So what’s your alternative? I’ve lived in planned economy during the socialist era, and it wasn’t exactly great. You had to have friends telling you when shipments of toilet paper or food would arrive and make it early to the shop - otherwise you got nothing, because someone in the central planning office fucked up again.
lol Telling a survivor of the Soviet Union that “we should do communism” is hilariously tone deaf.
Communism is not a logical system. Sure, the ideals of communism sound great. But any system that claims it exists for the common good, while also putting near absolute power into the hands of any party, is naive at best.
Hierarchy doesn’t work. Even if it’s “only for a short transition period.” Communism relies on a group of people to set up systems that work “for the greater good,” and then it relies on those people to willingly relinquish power when the “common good” system is in place.
And that’s where it’s failed every goddamn time. Because putting people in power over others is insane. Expecting them to hand over their nearly unchecked power is beyond insane. It’s stupid.
Hierarchy doesn’t work. Even if it’s “only for a short transition period.”
I agree. That’s why we shouldn’t bother with state socialism and should go straight to communism like I said.
Communism relies on a group of people to set up systems that work “for the greater good,” and then it relies on those people to willingly relinquish power when the “common good” system is in place.
It’s not nearly that straightforward. The anarchists and socialists could 100% claim that victory for themselves. If anything, didn’t the anarchist CNT actually launch and drive the entire plot? It’s been a while since I’ve read up on it. But, as I recall, if anything it was an anarchist syndicalist revolution more than a communist one.
Although, in the end, socialist principles were in play. Which falls under anarchism, socialism, and communism. Not just necessarily communist ones. I mean, things aren’t so cut and dry in practice. Workers and peasants rose up, took control of their factories and lands. From the unions, they seized control. Which is exactly in line with anarcho-syndicalism.
My point is, it’s not as straightforward as you’re implying. Anarchists claim Catalonia as a victory, socialists, communists…and, in the end, it was a union between these factions to fight fascism.
And in the end of the Revolution, the communists betrayed the Revolution. So…
Or maybe we could work a unified coalition of voters around the implementation of a carbon tax, incremented over a period of years, to align those incentives?
Capitalism won’t allow us any means to solve the climate crisis unless their motives for profit somehow magically aligned with the climate motive.
Capitalism is killing us all. And they’re happily watching us fight amongst ourselves over our own “carbon footprint.”
Break out the guillotines, burn down the banks, upend the system. We don’t have any more time for this shit.
So what’s your alternative? I’ve lived in planned economy during the socialist era, and it wasn’t exactly great. You had to have friends telling you when shipments of toilet paper or food would arrive and make it early to the shop - otherwise you got nothing, because someone in the central planning office fucked up again.
The alternative is a cooperation based economy, rather than a competition based one.
You know, like how the very basics of society work. After all, without cooperation society would never exist.
For the record, when and where?
Hungary, back in the Kádár era. According to my parents, it was way worse before, back in the Rákosi days.
This is a false dichotomy. Also, in the case you haven’t noticed, this sub is part of a solarpunk server. We want solarpunk :)
Ah, so that’s what the slrpnk is! Still find lemmy weird at times.
Instead of socialism, we should do communism
lol Telling a survivor of the Soviet Union that “we should do communism” is hilariously tone deaf.
Communism is not a logical system. Sure, the ideals of communism sound great. But any system that claims it exists for the common good, while also putting near absolute power into the hands of any party, is naive at best.
Hierarchy doesn’t work. Even if it’s “only for a short transition period.” Communism relies on a group of people to set up systems that work “for the greater good,” and then it relies on those people to willingly relinquish power when the “common good” system is in place.
And that’s where it’s failed every goddamn time. Because putting people in power over others is insane. Expecting them to hand over their nearly unchecked power is beyond insane. It’s stupid.
Most old people on ex-soviet countries liked it way more than capitalism. If you really are from such place, ask your gramps about shock therapy.
China is literally on the process of surpassing the west right now…
I agree. That’s why we shouldn’t bother with state socialism and should go straight to communism like I said.
It didn’t rely on that in revolutionary catalonia
It’s not nearly that straightforward. The anarchists and socialists could 100% claim that victory for themselves. If anything, didn’t the anarchist CNT actually launch and drive the entire plot? It’s been a while since I’ve read up on it. But, as I recall, if anything it was an anarchist syndicalist revolution more than a communist one.
Although, in the end, socialist principles were in play. Which falls under anarchism, socialism, and communism. Not just necessarily communist ones. I mean, things aren’t so cut and dry in practice. Workers and peasants rose up, took control of their factories and lands. From the unions, they seized control. Which is exactly in line with anarcho-syndicalism.
My point is, it’s not as straightforward as you’re implying. Anarchists claim Catalonia as a victory, socialists, communists…and, in the end, it was a union between these factions to fight fascism.
And in the end of the Revolution, the communists betrayed the Revolution. So…
preach on
Or maybe we could work a unified coalition of voters around the implementation of a carbon tax, incremented over a period of years, to align those incentives?
Lets give the oligarchs another 200 tears. Surely they’ll do the right thing.
Wake the fuck up. This system is rotten to the bones. Our freedom exists as long as it is in line with their profit. Smoke and fucking mirrors.
VOOOOTE HARDER I’M SOOO VOOOOTING NOW
Fucking idealistic bullshit, burn the system
Because burning down the system and starting from scratch has such a great track record and certainly isnt idealistic…
Actually yes, most of the modern world you’re living in was made with violent change
Burning down the system is starting from scratch is the reason why you can even vote in the first place.