Since you’ve rejected the idea of actually computing the involved countries’ industrial capacity so we can have a conversation grounded in reality, I’m happy to just throw anecdotes at you.
Russian airplanes are hitting the edges of their none-of-our-internal-industry-can-maintain-them safe flying parameters. For the rest of the world, it’s not difficult to keep the planes in the air, and it’s a huge deal when one suffers a malfunction. In Russia, serious air accidents are about to become commonplace.
I’d rather have all-imported steel and working airplanes than domestic steel and broken planes. Gimme another?
I like how you have to resort to future casting from a WaPo article as opposed to just leaving the content of that propaganda rag to stand on it’s own though. Also, is your point that the West is engaged in collective punishment of civilians through sanctions? Because as the article you referenced says.
“Of course sanctions affect flight safety,” said Russian aviation analyst Andrei Menshenin in an interview. “They can’t not affect it.”
It’s really shocking how your reasoning works. The USA, the country with the unilateral power to collectively punish nearly 80% of the world’s human population can’t produce healthy aircraft. Meanwhile, the civilian population of Russia purchases those planes on false USian promises of quality, and then the USA enacts collective punishment on those civilians by denying them the ability to buy parts for the US made aircraft which are made like garbage, and you think that’s evidence that Russia is not doing well? You even put it up against literally the ability to make steel in one of the world’s two dominant historical steel centers (Germany is the other one).
Again, you just can’t figure out how to find anything that doesn’t immediately reflect terribly on the USA. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/us/texas-power-grid-winter-storm.html The richest country in the history of the world is faring about as well as Russia under the strongest of collective punishment sanctions.
That’s Texas, man. Don’t hold us responsible for Texas. They’re on a whole separate power grid from the whole rest of the country, and they’re being led by absolute maniacs who aren’t good at anything.
If there’s one thing I can count on being reminded of any time I turn on any TV news channel, it’s that there have been no instances of anyone marching on the US capital to overthrow the elected leader in recent memory.
Ha. Touché. Although in fairness, Russia had quite a lot to do with giving us Trump in the first place. Y’all weren’t happy enough with this style of governance in your own country, so you had to share it with us. Hooray for us both.
Ah right, I forgot that long section in the Mueller report about how Vladimir Putin employed a crack team of KGB posting mercenaries to edit the Facebook page containing the only surviving copy of the US constitution to insert that bit about “the electoral college” while no one was looking.
My brother I offered to debate you on factual terms and you said no I wanna construct narratives. I literally told you, that’s going to be a waste of time because it’s just us shouting narratives at each other.
I can point out the broken planes and broken heating systems. You can point out the shut-down steel plant and Germany’s industrial sector dropping by 2% in 2023. None of it means anything. It’s just little data points. But you chose this silly rhetorical environment, not me.
Oh, also, I’m interested in your explanation for this: When everything kicked off, Russia simply kept any airliners it had leased, effectively stealing them from the West. That’s a big part of why they’re fucked on maintenance, because any goodwill they might have had to get some help keeping them in the air is permanently gone. The West is still examining the legal options for confiscating frozen Russian sanction-money and using it to fund the war, but it hasn’t done so yet. Why not? How would you compare and contrast these two actions (assuming that you acknowledge them both as reality)?
So my point in contrasting those two situation is that the vast majority of that money is still sitting there, frozen, and actually “stealing” it is still considered a big deal 2 years in, with a lot of debate about when and how to go about it through legal means and whether to do it at all. Whereas with the planes, it was just right away “yoink they’re ours now.”
One of my other interlocutors said, more or less, that of course they can’t take the sanctions money completely, because it would be such a blatant theft that no one would ever trust the West again. Which, I don’t think that’s completely a wrong take on it, but then… what about the planes? How does that fit into that? That was my point.
The West stole 300 billion dollars and imposed illegal “sanctions”, after which Russia decided not to return a few planes; quite a difference in scale. And yes, “freezing” money is still theft – if you steal something and refuse to return it, “I promise I won’t do anything with it” is not a valid excuse
So if someone else breaks the law first (sanctions), it’s permissible to ignore the law in your dealings with them going forward (keeping the planes). Yes?
(Edit: I don’t agree with that statement in general; I’m asking whether you agree with that statement, because it sounds like that’s what you’re saying.)
Since you’ve rejected the idea of actually computing the involved countries’ industrial capacity so we can have a conversation grounded in reality, I’m happy to just throw anecdotes at you.
Russian airplanes are hitting the edges of their none-of-our-internal-industry-can-maintain-them safe flying parameters. For the rest of the world, it’s not difficult to keep the planes in the air, and it’s a huge deal when one suffers a malfunction. In Russia, serious air accidents are about to become commonplace.
I’d rather have all-imported steel and working airplanes than domestic steel and broken planes. Gimme another?
Have you even heard of the Boeing 737? There’s an entire wikipedia entry just on one model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boeing_737
I like how you have to resort to future casting from a WaPo article as opposed to just leaving the content of that propaganda rag to stand on it’s own though. Also, is your point that the West is engaged in collective punishment of civilians through sanctions? Because as the article you referenced says.
It’s really shocking how your reasoning works. The USA, the country with the unilateral power to collectively punish nearly 80% of the world’s human population can’t produce healthy aircraft. Meanwhile, the civilian population of Russia purchases those planes on false USian promises of quality, and then the USA enacts collective punishment on those civilians by denying them the ability to buy parts for the US made aircraft which are made like garbage, and you think that’s evidence that Russia is not doing well? You even put it up against literally the ability to make steel in one of the world’s two dominant historical steel centers (Germany is the other one).
You’re a hoot.
Oh, also fix your heating system.
Again, you just can’t figure out how to find anything that doesn’t immediately reflect terribly on the USA. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/us/texas-power-grid-winter-storm.html The richest country in the history of the world is faring about as well as Russia under the strongest of collective punishment sanctions.
That’s Texas, man. Don’t hold us responsible for Texas. They’re on a whole separate power grid from the whole rest of the country, and they’re being led by absolute maniacs who aren’t good at anything.
But we should keep it in perspective – no one from our military suddenly announcing they were going to overthrow the leader and marched on the capital. The worst Texas did in this century was reject our electrical grid and power-outage a few of their citizens to death.
If there’s one thing I can count on being reminded of any time I turn on any TV news channel, it’s that there have been no instances of anyone marching on the US capital to overthrow the elected leader in recent memory.
Ha. Touché. Although in fairness, Russia had quite a lot to do with giving us Trump in the first place. Y’all weren’t happy enough with this style of governance in your own country, so you had to share it with us. Hooray for us both.
Ah right, I forgot that long section in the Mueller report about how Vladimir Putin employed a crack team of KGB posting mercenaries to edit the Facebook page containing the only surviving copy of the US constitution to insert that bit about “the electoral college” while no one was looking.
The National Interest: How the Media Got Russiagate Wrong
Jacob Siegel: A Guide to Understanding the Hoax of the Century
Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away
“Hey bro I’m gonna go shoot up my neighbor’s house.”
“Um… I’m gonna stop fixing your lawnmower for you that I manufactured for you.”
“COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT my kids will suffer”
Ah the false equivalency of the unreasonable metaphor. What a useful technique to avoid your rhetorical failings.
My brother I offered to debate you on factual terms and you said no I wanna construct narratives. I literally told you, that’s going to be a waste of time because it’s just us shouting narratives at each other.
I can point out the broken planes and broken heating systems. You can point out the shut-down steel plant and Germany’s industrial sector dropping by 2% in 2023. None of it means anything. It’s just little data points. But you chose this silly rhetorical environment, not me.
Oh, also, I’m interested in your explanation for this: When everything kicked off, Russia simply kept any airliners it had leased, effectively stealing them from the West. That’s a big part of why they’re fucked on maintenance, because any goodwill they might have had to get some help keeping them in the air is permanently gone. The West is still examining the legal options for confiscating frozen Russian sanction-money and using it to fund the war, but it hasn’t done so yet. Why not? How would you compare and contrast these two actions (assuming that you acknowledge them both as reality)?
you mean like the 300 billion dollars the US effectively stole from Russia?
300 billion is the worldwide total, not the US total.
So my point in contrasting those two situation is that the vast majority of that money is still sitting there, frozen, and actually “stealing” it is still considered a big deal 2 years in, with a lot of debate about when and how to go about it through legal means and whether to do it at all. Whereas with the planes, it was just right away “yoink they’re ours now.”
One of my other interlocutors said, more or less, that of course they can’t take the sanctions money completely, because it would be such a blatant theft that no one would ever trust the West again. Which, I don’t think that’s completely a wrong take on it, but then… what about the planes? How does that fit into that? That was my point.
The West stole 300 billion dollars and imposed illegal “sanctions”, after which Russia decided not to return a few planes; quite a difference in scale. And yes, “freezing” money is still theft – if you steal something and refuse to return it, “I promise I won’t do anything with it” is not a valid excuse
So if someone else breaks the law first (sanctions), it’s permissible to ignore the law in your dealings with them going forward (keeping the planes). Yes?
(Edit: I don’t agree with that statement in general; I’m asking whether you agree with that statement, because it sounds like that’s what you’re saying.)