It’s fine I guess, I’m not a Russian or Chinese shill lmao. I guess I was technically a social democrat, then I thought humanity would be okay in small tribal communes, but now I think humanity should go extinct in order to save the remaining animals we haven’t already driven to extinction. For sciences sake.
So you do realize that’s worse than Hitler right? Your “noble cause” requires humanity to be exterminated, Hitler just wanted a “perfect race” of humans. Even if it’s not by your hand or directed by you, you want the elimination of the entire human species.
There are some days where I’m in that camp too lol
Yeah I don’t think it should be an extermination, I know there are others like me called the voluntary extinction movement or something. I think intelligent people can see the writing on the wall that we’ve passed an important climate tipping point in 2023, I’m lucky I didn’t already have kids, but I’m getting a vasectomy.
Humanity has driven 70% of all species to extinction in the 250,000 years we’ve been around. 150 species a day. How many megafauna did we permanently erase before we even developed the written word? I think if we burn ourselves out before we spread to other planets or solar systems, said places are lucky.
That’s the easy way out. Please stick around and help the rest of us try to steer humanity in the right direction. Help the moral arc of the universe bend a little faster. It’s hard work, and most of us won’t see much of a return. But long-term, let’s hope that humanity can.
To clarify: I’m a biologist. The perspective you’ve taken is basically “Noble Savage” but for animals. Animals are pushed to extinction all the time. Yes, we’re incredibly good at it, and we’re good at coming up with highfalutin reasons for killing things, but look at chimps, ants, dolphins…nature is brutal. It sucks to be most animals. Say a habitat changes, and a species “needs” to move into an adjacent similar habitat that’s already occupied by one or more species exploiting those resources? Extinction of something is pretty likely. That’s all very much an oversimplification, of course, but this is a lemmy comment.
If we found an organism that drives 150 species extinct a day what would we do with it? Put aside your human exceptionalism for a second and think about it.
That’s entirely my point though: we can’t reason with a deadly virus, but we can with most humans. Or at least some humans. OK maybe a few. The point is, I don’t think it’s logical to throw in the towel.
That isn’t human exceptionalism in my view, either: because I don’t believe we’re inherently special animals when it comes to how we treat the environment. My point is that most animals inherently exploit resources, and drive others to extinction. We just managed to make guns and power tools and propaganda. Once humans are gone, we have no reason to think that any species that manages to start some technologically advanced civilization will be any better. So either we eradicate all biological life to ensure that it doesn’t eradicate biological life…or we try to improve humanity, because despite things, we can often be reasoned with. Humanity has gotten better, even though it hasn’t improved enough, when looking at human civilization over the last few thousand years. That’s my point: not that we don’t deserve calamity, but that we can - if we fight hard enough - try to steer our own species toward a better future for everyone.
Who knows though, maybe if humanity is gone the bonobos will rise up to take our place. They’re pretty chill, all things considered.
There are no organisms to compare with how destructive/exploitive humans are to the other species/resources around them. It makes more sense to compare humanity to extinction events like super volcanoes and large meteor impacts. And we’re not even through the worst of the climate catastrophe that we’re still accelerating into, let along slowing or reversing.
I respect your take, and I appreciate your well meaning.
Thanks, I respect your take too. I fully understand that I’m an optimist, and will desperately cling to any shred of hope we have. Not a position everyone holds, and I don’t hold it against anyone to not have hope for humanity’s future, as much as it conflicts with my own thoughts. In any case, I hope you have a good one! Thanks for a good discussion.
And just for the sake of science: do you have an opinion on NATO?
Do you have an opinion on anything I said or just insinuations about my agenda?
It’s fine I guess, I’m not a Russian or Chinese shill lmao. I guess I was technically a social democrat, then I thought humanity would be okay in small tribal communes, but now I think humanity should go extinct in order to save the remaining animals we haven’t already driven to extinction. For sciences sake.
So you do realize that’s worse than Hitler right? Your “noble cause” requires humanity to be exterminated, Hitler just wanted a “perfect race” of humans. Even if it’s not by your hand or directed by you, you want the elimination of the entire human species.
There are some days where I’m in that camp too lol
Yeah I don’t think it should be an extermination, I know there are others like me called the voluntary extinction movement or something. I think intelligent people can see the writing on the wall that we’ve passed an important climate tipping point in 2023, I’m lucky I didn’t already have kids, but I’m getting a vasectomy.
Humanity has driven 70% of all species to extinction in the 250,000 years we’ve been around. 150 species a day. How many megafauna did we permanently erase before we even developed the written word? I think if we burn ourselves out before we spread to other planets or solar systems, said places are lucky.
That’s the easy way out. Please stick around and help the rest of us try to steer humanity in the right direction. Help the moral arc of the universe bend a little faster. It’s hard work, and most of us won’t see much of a return. But long-term, let’s hope that humanity can.
To clarify: I’m a biologist. The perspective you’ve taken is basically “Noble Savage” but for animals. Animals are pushed to extinction all the time. Yes, we’re incredibly good at it, and we’re good at coming up with highfalutin reasons for killing things, but look at chimps, ants, dolphins…nature is brutal. It sucks to be most animals. Say a habitat changes, and a species “needs” to move into an adjacent similar habitat that’s already occupied by one or more species exploiting those resources? Extinction of something is pretty likely. That’s all very much an oversimplification, of course, but this is a lemmy comment.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111310 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-it-comes-waging-war-ants-humans-have-lot-common-180972169/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
The hope I have is our intelligence. The fact that you recognize this existential threat is more than a badger is capable of.
If we found an organism that drives 150 species extinct a day what would we do with it? Put aside your human exceptionalism for a second and think about it.
That’s entirely my point though: we can’t reason with a deadly virus, but we can with most humans. Or at least some humans. OK maybe a few. The point is, I don’t think it’s logical to throw in the towel.
That isn’t human exceptionalism in my view, either: because I don’t believe we’re inherently special animals when it comes to how we treat the environment. My point is that most animals inherently exploit resources, and drive others to extinction. We just managed to make guns and power tools and propaganda. Once humans are gone, we have no reason to think that any species that manages to start some technologically advanced civilization will be any better. So either we eradicate all biological life to ensure that it doesn’t eradicate biological life…or we try to improve humanity, because despite things, we can often be reasoned with. Humanity has gotten better, even though it hasn’t improved enough, when looking at human civilization over the last few thousand years. That’s my point: not that we don’t deserve calamity, but that we can - if we fight hard enough - try to steer our own species toward a better future for everyone.
Who knows though, maybe if humanity is gone the bonobos will rise up to take our place. They’re pretty chill, all things considered.
There are no organisms to compare with how destructive/exploitive humans are to the other species/resources around them. It makes more sense to compare humanity to extinction events like super volcanoes and large meteor impacts. And we’re not even through the worst of the climate catastrophe that we’re still accelerating into, let along slowing or reversing.
I respect your take, and I appreciate your well meaning.
Thanks, I respect your take too. I fully understand that I’m an optimist, and will desperately cling to any shred of hope we have. Not a position everyone holds, and I don’t hold it against anyone to not have hope for humanity’s future, as much as it conflicts with my own thoughts. In any case, I hope you have a good one! Thanks for a good discussion.