.
The new rule for marriage is 2 consenting adults, where it used to be a man and a woman. So we also managed to officially prohibit child marriage in the church. On the US side that was mostly from high school kids getting married because the girlfriend got pregnant. The church will no longer recognize or participate in those marriages.
It also clarifies that clergy are free to perform or refuse to perform any marriage ceremony of 2 consenting adults, so homophobic clergy aren’t required to perform the ceremony. I’m fine with that, because a preacher performing a wedding should support the marriage, and a gay couple should know that the person performing the ceremony is supportive of the union.
I can only imagine the feeling of having such a weight lifted off your shoulders and conscience. It must feel almost like a fresh start, because in a way it is. Or at least that’s how it sounds to me, being able to progress in a meaningful way without such major hindrances.
I’m glad to hear you got to see such a favourable outcome after such a long and turbulent period, and I’m genuinely happy for you and your church, that you get to make progress in making your community better for everyone. It sounds like you all have the best of things to look forward to already, but I wish you all the best anyway.
Good news has been a bit hard to come by lately, so it’s extraordinarily refreshing to hear some for a change. So cheers, and thanks again for sharing.
For real. I’m not religious but about the only to make people dislike waking up early on Sunday to go to church more is associating with Congress.