Ukraine has been left exposed on the front lines — running out of ammunition and men — while its energy system now faces an onslaught that is exposing its depleted air defenses.
I don’t think you actually understand the phrase or appreciate its significance in terms of what it means for leadership. Why don’t you actually address the primacy of the point that I made?
Do you consider the President responsible for the outcomes of their tenure or not?
You seem insistent in an interpretation that doesn’t leave Biden culpable for the outcomes of his time as President. But that’s not how leadership works. The buck stops with you when you are in the big seat. Whether you are passing the buck in terms of the outcomes of this four years from Biden to congress, or Biden to the Supreme Court, or Biden to the American people, or Biden to Russia, that’s just not how the world works. A Republican congress wont be voted out of office because they stymied Biden’s efforts: they’ll be rewarded for it. Its Biden’s job to break through these kinds of issues; that’s the role of a President.
Making excuses for Biden, repeatedly, incessantly, it doesn’t change the fact that ultimately this election coming up is a referendum on his time in leadership and what he has to show for it. Biden understand what the phrase means when he said “The Buck stops with me on Afghanistan”, maybe you should take the time to develop that understanding as well.
If the buck stops with Biden on Afghanistan (his words, not ours), does it not also stop with him on Ukraine?
Do you consider the President responsible for the outcomes of their tenure or not?
When congress and the judiciary is working against them? Not.
Are you going to blame Biden for the conservative majority on the Supreme court’s decision in Dobbs v. Jackson as well?
You seem insistent in an interpretation that doesn’t leave Biden culpable for the outcomes of his time as President. But that’s not how leadership works. The buck stops with you when you are in the big seat.
So the separation of powers as outlined in the Constitution is not a thing and Biden has the unilateral power to do whatever he likes. Gotcha.
So Biden confirmed Clarence Thomas because he knew that decades later, he would be president and the president before him would confirm three ultra-conservative justices so that he could avoid culpability when they overthrew Roe v. Wade? Is that what you’re claiming?
Im claiming that Biden spent decades in the senate enabling the radical right’s rise to power. Some of that was from incompetence, some was from anti-Black and anti-arab racism. Some of it was because the neoliberal policies he supports aren’t that different from what ‘fiscal conservatives’ want.
Biden has had a hand in most of the disastrous policies of the last 30 years - from putting sexist pieces of shit in SCOTUS and drastically expanding the prison population, to invading Iraq and drastically expanding the surveillance state.
Of course Reagan and the Bushes deserve a lot the blame. But none of them are currently president, and Biden built his career on bipartisanship - even more than his democratic peers. He was there at every step that set the stage for Trump’s appointments that were the final nails in the coffin
I’ve never been supportive of, you know, "it’s my body, I can do what I want with it.
And now I know you’re dishonest by taking that quote out of context:
I asked Biden what he would do in a second term to protect abortion access at the federal level. “Pass Roe v. Wade as the law of the land,” he said. Democrats would need to win control of the House of Representatives and gain seats in the Senate, but Biden expressed confidence. “A few more elections like we’ve seen taking place in the states” would suffice, he said. “You’re seeing the country changing.” Then, reiterating his position on Roe, he said, “I’ve never been supportive of, you know, ‘It’s my body, I can do what I want with it.’ But I have been supportive of the notion that this is probably the most rational allocation of responsibility that all the major religions have signed on and debated over the last thousand years.”
The context does not make it any better. He is stating his sincerely held belief as a conservative Catholic. He is stating his belief that had guided his policymaking for decades. It’s why he was blindsided by the Dobbs decision. Yes, he supports access to abortion, but as the quote shows, it’s always been more about realpolitik than a sincere belief in the right to abortion
All that’s clear from your response is that you don’t appreciate the role of leadership and how it works.
Leadership doesn’t get to pass on responsibility. It doesn’t matter if its a conservative SC or you don’t have congress in your favor. The deck being stacked against you doesn’t mean you get a pass. What it means is you have to come up with a different way of getting the job done. You have to be clever and strategic and get around obstacles. Every leader has to deal with these things, the job of leadership is to figure out ways to overcome these things. A leader who passes the buck on the responsibility for the outcomes of their tenure is no leader at all. By deferring responsibility, you are making the point that Biden is a weak leader incapable of overcoming adversity. If that’s the case, why should any one vote for them?
You should meditate on that phrase and look at it in historical context. Your desire that Biden not be considered responsible for his tenure is just… its not how the world works. Defending Biden’s weakness isn’t having the effect you think it should, rather, it highlights how ineffectual he’s been as President and that he may not really be qualified for the role.
An edit because I did want to respond to this:
Are you going to blame Biden for the conservative majority on the Supreme court’s decision in Dobbs v. Jackson as well?
Yes absolutely. We should blame Biden, and the Democrats writ large for both the conservative Supreme court and the fact that Dobbs v. Jackson was even allowed to be on the table. I don’t know if you remember, but Biden was vice president in recent history. That’s an incredibly powerful position. He was also a Senator, and the Democrats held a majority in congress for enough time to get a national right to an abortion into congress, but they decided it wasn’t a priority. Democrats are as to blame for the erosion of abortion rights in this country as the conservatives advocating for a christian theocracy. These guys aren’t marvel heroes or sports stars. You don’t need to cheer them on, you need to hold them responsible. They’re employees who’ve failed to take their jobs seriously and get the priorities of their voters into law. If anything, Democrats are more responsible for the current state of abortion rights in this country because they chose to not make them a priority.
and the Democrats held a majority in congress for enough time to get a national right to an abortion into congress,
At what point did pro-choice Democrats hold that majority?
At what point could any of the previous Democratic presidents in the last 30 years have gotten a Supreme Court majority?
You should meditate on that phrase and look at it in historical context.
I gave you the context. The context was that it was said by a president who committed genocide and sat on his ass when it came to most civil rights issues.
Weird that I brought those two things up and you don’t seem to believe the buck stopped with him on them.
I think you are being intentionally obtuse. Like it or not, Biden is going to be held accountable for the outcomes of his time in office. You don’t seem to think they should be held accountable to that standard, but your opinion on this is basically irrelevant, because they will be. Its why they are losing this election and defending them in the way that you are is setting them up for failure. You seem to view the Democrats as victims of circumstance, but that if that’s the case, then why should any one vote for them?
When you are a leader the buck stops with you. The phrase is over 200 years old and has been used in many contexts to describe the finality of responsibility, and how it inevitably lands on the shoulders of a figurehead like a President. You obviously have no appreciation for its significance or how leadership is ultimately responsible for the outcomes of their tenure. Your defense of the indefensible highlights how weak Joe Biden has been as a leader and ultimately weakens any argument for why he should be President again. Blaming Republicans or the SC or anything but Joe Biden for the outcomes of Joe Biden’s presidency is passing the on responsibility of leadership, and in spite of your desire that it be some other way, it just isn’t so.
Okay, that still doesn’t change the fact that he can’t achieve what he can’t achieve. He isn’t a dictator and he doesn’t have magic powers. If that will cost him the election, that really can’t be helped. You might as well blame his inability to time travel.
You are obtuse and not worth the time of answering. You fail to understand real politic and misunderstand the functional role of a president. You live in a fantasy of how you wish things were instead of how they are. I’m ignoring the attempts you make to sideline the primary thrust of this conversation, which is : Is the President responsible for the outcomes of their tenure? I’m not interested in some non-sequitur sidebar conversation you seem interested in having, because you are barely worth my time as it is. We’re going to stay focused.
Biden is responsible for his failures and he’ll be held accountable for them. Pretending that the buck doesn’t stop with the president doesn’t change the fact that ultimately, a president is responsible for the outcomes of government during their tenure. That’s how the world works, in-spite of your desire to live in a fantasy that is otherwise. Because of this, defending Biden’s poor record on outcomes becomes an unconvincing argument on why to support him, and highlights his weakness, broadly, as a leader. Engaging in apologetics does more to damage Biden’s chances than it does to support them. We need Biden to win or we’re beyond fucked, but he has to actually do better. It can’t be in the form of soundbytes or apologetics from the media or his online sycophants.
I don’t think you actually understand the phrase or appreciate its significance in terms of what it means for leadership. Why don’t you actually address the primacy of the point that I made?
Do you consider the President responsible for the outcomes of their tenure or not?
You seem insistent in an interpretation that doesn’t leave Biden culpable for the outcomes of his time as President. But that’s not how leadership works. The buck stops with you when you are in the big seat. Whether you are passing the buck in terms of the outcomes of this four years from Biden to congress, or Biden to the Supreme Court, or Biden to the American people, or Biden to Russia, that’s just not how the world works. A Republican congress wont be voted out of office because they stymied Biden’s efforts: they’ll be rewarded for it. Its Biden’s job to break through these kinds of issues; that’s the role of a President.
Making excuses for Biden, repeatedly, incessantly, it doesn’t change the fact that ultimately this election coming up is a referendum on his time in leadership and what he has to show for it. Biden understand what the phrase means when he said “The Buck stops with me on Afghanistan”, maybe you should take the time to develop that understanding as well.
If the buck stops with Biden on Afghanistan (his words, not ours), does it not also stop with him on Ukraine?
When congress and the judiciary is working against them? Not.
Are you going to blame Biden for the conservative majority on the Supreme court’s decision in Dobbs v. Jackson as well?
So the separation of powers as outlined in the Constitution is not a thing and Biden has the unilateral power to do whatever he likes. Gotcha.
Do me a favor and google “Anita Hill”. Then google what the chair of the senate judiciary does
So Biden confirmed Clarence Thomas because he knew that decades later, he would be president and the president before him would confirm three ultra-conservative justices so that he could avoid culpability when they overthrew Roe v. Wade? Is that what you’re claiming?
Im claiming that Biden spent decades in the senate enabling the radical right’s rise to power. Some of that was from incompetence, some was from anti-Black and anti-arab racism. Some of it was because the neoliberal policies he supports aren’t that different from what ‘fiscal conservatives’ want.
Biden has had a hand in most of the disastrous policies of the last 30 years - from putting sexist pieces of shit in SCOTUS and drastically expanding the prison population, to invading Iraq and drastically expanding the surveillance state.
Weird that you’re blaming Biden for the overturning of Roe v. Wade and not the presidents who appointed the justices who overturned it…
Of course Reagan and the Bushes deserve a lot the blame. But none of them are currently president, and Biden built his career on bipartisanship - even more than his democratic peers. He was there at every step that set the stage for Trump’s appointments that were the final nails in the coffin
And now I know you’re dishonest by taking that quote out of context:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/03/11/joe-biden-profile
A simple Google search showed me the context. If you’re going to be dishonest, do it better.
The context does not make it any better. He is stating his sincerely held belief as a conservative Catholic. He is stating his belief that had guided his policymaking for decades. It’s why he was blindsided by the Dobbs decision. Yes, he supports access to abortion, but as the quote shows, it’s always been more about realpolitik than a sincere belief in the right to abortion
All that’s clear from your response is that you don’t appreciate the role of leadership and how it works.
Leadership doesn’t get to pass on responsibility. It doesn’t matter if its a conservative SC or you don’t have congress in your favor. The deck being stacked against you doesn’t mean you get a pass. What it means is you have to come up with a different way of getting the job done. You have to be clever and strategic and get around obstacles. Every leader has to deal with these things, the job of leadership is to figure out ways to overcome these things. A leader who passes the buck on the responsibility for the outcomes of their tenure is no leader at all. By deferring responsibility, you are making the point that Biden is a weak leader incapable of overcoming adversity. If that’s the case, why should any one vote for them?
You should meditate on that phrase and look at it in historical context. Your desire that Biden not be considered responsible for his tenure is just… its not how the world works. Defending Biden’s weakness isn’t having the effect you think it should, rather, it highlights how ineffectual he’s been as President and that he may not really be qualified for the role.
An edit because I did want to respond to this:
Yes absolutely. We should blame Biden, and the Democrats writ large for both the conservative Supreme court and the fact that Dobbs v. Jackson was even allowed to be on the table. I don’t know if you remember, but Biden was vice president in recent history. That’s an incredibly powerful position. He was also a Senator, and the Democrats held a majority in congress for enough time to get a national right to an abortion into congress, but they decided it wasn’t a priority. Democrats are as to blame for the erosion of abortion rights in this country as the conservatives advocating for a christian theocracy. These guys aren’t marvel heroes or sports stars. You don’t need to cheer them on, you need to hold them responsible. They’re employees who’ve failed to take their jobs seriously and get the priorities of their voters into law. If anything, Democrats are more responsible for the current state of abortion rights in this country because they chose to not make them a priority.
At what point did pro-choice Democrats hold that majority?
At what point could any of the previous Democratic presidents in the last 30 years have gotten a Supreme Court majority?
I gave you the context. The context was that it was said by a president who committed genocide and sat on his ass when it came to most civil rights issues.
Weird that I brought those two things up and you don’t seem to believe the buck stopped with him on them.
I think you are being intentionally obtuse. Like it or not, Biden is going to be held accountable for the outcomes of his time in office. You don’t seem to think they should be held accountable to that standard, but your opinion on this is basically irrelevant, because they will be. Its why they are losing this election and defending them in the way that you are is setting them up for failure. You seem to view the Democrats as victims of circumstance, but that if that’s the case, then why should any one vote for them?
When you are a leader the buck stops with you. The phrase is over 200 years old and has been used in many contexts to describe the finality of responsibility, and how it inevitably lands on the shoulders of a figurehead like a President. You obviously have no appreciation for its significance or how leadership is ultimately responsible for the outcomes of their tenure. Your defense of the indefensible highlights how weak Joe Biden has been as a leader and ultimately weakens any argument for why he should be President again. Blaming Republicans or the SC or anything but Joe Biden for the outcomes of Joe Biden’s presidency is passing the on responsibility of leadership, and in spite of your desire that it be some other way, it just isn’t so.
What he will be held accountable for and what he is able to achieve are two different things.
And I notice you didn’t answer my question of when the Democrats had a pro-choice majority.
Hes not going to be President is whats going to happen.
Okay, that still doesn’t change the fact that he can’t achieve what he can’t achieve. He isn’t a dictator and he doesn’t have magic powers. If that will cost him the election, that really can’t be helped. You might as well blame his inability to time travel.
Why are you evading my question?
You are obtuse and not worth the time of answering. You fail to understand real politic and misunderstand the functional role of a president. You live in a fantasy of how you wish things were instead of how they are. I’m ignoring the attempts you make to sideline the primary thrust of this conversation, which is : Is the President responsible for the outcomes of their tenure? I’m not interested in some non-sequitur sidebar conversation you seem interested in having, because you are barely worth my time as it is. We’re going to stay focused.
Biden is responsible for his failures and he’ll be held accountable for them. Pretending that the buck doesn’t stop with the president doesn’t change the fact that ultimately, a president is responsible for the outcomes of government during their tenure. That’s how the world works, in-spite of your desire to live in a fantasy that is otherwise. Because of this, defending Biden’s poor record on outcomes becomes an unconvincing argument on why to support him, and highlights his weakness, broadly, as a leader. Engaging in apologetics does more to damage Biden’s chances than it does to support them. We need Biden to win or we’re beyond fucked, but he has to actually do better. It can’t be in the form of soundbytes or apologetics from the media or his online sycophants.
People want the government to operate without opposition. Almost like in a… one-party state?
Like Russia, with its de-facto one-party state.