While we can be pretty confident that Reddit has its own motivations (i.e. self-interest) for fighting these lawsuits, this is still a good news story for pirates.

  • @jeffw@lemmy.world
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    22710 months ago

    Food for thought: Lemmy instance admins probably can’t afford $800 an hour corporate attorneys to fight off subpoenas.

    • Deceptichum
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      9410 months ago

      Food for though: In the US judges have ruled on multiple occasions that an IP address doesn’t actually prove what individual engaged in the act.

      • Midnight Wolf
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        7910 months ago

        Might I direct you to the huge flaming catastrophe of bullshit known as “the police don’t give a fuck lol”. All they need to do is make it difficult, costly and time consuming to win and fuck you once you get hit with charges. And would you look at that, the US legal system specializes in all 3 of those! How convenient.

        • dtc
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          10 months ago

          Police can arrest you, but they don’t run the courts.

          Ie you get brought in on bogus charges and if the only evidence is a number that isn’t admissable as evidence you would likely see a mistrial.

      • BolexForSoup
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        10 months ago

        Doesn’t matter, these are unpaid volunteers standing up instances. Most, if not all, have no desire to fight that battle on their own dime.

        • Deceptichum
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          510 months ago

          That’s why it does matter.

          Even if they get the IP addrsss from an instance, they can’t use it for anything.

            • Deceptichum
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              210 months ago

              It kinda does if a judge has decided that an IP address does not identify who the offender was and thus is not enough evidence to bring a case against someone.

              • BolexForSoup
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                10 months ago

                I feel like I don’t need to explain to folks around here that companies will lawyer up and basically use the legal system to harass and intimidate regardless if they have standing or not if they think you are small enough to be bullied into stopping a behavior. Which I assure you your average instance admin is.

        • @Trollception@lemmy.world
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          110 months ago

          They sure as hell will find money for an attorney if they are being sued for 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars.

          • @fidodo@lemmy.world
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            610 months ago

            They’ll need one but that doesn’t mean they will be able to afford one. The point of these lawsuits is to intimidate, even if they don’t win, if people see lives ruined because of the cost to defend, they’ll be scared into not pirating. This is a fear campaign.

          • BolexForSoup
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            10 months ago

            The sad reality is no matter how winnable your case is, companies can still bury you for years and consume every free moment of your life and then some. For many people, these court battles become their entire life for several years. It can cost them everything.

      • Kaldo
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        210 months ago

        And yet they still want them, so there must be more to the story. I also don’t understand why since I have dynamic IP address in EU, unless they can match the ownership to a person at any given time in the past its not useful info.

    • Skelectus
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      4210 months ago

      Sure, but that’s assuming the logs contain your ip in the first place.

      • Midnight Wolf
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        2410 months ago

        MFW I went to upvote but couldn’t because “error: VPN blocked” 😑

        • @Hubi@feddit.de
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          2110 months ago

          Huh, I exclusively browse Lemmy through a VPN and I’ve never seen that one.

          • @parachaye@lemmy.world
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            710 months ago

            That would probably be because your instance is different. Lemmy.world has recently blocked VPN traffic apparently because of bad actors uploading CSAM behind VPN. I also had issues with Lemmy with my VPN this week and either need to split tunnel or need to browse Lemmy as view-only.

            • Rustmilian
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              10 months ago

              Those bad actors are really stupid, a VPN isn’t going to protect them. You’re not magically anonymous behind a VPN, and such material is obviously going to attract the attention of very skilled cyber security experts & law enforcements.
              Idiots doing crimes never understand basic OpSec.

      • Chozo
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        710 months ago

        That doesn’t help instance admins at all, though.

        • Skelectus
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          10 months ago

          It helps admins help you stay anonymous by relieving them from having to cover for you.

          • BolexForSoup
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            10 months ago

            I am not going to thank the unpaid volunteers who make the fediverse possible by getting them C&D letters/legal threats.

            • Skelectus
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              110 months ago

              Well I appreciate that. But simply discussing piracy should be okay.

          • Chozo
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            110 months ago

            Not really, though. If they’re ordered to turn over IPs, they’ll turn over IPs. Whether those are legit or VPN IPs is another story, but the burden placed on the instance admin doesn’t really change much.

      • RBG
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        3610 months ago

        If that is really how you do it, you won’t need to fry it, it will happen soon enough by itself.

        • @Cinner@lemmy.worldB
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          1210 months ago

          Seriously. Lemmy is a house made of patchwork quilt, with a bit of pine sap here and there to steady the few boards.

    • Illecors
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      2810 months ago

      Would be a real shame if my instance’s logrotate was set to, say, only keep a few days of webserver logs. Real shame.

      Good luck establishing precedent with that!

    • Rustmilian
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      10 months ago

      Oh. They sued an instance? 😱
      Anyway… here’s another 5 hosted in Russia, or a country where piracy is legal, or just don’t give a fuck.

      • @t0fr@lemmy.ca
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        710 months ago

        ok but what if in losing the suit, they must give up the logs and IPs?

        Before they go under?

        like the instance and the people that discussed piracy will be hurt

        and it will put fear in others

        • Rustmilian
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          10 months ago

          Not all instances keep logs…
          Some intentionally discard them, look into the policys of the instance you’re signing up to.
          All your comments and posts are hosted on your parent instance then shared to the federated instances.
          Some instances don’t even let you sign up with an email or make it optional.
          Lemmy.world keeps logs, but much more controversial instances often don’t.
          Also it’s much more complex, because you have to think about the scope of the potential lawsuit as well as the given evidence that a user is actually sharing the material infringing on their copyright; which will not be a large amount of the user base. They can’t simply sue a user for having an account, the user has to actively be sharing infringing material.

          • @ex_06@slrpnk.net
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            210 months ago

            And, to be fair, a gofundme for stuff like this often gets full very fast

            If the community is big enough to get sued it’s also big enough to spread a link for funding, easy